32xx movement problem poll and data thread

[JayBlack]

so no solution to this day ? so what to do with the 32xx movements? avoid or ?

[Rooibard]

Buy a Tudor it’s the only reliable Rolex at the moment

[CedCraig]

Originally Posted by CharlesN

I just wonder how many seconds it will take for the clerk at Rolex to place the letter in the permanant filing tray (Aka .. The bin.

I estimate it will take about 15 seconds to slice open the letter, pull it out, glance at it ever so briefly, then toss it in the recycling bin. 😂. After all I did use high quality Crane stationery, so that might justify that ever so brief glance.

JayBlack: If there‘s a model you like and you can get it at retail, go ahead. I just got a 2022 Air-King. I figure if it develops the problem during the warranty period I can send it in for repair and then sell it. If it runs well for 5 years I probably won‘t have to worry about the issue.

[saxo3]

Originally Posted by CedCraig

I estimate it will take about 15 seconds to slice open the letter, pull it out, glance at it ever so briefly, then toss it in the recycling bin. 😂. After all I did use high quality Crane stationery, so that might justify that ever so brief glance.

[fmc000]

Originally Posted by JayBlack

so no solution to this day ? so what to do with the 32xx movements? avoid or ?

The "or" was unnecessary.

[saxo3]

Originally Posted by fmc000

The "or" was unnecessary.

The "?" too.

[LNGSD43]

For anyone looking for long term after warranty fix, my SD43 was running -3sec/day out of the box in august 2019. I broke at -12 and sent it off August 2020. I’m at the two year mark now and still running better than anything I’ve ever owned. I don’t have any fancy time grapher details but it’s running perfect. I wear the watch 7 days a week and in harsh environments ( I work at Sea). Incidentally, since the repair there is ZERO rotor noise. It’s quieter than my 3135 watch. The noise was quite audible when I got the watch.

[SearChart]

So far only slight changes (reversing wheel clicks, rotor ballbearing/engraving, mainspring barrel finishing) and nothing to do with the fix.
3230 come in very very infrequently compared to others with this issue.

And of course, no communication from HQ to anyone else, just follow warranty repair protocol.

[brandrea]

Originally Posted by SearChart

So far only slight changes (reversing wheel clicks, rotor ballbearing/engraving, mainspring barrel finishing) and nothing to do with the fix.
3230 come in very very infrequently compared to others with this issue.

And of course, no communication from HQ to anyone else, just follow warranty repair protocol.

Hi Bas, nice to see you here.

There has been rampant speculation that you were sequestered by ROLEX for spilling the beans here on TRF

Hope you are well my friend

[SearChart]

Originally Posted by brandrea

Hi Bas, nice to see you here.

There has been rampant speculation that you were sequestered by ROLEX for spilling the beans here on TRF

Hope you are well my friend

Yes, they kidnapped me and told me stay away from you guys!

[LNGSD43]

Mine’s at two years since warranty service now. I’m hoping whatever was done has permanently solved the issue. So far so good.

[fmc000]

Originally Posted by LNGSD43

Mine’s at two years since warranty service now. I’m hoping whatever was done has permanently solved the issue. So far so good.

Well, just read three posts above yours...

[LNGSD43]

Originally Posted by fmc000

Well, just read three posts above yours...

I’ve seen yes, I’m just perplexed, as are many as to why some are ok from new, some are not. Some are ok after warranty service, some are returned several times. Just hoping I’m one of the lucky ones now….

[Omarion07]

Originally Posted by SearChart

So far only slight changes (reversing wheel clicks, rotor ballbearing/engraving, mainspring barrel finishing) and nothing to do with the fix.
3230 come in very very infrequently compared to others with this issue.

And of course, no communication from HQ to anyone else, just follow warranty repair protocol.

