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Old 4 April 2020, 03:24 AM   #5011
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So for some of you guys that questioned why I don’t trust the mainstream media especially the New York Times or the Washington Post I give you this article below. I find it interesting nobody has posted it here yet. So you have these people at universities that come up with the modeling and then they give it to Dr. Fauci and Dr. Birx. They then in turn report to the president and the vice president as well as his Coronavirus task force. They then make their decisions based upon that. Well as you are remember and you’re welcome to look back at the beginning of this thread they were predicting the possibility of 3.5 million dead Americans from this pandemic. Then they reduced it down several times to now we are at 100,000 to 240,000 as of this past Wednesday if I recall. Now the same people that create the models and report to our two good doctors have under the table sleazed their way to the Washington post to report that the White House not the doctors themselves are way off on the current predictions of 100,000 to 240,000 deaths. Note, and this is very typical of the Washington post, that the people telling the paper about this are unnamed sources. There’s a big surprise. I’m not a conspiracy theorist people but something doesn’t smell right here. The fact that the Washington post would slam the White House doesn’t surprise me but look at how they are delivering this information now. There is no way around this but something is wrong.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/ex...te/ar-BB1263eT

https://www.washingtonpost.com/healt...aths-estimate/
Agree 100%. My prediction of the future (really not a prediction because any one with an objective point of view already sees it coming): A lot less people die, SOMEONE overreacted and caused an economic collapse. A lot more people die, SOMEONE did nothing and caused their deaths. Tails I win, heads, you lose...
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Old 4 April 2020, 03:27 AM   #5012
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We all want it to go back to normal. Nobody doesn't want that. But there is no way to do that right now with the number of infected people still out there who can spread this virus. I understand the fears about breaking the economy, but at a time like this I feel the bigger fear right now is breaking the healthcare system and breaking those people delivering care. .
If we wait too long there may be no money to pay for the health care system, so I disagree, the economy comes first we simply can not shut down for several months.

We all appreciate the work of the hospital staff and their selfless dedication and on a personal basis my thoughts are for your daughter. The PPE situation is a disgrace.
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Old 4 April 2020, 03:27 AM   #5013
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Pretty soon if they keep this isolation crap up, people will revolt. It’s only natural to want to go out and live. It’s been 3 weeks and I’m anxious as hell. It’s crazy to tell a whole country to self quarantine and expect such. People are people and we are our own worst enemies.
I say get the f over it and do your part. The sooner we do this, the sooner we can get through it. Nobody wants to be stuck inside. That's the problem with individuals. too selfish, they gotta do what they want to do, rather than what is right for the whole. And now states are mandating staying inside because people are too selfish to do what is required. You're right. People are our own worst enemies.
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Old 4 April 2020, 03:30 AM   #5014
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Other countries have done it.

We are trying. Perhaps if we had tried harder earlier, we would be past the peak. But that is water under the bridge.

And it appears to be working in some places in the US. Too early to tell, so I say appears.

You flatten the curve by social distancing (which some states have not yet put in place and some are still ignoring but we are getting better at it).

At the same time you increase testing capability, medical equipment and stores, and PPG. So we don't get caught with our pants down again.

When the peak has passed, you test, test, test. And and trace, trace, trace.

We we pay the long term price of no hand shaking, wearing masks in public (like other countries do) etc. until we have a vaccine.

And this one is optional, but one of my favorites: don't let any cruise ships run unit they have posted a bond large enough to pay for all the cost they have forced tax payers to pay to rescue and quarantine and treat their passengers.

Stay safe.
I'm still not getting it.

The peak we have now is an artificial peak. Probably 80-90% of the worlds population have never come into contact with the virus.

To me there are two options. Open the doors and hope for self immunity or wait for a year or more for a vaccine.

To say we wait for a peak all you're doing is waiting for the people who have already been affected to settle out. But when that happens, do you think the virus is then gone from the planet?

Does this virus die out on its own, without any more human contact to spread it?

