Overhaul Decisions Rolex Explorer II 16570 Tritium Polish Rolex or Independent

[gmcjetpilot]

Overhaul Decisions Rolex Explorer II 16570 Tritium Polish Rolex or Independent

Hi: New to Forum. Intro - I am proud owner of 16570 Black Face Explorer II, since new in 1994. It has been around the world many times. At 27 years it is in good condition, keeps good time (+3 to 4 sec/day). The tritium is 100% dead as expected. The patina of dial/hands is very mild, still more whitish than yellow. Can't find box, certificate, tag paperwork. That is OK I don't want to sell anytime soon, and when or if I sell my watch, don't think it will be considered a rare vintage with all the provenance.

I went to a Authorized Rolex dealer with certified Rolex watchmakers and discussed overhaul. Data point $795 + parts, 5-6 week turnaround. I did research this and want your opinions. It seems like two paths, one is you want it OVERHAULED like new but not original, or keep it vintage (original parts and patina and wear and tear). I am thinking a happy compromise, call it a restoration-mod. Thank you in advance.

1) Go with Rolex local (Bob Richards Jewelers)? Or send to Rolex NY or TX?? Independent Rolex Watchmaker??? Rolex local quoted $795 + parts + 6 weeks. What do good independent watchmakers get? If I go independent it will likely require shipping. Are there any good independent Rolex watchmakers in Memphis TN? Nashville TN? Saint Louis MO? New Orleans LA? (that is the most I will drive). I see people recommend a few shops in LA Cali area.

2) Keep and don't replace dial and watch hands? If NO see #3
(My local Rolex watchmaker said that is OK.)

3) How do I restore illuminance of dial and hands?
>Rolex replace for $900 & they keep my original dial / hands.*
>Independent watch maker re-lume the original dial and hands
>Independent watch maker replace dial and hands (keep original parts).**

* Rolex watchmaker told me they don't know what they will get from Rolex, tritium, luminova, chromalite. Really. I pressed about tritium and they said it could be tritium. Then of course you are still left with the 12.5 year half life. Is Luminova or Chromalite better? Will they also stop working like Tritium over time? Everything will age. How are original Luminova watches doing.

** I looked and found dials and hands on eBay. If they are tritium then it is pointless if original. If there is new production tritium replacement parts? Rolex went to Luminova in 1998, so some late 16570's after 1998 to 2011 may still glow. Does Luminova fade over time?

Parts: The dials I found on open market were Rolex prices and said to be genuine. Again if original tritium no need to buy that. The full set of hands was under $30 so they are reproduction "tribute" parts. I don't know what they use for luminance.

POLISH - To polish or not polish? My watch has minor scuffs being a working watch for many years, but nothing major. I am leaning to polish. I figure I wear it another 20 years the patina will be back. Also if I sell it as a overhauled like new watch might do better than a original vintage, since it is not rare and do not have the box and cert. (I know )


The question leave all patina or go full restoration "like new" fully functional (including night luminescence). I am thinking a Hyrbid of refurbishment and original leave it alone. I kind of want to use this as working watch. I might like to see it in the dark. However I recall when flying in an airplane at night when I needed to look at my watch, I would turn on the overhead spot light to see it, verses staying in the dark. In other words even if the hands and dial are glowing it is not like looking at a Casio digital. (yes I said Casio digital). The least effort is go local, no polish, no dial/hand change. If I go "Reso-mod" and use aftermarket parts or try to have dial/hands refinished were do I get parts or find someone who can do this competently? Can you buy Tritium Paint?

Sorry for being so long. However feel free to not read all of it and insert your own reality and opinion. What would you do with this watch. Cheers.

[Tools]

Welcome.

I would not use the AD you describe. At Rolex, a $795 service would include parts except crystal and perhaps crown/tube. Charging extra for parts could be an expensive surprise.

Do not replace the dial and hands, that is where the patina develops and is the majority of value for any watch. You can, of course, replace those if you want a functional watch. You cannot buy tritium paint, nor will anybody put in a tritium dial.

Personally, I would send it off to Dallas RSC. I would let them refinish the case and bracelet because they will make it appear as new with the correct case contours intact. If you choose to replace the dial and hands, they will use modern Luminova parts that are correct service replacements.

Do not buy your parts... they will be well overpriced and are cheaper while having the service done at an RSC.

[swish77]

Send it to an RSC for a movement-only service, and insist they don’t change the dial or hands or polish it. If they refuse for whatever reason, go to a good independent.

[pk552502]

My personal opinion is to leave the original dial and hands in the watch as they are. Don't try to re-lume them or replace them- that would be a mistake. Just leave it as is. I personally wouldn't polish it but that's a more subjective decision.