Bas have you received any 2022 models for 32XX problems repair? Just want to get an indication if the issue is still on going


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[SearChart]

Originally Posted by Omarion07

Bas have you received any 2022 models for 32XX problems repair? Just want to get an indication if the issue is still on going


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Yes, I did a DJ36 with 3235 from June this year just last week. But the problem is that we don't know exactly when that watch was produced, we can only see when the warranty card was activated.

But the other 4 I did were all close to 5 years old, 3 DJ41 and a SD43.


Worst thing is that not all have the wear on the pivot, many don't even show signs of internal wear & tear yet won't reach 180 degrees of amplitude fully wound... I wish I could pinpoint the issue, but I'm stumped, it just doesn't make sense why they run so badly and some are not affected at all.

[HiBoost]

Originally Posted by SearChart

So far only slight changes (reversing wheel clicks, rotor ballbearing/engraving, mainspring barrel finishing) and nothing to do with the fix.
3230 come in very very infrequently compared to others with this issue.

Thanks for re-joining the conversation!

I wonder if the lower numbers on the 3230 are related to the mechanical differences, or rather the much lower numbers of watches which use this caliber. Until very recently it was just the OP36/41 and the no-date Sub, right? And as of this year add the Explorer 1 to the list. Based on how rare my AD says the OP is (the watch they get the least of compared to any model) this would seem like a likely explanation for your observation.

[CedCraig]

Originally Posted by SearChart

Worst thing is that not all have the wear on the pivot, many don't even show signs of internal wear & tear yet won't reach 180 degrees of amplitude fully wound... I wish I could pinpoint the issue, but I'm stumped, it just doesn't make sense why they run so badly and some are not affected at all.

This is bad news. If the real problem has not been specifically identified, or cannot be, then Rolex can‘t come up with a solution.

So we‘re left with an old movie quote „You've got to ask yourself one question: 'Do I feel lucky?'“

[douglasf13]

Originally Posted by Rooibard

So easiest fix for Rolex is to use Tudor movements in their watches , every Tudor I own is more accurate than all my Rolexes . Tudor is no longer the poor man’s Rolex but rather the smart man’s Rolex . My mate Steve in the uk and I both own tudors that run absolutely dead on , no deviation for months , my other 2 tudors run -2s/d . My bb pro also has no date issue so that seems to be sorted . Maybe Tudor should send some of their technicians across the road to help Rolex .

Oddly enough, I was just reading about the new Ranger in another forum, and several posters are having issues with the movement failing, giving other potential new buyers pause.

Plus, Rolex would never use a non-manufacture movement (Kinessi movement used by a few companies,) and it’s also sort of disposable, in that RSC doesn’t fix those movements. At service time, they simply swap them out with remanufactured movements on hand.

[douglasf13]

Originally Posted by Dirt

New escapement designs are nothing out of the ordinary.
Excluding the Springdrive, there must be at least 8 escapement designs out there now with Grand Seiko being very interesting.
The thing is, if there's a problem with the GS one. Nobody outside of the mothership will ever know about it unlike the Omega experience and now Rolex.

Sometimes it doesn't pay to ask for more with this business around longer power reserves than 48 hours.
The improved accuracy and precision are a bonus in anybody's language and genuinely longer service intervals are also welcome.
To my mind, the 31xx movements were pretty much gold standard stuff even with their inherent minor flaw which could've been engineered out with the stroke of a pen.
They were theoretically capable of meeting the requirement for longer service intervals and demonstrably they had dependability and reliability covered and certainly accuracy/precision standards were being met before their discontinuation, all with old tried and true escapement technology.
Longer power reserves are another thing altogether with a number of alternative solutions. The GS approach where they have stacked 2 Mainsprings inside a single barrel is rather interesting

Chronergy is a pretty interesting design, and here’s a great read about it. Even talks about Patek going a different direction.

https://www.rolexforums.com/showpost...postcount=2721

[Scholar]

This thread was a real wake-up call. I was going to get a current DJ as a gift for my father, and was considering a new OP or Explorer for myself. Going to go Grand Seiko instead for him, and perhaps Tudor for me.