Just asking.
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Old 4 April 2020, 03:31 AM   #5015
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Everyone seem to also assume a vaccine will even work then.....but clearly that isn’t always the case so while many companies are working on it w best estimates a year away one can clearly assume the economy cannot be shutdown for a year . It sad to think this way but ultimately society must go on and maybe the Swedish way is the way to go ...
All around it is a very delicate balancing act for the administration and yeah wear a mask been saying that since day 1.
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Old 4 April 2020, 03:34 AM   #5016
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PHP Code:



This article is not on Facebook!

I don’t even use Facebook...

It was published in a business journal.

Conspiracy theory ? Says who , you ?

Thanks for your input but I don’t believe we’ve

reached the point where one make a decision

for all on what to believe or not believe.

Have we ? I though that it is a personal choice?

Now, I can not tell you how many threads and

postings I found on TRF over the years

I didn’t agree with or was to my liking .

I simply passed it by and went to another threat.

Please don’t make a decision for everyone else

except yourself .



Have a wonderful day my friend ...
Business journal or not it doesn't matter. What I think doesn't matter. Science is not democratic, you can't decide the speed of light by popular vote. And all these 5g theories are just plain nonsense from a scientific point of view, even if published by your favorite business journal.

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Old 4 April 2020, 03:37 AM   #5017
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I say get the f over it and do your part. The sooner we do this, the sooner we can get through it. Nobody wants to be stuck inside. That's the problem with individuals. too selfish, they gotta do what they want to do, rather than what is right for the whole. And now states are mandating staying inside because people are too selfish to do what is required. You're right. People are our own worst enemies.
I wish it were that easy. It’s going to take state, government and military to keep it at bay.
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Old 4 April 2020, 03:38 AM   #5018
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I’m just curious, a question if I may .

If 5G is purely and wholly stable and used

for the sole purpose of our technological advancement .

Why are multiple companies creating protection

against 5G radiation and EMF bandwidths ?
Because people not knowing the details of the technology and driven by fear induced by conspiracy theorists will buy them.

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Old 4 April 2020, 03:54 AM   #5019
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Does this virus die out on its own, without any more human contact to spread it. Just asking.
From Infectious Disease 101 in med school, these are the possible outcomes in a pandemic. The pandemic ends when it runs out of victims.

1) Person becomes infected, recovers via natural immunity.
2) Person becomes infected, recovers after receiving antiviral agents.
3) Person becomes infected, dies.
4) Person avoids infection after isolating, avoiding infected persons.
5) Person receives vaccine effective against infecting agent
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Old 4 April 2020, 03:54 AM   #5020
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Maybe some good news out of Pittsburgh?

https://nypost.com/2020/04/02/scient...virus-vaccine/
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Old 4 April 2020, 03:56 AM   #5021
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Business journal or not it doesn't matter. What I think doesn't matter. Science is not democratic, you can't decide the speed of light by popular vote. And all these 5g theories are just plain nonsense from a scientific point of view, even if published by your favorite business journal.

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Not my business journal .
We'll agree to disagree...
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Old 4 April 2020, 04:01 AM   #5022
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Business journal or not it doesn't matter. What I think doesn't matter. Science is not democratic, you can't decide the speed of light by popular vote. And all these 5g theories are just plain nonsense from a scientific point of view, even if published by your favorite business journal.

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Wait! I have a theory....the virus appears to be trending worse in places with subways. So subways are obviously the problem not 5G (and has nothing to do with population centers). So there.
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Old 4 April 2020, 04:03 AM   #5023
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Originally Posted by joeychitwood View Post
From Infectious Disease 101 in med school, these are the possible outcomes in a pandemic. The pandemic ends when it runs out of victims.

