1803 non-quickset. New dial won't fit!!!

[pech01]

Dear all,

I have an 1803 watch from approx 1974 (non-quickset) with a caliber 1556 movement. I want to change the pie pan dial to another.

The dial I want to change to is also a pie pan 1803 dial, but it won't fit. As you can see on the picture (dial on the right) the "pan pie sides” is lower on the dial I want to fit than the sides on the present dial (dial on the left).

Also the dial I want to change to, has no sunken center (as the present dial has – picture to the left).

Have any of you heard of differences between caliber 1555 & 1556 dials or have had similar fitment issues?

Any other suggestions on what dial I might have? It’s bought as a 1803 non-quickset dial, from a respectable source.

Thanks in advance.

Peter

[pech01]

I'm kind of in a dead end on this, so any help will be highly appreciated. Also references to individuals, shops other forums, facebookgroups etc. that might have expert knowledge on 1803-dials:-)

The dial is a very nice blue stella BTW.

Thanks.

[lupus66]

is it real? post some pics.

[TimeToGo]

.
I think the one on the right was for the earlier President model, 6611 w/1055 movement, thus not fitting the 1803..

[Dan S]

Originally Posted by pech01

It’s bought as a 1803 non-quickset dial, from a respectable source.

In that case, you should be able to return it. If it doesn't fit, it doesn't fit, so I'm not sure what responses in this thread can do to help.

[pech01]

Originally Posted by Dan S

In that case, you should be able to return it.
I, so I'm not sure what responses in this thread can do to help.

1. It's bougth long time ago, so I can't return.

2. See fx the response from TimeToGo. Really value adding. That's the kind of response I was hoping for.

[pech01]

Originally Posted by TimeToGo

.
I think the one on the right was for the earlier President model, 6611 w/1055 movement, thus not fitting the 1803..

Great insights. Thanks a lot!!! Exactly was I was hoping for.

I'll to look into it and see if the dial could be for the 6611.

[Hurmen]

Originally Posted by pech01

I'm kind of in a dead end on this, so any help will be highly appreciated. Also references to individuals, shops other forums, facebookgroups etc. that might have expert knowledge on 1803-dials:-)

The dial is a very nice blue stella BTW.

Thanks.

If it is a blue stella dial, a 1950’s 6611 doesn’t make sense either.
Can we see the front of the dial?

[springer]

Originally Posted by pech01

1. It's bougth long time ago, so I can't return.

2. See fx the response from TimeToGo. Really value adding. That's the kind of response I was hoping for.

TimeToGo is a great resource for vintage.

[pech01]

Haven't got the dial at home at the moment, so can't take pictures (it's at the watchmakers).

The dial is similar to this: https://www.sothebys.com/en/buy/auct...ellow-gold-and

Blue with gold writing. T Swiss T at the bottom and same and same text layout.

But you're correct. It can be for the 6611 - at least not based on the layout of the dial.

[pech01]

One special feature of the dial though is, that the stella-dial hasn't got a sunken center as most 1555/1556 dials have:

[KY..]

Originally Posted by Hurmen

If it is a blue stella dial, a 1950’s 6611 doesn’t make sense either.
Can we see the front of the dial?

Exactly, Stella dials originated in the 70’s so the dial on the right wouldn’t follow expectations.
It should definitely fit any 1803 if it is a real Stella.
Link: https://watchtime.me/life-style/vint...ial-timepieces

[pech01]

So what is it?

[KY..]

Originally Posted by pech01

So what is it?

Can you show a clear photo of the front of the dial?

[pech01]

Haven’t the dial at home, but it’s a standard Stella dial with all the correct details. Exactly similar to this:

https://www.sothebys.com/en/buy/auct...ellow-gold-and

[miamiclay]

Pictures of the faces of both dials might help - I understand the new dial looks “exactly similar to” the Sotheby’s one, but seeing your actual dials’ faces still might offer useful info. (If they’re still at the watchmaker, ask him/her to send you some?)

Whether 6611 or 1803, pie pan dials do not usually have a visibly “sunken” center on the dial face (except, iirc, for some gem set 1803 dials) - Do you mean the center of the dial’s face is sunken, and the center of the back stands proud? I’m not certain from your photo.

Perhaps the new one is a 6511/6611/B dial with a Stella-like repaint? Have you confirmed the watch is an 1803 case with a 155x movement in it? Does the center also cause a fitment problem, or just the rim?

If posting clear face photos of both dials doesn’t produce an adequate answer here, Rik Dietel or one of the Ridleys might know.

[southtexas]

Originally Posted by pech01

One special feature of the dial though is, that the stella-dial hasn't got a sunken center as most 1555/1556 dials have:

The edge (or “pan depth”, for lack of a better term) looks markedly different between those two dial. One edge looks demonstrably taller than the other.

[pech01]

Exactly. The problem is the pan depth not being deep enough.

In specific the rolex part 8015 "Date indicator seating" in my caliber 1556 is to high to accommodate the dial.

So it would be relevant to know, if anyone knows about variations of the Date indicator seating (part 8015) between the caliber 1555/1556 or variations within the calibers (?).