[Dan S]

If you replace or re-lume the dial, you have immediately reduced the value of the watch dramatically if you ever choose to sell. So just go into that decision with your eyes open.

If working lume is critical, my suggestion would be to sell the watch and buy a new one with a super-luminova dial. SL lume isn't great since it needs to be charged, and doesn't last that long, but at least it will be something.

As noted above, if you choose to have Rolex service it, send it directly to RSC Dallas, do not use your local jeweler as a middle-man.

Rolex doesn't make tritium dials any more. So if your local supposed "Rolex certified" jeweler told you they might be able to get a new tritium dial from Rolex, that's not a good sign. Many ADs claim to have "Rolex watchmakers", but you really never know what that means.

[Richard Carver]

For your watch I would recommend an actual Rolex service by Dallas or New York. I would suggest retaining the original Tritium dial and hands. Regardless of what you hear on the forums there are not teams of untrained monkeys drooling for the chance to screw up your watch on the polish wheel. A polish of your watch will not harm it's value and it will be as beautiful as it was all those years ago. :) I understand your desire to make it as functional as possible but there has to be a concession to it's place in the vintage diaspora. In 20 years an original Tritium dial will be much rarer than any service dial you use today, nor would I relume your current dial. Just accept it is now a vintage watch and dial and hands should be preserved as they are.

People seem to have a hard time understanding the difference between dropping it of at the AD for a service and going to the trouble to see that it actually gets to Rolex. When you take your watch to an AD there is no guarantee where it will be serviced (believe me, there is a difference). Through semantics your AD will tell you you're getting a Rolex service but perhaps not what you thought you were getting. Your dealer is going to make as much money on your service as possible. In many cases they will send it to whatever independent "Service Center" he can get the best price from. It will be disassembled, cleaned, oiled and reassembled using as many used parts as possible.

Let's talk about an actual Dallas or NY service. When Rolex accepts your watch for service that means they have on hand the parts to replace every part on your watch if necessary, from mid-case to dial screws they have it all. When it arrives it is assigned to a watchmaker who will disassemble the watch and examine every part. Rolex is prepared to replace every part in it if necessary at no additional cost. They do charge for "consumables", parts that are subject to ordinary wear. Tube and crown, dial and hands, rotor assembly, crystal, case parts and I believe they charge for balances now, used to be included. :). Scratch on a blued crew> Replace, mark on a screw head? replace, bit of corrosion on a plate? Replace. All the springs? Replace. What you must understand is the AD is servicing your watch for maximum profit. Rolex is attempting to achieve PERFECTION. Which do you want really?There are three Rolex owned facilities in the US, Dallas, NY, and a facility in PA that is not accessible to the public.Contact the facility of your choice, they will send you shipping materials at no cost.

[RRY]

To the OP - I'm in the same boat. I just received an estimate from RSC-NY for my N-serial polar exp 2. They insisted on changing the original hands (because they say the luminous material is cracking--even though to my eye they seem to be in good shape), and in case I do proceed with the hands replacement, they would not return the original (because counterfeiters yada yada). So I think I will need to look for an independent that will service the movement and faithfully maintain the look of my watch. I guess, at 30 years old, my watch is becoming neo-vintage, and it's time I seek out a good watchmaker that will help it age gracefully.

[sillo]

Originally Posted by swish77

Send it to an RSC for a movement-only service, and insist they don’t change the dial or hands or polish it. If they refuse for whatever reason, go to a good independent.

This would be my advice too. The nice thing is Rolex will have you check an invoice before they do any service so you can see if they’re billing you for dial/hands. If you insist on keeping the originals they’ll usually play along. I did this with my early 90s 16700 and had no issues.

[gmcjetpilot]

Keep the cards and letters coming. Appreciate everyone's thoughtful advice and comments, I read carefully. Great group. Thank you.

[TuRo]

Leave it as is, 100% dead tritium watches will be worth a lot more in yrs to come - in a sense, a 94 16570 is the 79 1655 of 15 years ago....keep it original unpolished and use an indie (watchmaker) and it will keep you in beer tokens in your old age. In fact I'll say that in just 5 years the 'untroubled/unmolested Tritium 16570 will be worth more than the 42mm 116570 exp 2

[Dan S]

Originally Posted by gmcjetpilot

Keep the cards and letters coming. Appreciate everyone's thoughtful advice and comments, I read carefully. Great group. Thank you.

So you are still soliciting more advice more than a year later? No progress?

[LateLearner]

Please post pics of the work you chose.

Here’s hoping you left it completely original and unpolished.