[SearChart]

Originally Posted by HiBoost

Thanks for re-joining the conversation!

I wonder if the lower numbers on the 3230 are related to the mechanical differences, or rather the much lower numbers of watches which use this caliber. Until very recently it was just the OP36/41 and the no-date Sub, right? And as of this year add the Explorer 1 to the list. Based on how rare my AD says the OP is (the watch they get the least of compared to any model) this would seem like a likely explanation for your observation.

Probably due to lower production numbers and not old enough. But the coming year should tell us more about that, because they would have to start coming in more frequently then.

Funny, I also had a DJ 31 warranty repair last week, but not because of low amplitude but because this 2236 was running at 330+ degrees, overbanking. Adjusted the pallet fork and it was solved if only the 32xx issue was this easy...

[HiBoost]

Originally Posted by SearChart

Adjusted the pallet fork and it was solved if only the 32xx issue was this easy...

Right, that's what scares me about the 32xx. Any of my older watches I have no worries at all about needing a service at some point because I know it will come back good as new. With the 32xx, it's like a random roll of the dice. But on the other hand, I suppose we could actually call this "good as new" since "new" isn't always good either!!

[dannyp]

Originally Posted by SearChart

So far only slight changes (reversing wheel clicks, rotor ballbearing/engraving, mainspring barrel finishing) and nothing to do with the fix.
3230 come in very very infrequently compared to others with this issue.

And of course, no communication from HQ to anyone else, just follow warranty repair protocol.

When you refer to the clicks and ballbearings, are you referring to the former now being ceramic and the latter's increase in numbers (shown about 10-15 pages back in this thread)?

Even if done in complete secrecy (internal, even), any chance that either could have any impact on the issue, even if indirect in appearance?

Originally Posted by SearChart

Yes, I did a DJ36 with 3235 from June this year just last week. But the problem is that we don't know exactly when that watch was produced, we can only see when the warranty card was activated.

But the other 4 I did were all close to 5 years old, 3 DJ41 and a SD43.


Worst thing is that not all have the wear on the pivot, many don't even show signs of internal wear & tear yet won't reach 180 degrees of amplitude fully wound... I wish I could pinpoint the issue, but I'm stumped, it just doesn't make sense why they run so badly and some are not affected at all.

So, I guess a follow-up on my question above: Did the 2022-stamped DJ have the click/ballbearing updates?

Your observation would also suggest that the worn pivot is but an indirect symptom, rather than pivot friction in any way being the cause.

[nickrb]

Originally Posted by nickrb

It has been about six months after getting my 126711CHNR back from service for this issue. This morning I put it on the timegrapher to take some measurements after a full wind.

Dial Up 0 spd 282 amp (53 degrees) 0.1 ms beat error
3 Up -1 spd 236 amp (53 degrees) 0.1 ms beat error
6 Up 1 spd 245 amp (53 degrees) 0.0 ms beat error
9 Up -1 spd 246 amp (53 degrees) 0.2 ms beat error
12 Up -3 spd 247 amp (53 degrees) 0.0 ms beat error
Dial Down 0 spd 275 amp (53 degrees) 0.0 ms beat error

So it seems to be running OK 6 months after service.

Yesterday I fully wound the watch and then let it rest for 24 hours dial up. I took another set of data this evening after it rested for 24 hours.

Dial Up +2 spd 256 amp (53 degrees) 0.0 ms beat error
3 Up 0 spd 229 amp (53 degrees) 0.0 ms beat error
6 Up -1 spd 223 amp (53 degrees) 0.1 ms beat error
9 Up -1 spd 227 amp (53 degrees) 0.3 ms beat error
12 Up 0 spd 238 amp (53 degrees) 0.0 ms beat error
Dial Down +2 spd 252 amp (53 degrees) 0.0 ms beat error

This looks pretty reasonable (knock on wood). All amplitudes are well over 200.