1) Person becomes infected, recovers via natural immunity.
2) Person becomes infected, recovers after receiving antiviral agents.
3) Person becomes infected, dies.
4) Person avoids infection after isolating, avoiding infected persons.
5) Person receives vaccine effective against infecting agent
Ok thanks.
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Old 4 April 2020, 04:03 AM   #5024
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Wait! I have a theory....the virus appears to be trending worse in places with subways. So subways are obviously the problem not 5G (and has nothing to do with population centers). So there.
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Old 4 April 2020, 04:13 AM   #5025
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In my hometown, NYC, I could see subways being a breeding ground. With a population of over 8 million. NYC looks like something out of a sci-fi movie. It's so sad. Our medical/emergency workers are working around the clock. There's refrigerated trailers used for victims of Covid-19. Pop up hospitals in central park. This is crazy. I pray for this to end. Everyone be safe.
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Old 4 April 2020, 04:20 AM   #5026
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So are all states in the US on lockdown or are some business as usual?


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Old 4 April 2020, 04:23 AM   #5027
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Originally Posted by joeychitwood View Post
From Infectious Disease 101 in med school, these are the possible outcomes in a pandemic. The pandemic ends when it runs out of victims.

1) Person becomes infected, recovers via natural immunity.
2) Person becomes infected, recovers after receiving antiviral agents.
3) Person becomes infected, dies.
4) Person avoids infection after isolating, avoiding infected persons.
5) Person receives vaccine effective against infecting agent
Thanks Joey. #1 was a question I had earlier or in another thread.
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Old 4 April 2020, 04:28 AM   #5028
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Thanks Joey. #1 was a question I had earlier or in another thread.
The hardest fact to handle is that we all wish there was another option on the list, something like “virus mutates and becomes less infectious and virulent.” But for now, those are the possible outcomes, and as you can see, all of them will play some role in reaching an end to the pandemic. It WILL end some day. Societies and cultures will resume. Life will return to a normal state.
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Old 4 April 2020, 04:33 AM   #5029
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Originally Posted by joeychitwood View Post
From Infectious Disease 101 in med school, these are the possible outcomes in a pandemic. The pandemic ends when it runs out of victims.

1) Person becomes infected, recovers via natural immunity.
2) Person becomes infected, recovers after receiving antiviral agents.
3) Person becomes infected, dies.
4) Person avoids infection after isolating, avoiding infected persons.
5) Person receives vaccine effective against infecting agent

Joey this is not to you directly but rather a general expansion of Blanksy’s question based on your response. It appears the whole world must wait for a vaccine in 12-18 months by these options.

With so many countries, and states for that matter, at different stages of quarantine, there is no chance of stopping the spread, unless worldwide travel is completely stopped. I’m talking even travel from state to state. If California reports no new cases for a week, what’s to stop some infected people from another state coming in and starting the whole process over again, and infecting the whole group of people that never got infected during the first wave? What’s the long term plan beyond a month or two of quarantine?

This is why many on this thread are saying, to hell with it, let’s just get back to work. The economy cannot do this for 12-18 months while waiting for a vaccine.

I’m not sure where I fall on the fence. I now know of 2 cases of young healthy fathers (< 42 yrs old) succumbing to COVID-19. Its a scary proposition to open the floodgates, but I’m afraid we are going to have to.


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Old 4 April 2020, 04:41 AM   #5030
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The hardest fact to handle is that we all wish there was another option on the list, something like “virus mutates and becomes less infectious and virulent.” But for now, those are the possible outcomes, and as you can see, all of them will play some role in reaching an end to the pandemic. It WILL end some day. Societies and cultures will resume. Life will return to a normal state.
all due respect doc, but you cant say that.

the fact is that we do not know the future. or how long this will go on, or the ultimate effects on the health of our species, or the economic effects of our world.
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Old 4 April 2020, 04:45 AM   #5031
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See post 5019. Just one possibility.

I doubt we will have to wait 12-18 months for a vaccine, IMO.
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Old 4 April 2020, 05:03 AM   #5032
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If we wait too long there may be no money to pay for the health care system, so I disagree, the economy comes first we simply can not shut down for several months.

We all appreciate the work of the hospital staff and their selfless dedication and on a personal basis my thoughts are for your daughter. The PPE situation is a disgrace.
There will be plenty of money for healthcare, along with food and utilities. Whether there will be enough for a new car, latest ithingy, or all-inclusive holiday in the Caribbean is another question
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Old 4 April 2020, 05:04 AM   #5033
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Maybe some good news out of Pittsburgh?

https://nypost.com/2020/04/02/scient...virus-vaccine/
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See post 5019. Just one possibility.