For a new, shiny appearance with functional lume-buy a new watch.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[TimeLord2]

Yea, I would have to agree with Dan. Time to get off the pot. However, I will leave you with this. My Dad's 16570 from 1991. He said it has never been serviced so not sure why the discrepancy on the hand and lume plot color but I have seen on this forum that it is not unusual. Yes, lume is dead all around but still Tritium, which you should keep. Get another watch if you want lume. Anyways, he had it serviced by Phillip Ridley who also repainted the bezel and left it unpolished. Could have gotten the hands to match as well but he kept as is.

[njsteve]

I just went through this last week with my Dad's 35 year-owned GMT 16750. RSC in Long Island essentially refused to do the job unless I authorized them to replace my original hands with new ones (and they keep the originals). In their estimate they wanted to replace the crown, dial, bezel, and bracelet and completely refinish the case.

When I asked if I got the originals back, they said no to the crown, bezel and dial but yes to bracelet. I told them in no uncertain terms that this was a vintage watch in original, one-owner condition and that had never been polished or had any service done to it in 35 years and still ran as accurately as my own 2010 serviced GMT. I did not want it changed in any way externally other than the crystal and crown (which had thread issues)

They refused to do a movement-only service.

And they also refused to do the estimated service unless I agreed to the hands replacement. I said no way, and told them to return the watch. I am now awaiting its return.

https://www.rolexforums.com/showthre...=880419&page=2

[TuRo]

Originally Posted by TimeLord2

Yea, I would have to agree with Dan. Time to get off the pot. However, I will leave you with this. My Dad's 16570 from 1991. He said it has never been serviced so not sure why the discrepancy on the hand and lume plot color but I have seen on this forum that it is not unusual. Yes, lume is dead all around but still Tritium, which you should keep. Get another watch if you want lume. Anyways, he had it serviced by Phillip Ridley who also repainted the bezel and left it unpolished. Could have gotten the hands to match as well but he kept as is.

Lovely, the early polar 16570's had the old silver hand 16550 dial manuf. 'standards' (or lack of them ! Crema 550 fade etc) hence the really lovely pumpkin hour markers.....these will be the most sought after 570s in coming years for sure.

[TimeLord2]

Originally Posted by TuRo

Lovely, the early polar 16570's had the old silver hand 16550 dial manuf. 'standards' (or lack of them ! Crema 550 fade etc) hence the really lovely pumpkin hour markers.....these will be the most sought after 570s in coming years for sure.

Thanks Paul!

[dhknola]

TimeLord, I think you have what the kids are now calling a 'CHICCHI DI MAIS' dial; I am not an expert on them, but I think 1991 is squarely in their time window. It has something to do with the lume dye at the time and there are so many getting this look from this time period the dial has acquired a moniker. Great watch!

[gmcjetpilot]

Originally Posted by dhknola

TimeLord, I think you have what the kids are now calling a 'CHICCHI DI MAIS' dial; I am not an expert on them, but I think 1991 is squarely in their time window. It has something to do with the lume dye at the time and there are so many getting this look from this time period the dial has acquired a moniker. Great watch!

I looked at my dial and hands critically and sure enough the LUM is turning cream color. It has not fully taken over and appears some of the index circles are still in transition. It is not fully CHICCHI DI MAIS.

I am not a vintage guy in general, as far as furniture, homes, etc, but love vintage cars and motorcycles and airplanes.

As far as watches I am agnostic. It has to still look good and function. Is dead lumination a big deal? No. is the cfream CHICCHI DI MAIS a turn on or off? Again no real strong feeling. It is same with old cars, motorcycles and airplanes, they are NOT as functional a modern vehicles but are cool.

In all cases they have to well cared for and functional for their time period, even with a little "patina". Patina can be very cool. I am still a "modern" fresh new guy and a brand new dial and hands in POLAR would be cool as well. As far as value and resale... that is the issue.

I am now leaning away from sending my watch to RSC possibly because if I decide on new dial and hands Rolex will keep the old ones. Where an "independent" watch service center will return them. I talked to one and they said they could source the dial and hands.

[gmcjetpilot]

Originally Posted by Dan S

So you are still soliciting more advice more than a year later? No progress?

If you don't see this the admin is holding my comments and another thread from view about how to lay watch at night to speed up and slow down. Mine does the opposite of what the web says. It speeds up on side and slows down when flat?

To answer you, no progress but, yes. I am revisiting the topic. Also the accuracy is not the usual +/-2 seconds it has been for most of it's life... it's running a little slow, so now is time to service the movement. I have decided that is all I will do. No polish or replacement dial hands.

[TimeLord2]

Hahahhaa! "The Kids" Thanks for the info dhknola, much obliged! I'll tell my dad, I'm sure he'll get a kick out of that!