[nickrb]

Originally Posted by SearChart

So far only slight changes (reversing wheel clicks, rotor ballbearing/engraving, mainspring barrel finishing) and nothing to do with the fix.
3230 come in very very infrequently compared to others with this issue.

And of course, no communication from HQ to anyone else, just follow warranty repair protocol.

I am delighted you are back (I've lurked for years and find your posts interesting) but disappointed to hear they haven't found a fix.

[SearChart]

Originally Posted by dannyp

When you refer to the clicks and ballbearings, are you referring to the former now being ceramic and the latter's increase in numbers (shown about 10-15 pages back in this thread)?

Yes, the reversing wheel clicks are now ceramic and the rotor has more ball bearings

Even if done in complete secrecy (internal, even), any chance that either could have any impact on the issue, even if indirect in appearance?

No these two changes only affect the automatic module's efficiency and longevity

So, I guess a follow-up on my question above: Did the 2022-stamped DJ have the click/ballbearing updates?

It was an earlier one from 2022 and didn't have either of the updated parts yet


Your observation would also suggest that the worn pivot is but an indirect symptom, rather than pivot friction in any way being the cause.

It definitely badly affects a movement when that pivot is wearing down and the oil gets gummed up with metal shavings.
But there's definitely more going on.
The date wheel stud is also prone to wear and complete loss of lubrication in a short time.

[CharlesN]

Originally Posted by SearChart

The date wheel stud is also prone to wear and complete loss of lubrication in a short time.

Firstly, Welcome back.

I reported here some months ago that whilst the date changes and exactly 6 hours later the amplitude took a big drop. I showed this after extensive monitoring on a Chronoscope. the amplitude recovered after a short period.

Do you have any idea why the 6am fluctuation occurs ?

The date change fluctuation at midnight is presumably as the watch has more "Work" to do moving the date wheel.

[SearChart]

Originally Posted by CharlesN

Firstly, Welcome back.

I reported here some months ago that whilst the date changes and exactly 6 hours later the amplitude took a big drop. I showed this after extensive monitoring on a Chronoscope. the amplitude recovered after a short period.

Do you have any idea why the 6am fluctuation occurs ?

The date change fluctuation at midnight is presumably as the watch has more "Work" to do moving the date wheel.

The date driving wheel has a snail shape underneath, there's a spring pressing it to build up pressure for the instantaneous date change. After it jumps the pressure is lowest and after a couple of hours it starts building up again.

I find that the spring is quite strong, definitely stronger than in the 3135, the lubricant giving issues is also a problem. This can definitely significantly impact amplitude at certain points.

[dannyp]

Originally Posted by CharlesN

Firstly, Welcome back.

I reported here some months ago that whilst the date changes and exactly 6 hours later the amplitude took a big drop. I showed this after extensive monitoring on a Chronoscope. the amplitude recovered after a short period.

Do you have any idea why the 6am fluctuation occurs ?

The date change fluctuation at midnight is presumably as the watch has more "Work" to do moving the date wheel.

Originally Posted by SearChart

The date driving wheel has a snail shape underneath, there's a spring pressing it to build up pressure for the instantaneous date change. After it jumps the pressure is lowest and after a couple of hours it starts building up again.

I find that the spring is quite strong, definitely stronger than in the 3135, the lubricant giving issues is also a problem. This can definitely significantly impact amplitude at certain points.

So this would seem to be another reason that far more 3235 come through vs 3230, since this whole assembly is absent on the latter.

Could it be that there are actually multiple independent issues that all cause the same eventual outcome?

[SearChart]

Originally Posted by dannyp

So this would seem to be another reason that far more 3235 come through vs 3230, since this whole assembly is absent on the latter.

Could it be that there are actually multiple independent issues that all cause the same eventual outcome?

Yes, that seems most likely.