The dial can be seen here (the blue one in the end at the article) as it was loaned out for an article about stella dials:

https://www.perpetualpassion.com/202...e-stella-dial/

Thanks:-)

[pech01]

The 8015 "Date indicator seating" is this part

[southtexas]

I believe this is the dial in question from the website.

edit: looks my cut/paste of photo degraded the image quality.

[miamiclay]

Fitment, etc. aside, I’m not sure I’ve ever seen a factory Stella Wide Boy dial before …

[KY..]

Originally Posted by miamiclay

Fitment, etc. aside, I’m not sure I’ve ever seen a factory Stella Wide Boy dial before …

I agree with you.
If this is the dial I’m not so sure it is actually a Stella.
Many Stella 1803 dials have a thick shinny, almost deep clear coat, looking appearance to them that was prone to cracking.
Found this photo.
https://www.rolexforums.com/attachme...1&d=1355960810
IMG_7470.jpeg

[CTech]

Originally Posted by miamiclay

Fitment, etc. aside, I’m not sure I’ve ever seen a factory Stella Wide Boy dial before …

That's a good point.

I don't believe this dial started out as a wide boy as the holes for locating the hour indices are in the wrong place.

There is so much wrong with this dial and it looks to me to be an earlier dial refinished to look like a Stella dial with wide boy indices added, probably glued on.

The top photo is part of what we think is the back face of the OP's dial around the day window, and the bottom one is the same section of a genuine wide boy dial. This shows quite clearly that the dial did not start out as an 1803 wide boy variation.

[carwashchris]

The blue dial shown is nothing I have ever seen before. The shade of blue is not the common stella blue. Also the markers are WB markers ( wrong for a stella ) and they don't align with the lume plots.

My 2 cents

Sent from my SM-S908U using Tapatalk

[miamiclay]

In case it is of help to anyone, I’ve attached larger copies of the images of the OP’s dial (from the Perpetual Passion article linked above).

In addition to the Wide Boy marker issues and other questions above, the minute marks’ paint seems to extend over the pie pan edge onto the top of the dial (especially between 11-1), which I’ve not noticed on other 1803 Stellas.

pech01, I wish we could offer you both a fitment solution and better news (not least because, as a fan of both Stellas and Wide Boy dials, I *wish* they had been combined!), but CTech has been an exceptionally knowledgeable and reliable source on these matters.
.

[watch.hunter66]

Originally Posted by KY..

I agree with you.
If this is the dial I’m not so sure it is actually a Stella.
Many Stella 1803 dials have a thick shinny, almost deep clear coat, looking appearance to them that was prone to cracking.

I have to contradict you. On the flat color lacquered Stella dials there is never any layer of transparent enamel. Lacquer and enamel are completely different paints. The presence of transparent enamel is an excellent clue as to whether the dial is correct or not.

Regarding the dial of the discussion, the background color and the rail gold graphics seem correct to me and in line with the first production of Stella dials, quite common on various Oxbloods of the time, from the end of the 60s. The back, however, looks like an older model. I have seen those indexes both on DD 180x and on 160x. They were quite common at the time.

[watch.hunter66]

A detail of a mid-1970s 1803 Stella that I owned for over twenty years, sold a year ago to a well-known Swiss collector and dealer. There is no transparent layer above the lacquer.

[KY..]

Originally Posted by watch.hunter66

I have to contradict you. On the flat color lacquered Stella dials there is never any layer of transparent enamel. Lacquer and enamel are completely different paints. The presence of transparent enamel is an excellent clue as to whether the dial is correct or not.

Regarding the dial of the discussion, the background color and the rail gold graphics seem correct to me and in line with the first production of Stella dials, quite common on various Oxbloods of the time, from the end of the 60s. The back, however, looks like an older model. I have seen those indexes both on DD 180x and on 160x. They were quite common at the time.

No worries, this is what makes the hobby fun to me.
Does this mean you feel the dial in question is an original Stella?
Additionally, can you think of a reason why this dial doesn’t fit the OP’s 1803?
Were there different sized day/date wheels or something like that between the different 6510 & 6511 models 1055 movement and the 1803 model’s 1555/1556 movements?

[suligeo]

The blue discussed dial is not even glossy. Why to call it Stella?


https://www.instagram.com/vintage_georgex/

[watch.hunter66]

Originally Posted by KY..

Does this mean you feel the dial in question is an original Stella?
Additionally, can you think of a reason why this dial doesn’t fit the OP’s 1803?

I did not say this. I said that imho the characteristics of the blue background and the gold graphics of the dial seem to me in line with the first production of Stella dials, which began at the end of the 60s. However, the dial seems to me for the previous reference, the DD 6611. It would be necessary to see it live, however, to understand if the dial has a defect due to which it is not possible to mount it or if it is an older dial. If it were the second case, I would not exclude a priori that it could have been supplied by Rolex. I recently happened to be selling an old dial for 6605 with later features, right for 160x. The buyer and I examined it together and thought it was an original period service dial. It was not reprinted.