I doubt we will have to wait 12-18 months for a vaccine, IMO.
"The study’s authors are now applying for an investigational new drug approval from the US Food and Drug Administration. They hope to start human clinical trials within the next few months."

It's my understanding that other vaccines have already started human clinical trials.
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Old 4 April 2020, 05:08 AM   #5034
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all due respect doc, but you cant say that.

the fact is that we do not know the future. or how long this will go on, or the ultimate effects on the health of our species, or the economic effects of our world.
We will have to agree to disagree. The 1918 epidemic, World War I, World War II, the atomic bombs, the Great Depression, the Holocaust, AIDS, and so many other challenges. The world comes back. People marry, have children, celebrate happy days, build and rebuild societies. I personally don’t see this pandemic as the end of civilization. JMHO.
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Old 4 April 2020, 05:13 AM   #5035
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There was a centarian patient in Italy who recovered who also had the Spanish flu way back when.
Recovering from 2 major pandemics over a hundred years apart is quite a feat. The authorities may want to take a look at his/her antibodies.
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Old 4 April 2020, 05:30 AM   #5036
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The bulk of the economic damage is already inflicted and catastrophic. May as well continue with the shutdown and isolation measures because having a destroyed economy and mass infections is worse than what we have now.

Life is never going to be the way it was prior to this. Some aspects of life will resume, but I see several things economically and culturally being forever changed and not for the better. You are living through a watershed moment in Western society.
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Old 4 April 2020, 05:37 AM   #5037
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There will be plenty of money for healthcare, along with food and utilities. Whether there will be enough for a new car, latest ithingy, or all-inclusive holiday in the Caribbean is another question
Well it's strange that before this crisis and with a healthy economy there was not "plenty of money for healthcare" - so I'm not sure how you come to that conclusion.
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Old 4 April 2020, 05:40 AM   #5038
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The bulk of the economic damage is already inflicted and catastrophic. May as well continue with the shutdown and isolation measures because having a destroyed economy and mass infections is worse than what we have now.

Life is never going to be the way it was prior to this. Some aspects of life will resume, but I see several things economically and culturally being forever changed and not for the better. You are living through a watershed moment in Western society.
I happen to agree with all of this.

Sadly...
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Old 4 April 2020, 06:01 AM   #5039
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The bulk of the economic damage is already inflicted and catastrophic. May as well continue with the shutdown and isolation measures because having a destroyed economy and mass infections is worse than what we have now.

Life is never going to be the way it was prior to this. Some aspects of life will resume, but I see several things economically and culturally being forever changed and not for the better. You are living through a watershed moment in Western society.
I disagree.

Colossal damage has been done to the economy in only the last 2 or 3 weeks, but it is nowhere near destroyed yet. Keeping it closed for 3 months or longer and it very well could be.

Mass infections may equate to a massive death toll but without any infrastructure (because of no economy) we could indeed see mass rioting, civil unrest, and global war – Armageddon.

(I know this is worst case scenario, but people keep talking about the value of their watch, how much their car is worth, value of their property and don’t realize how close to the edge we really could be.)

We are indeed living through a watershed moment in Western society.
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Old 4 April 2020, 06:12 AM   #5040
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I disagree.



Colossal damage has been done to the economy in only the last 2 or 3 weeks, but it is nowhere near destroyed yet. Keeping it closed for 3 months or longer and it very well could be.



Mass infections may equate to a massive death toll but without any infrastructure (because of no economy) we could indeed see mass rioting, civil unrest, and global war – Armageddon.



(I know this is worst case scenario, but people keep talking about the value of their watch, how much their car is worth, value of their property and don’t realize how close to the edge we really could be.)



We are indeed living through a watershed moment in Western society.
Let's enjoy life and the things we have while they last. Or at least until you need to start fighting for them.

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