Taiwanese AP Collector got banned and sharing his story

[GW44]

Originally Posted by Bartolo

While we don't know all the details it clearly is not AP "duplicating" the Rolex CPO program.

And yes it provides an "exit ramp" for a piece you acquired new w/out putting you onto the black list.

A "you can never sell this watch" program obviously cannot work for long, so manufactures are exploring ways to deal with this and at the same time profit a bit when resale prices exceed list prices at the boutique.

You will note I said “IF”, not when AP announce their plans and IF the Rolex template is one they mirror. And until all the details are known of AP’s plans it’s just speculation.

But I completely agree that if there is a managed, in-house way to stay in the brand and to upgrade it would have real value for collectors…….bit too late for that individual in Taiwan though

[Seddyspaghetti]

Interesting vid bud thanks for sharing!

[Vivalas]

Originally Posted by GW44

You will note I said “IF”, not when AP announce their plans and IF the Rolex template is one they mirror. And until all the details are known of AP’s plans it’s just speculation.

But I completely agree that if there is a managed, in-house way to stay in the brand and to upgrade it would have real value for collectors…….bit too late for that individual in Taiwan though

Yep I agree. If AP did something like that it would be a positive.

I’d be sceptical, however their watch cover (for 2 years I think) initiative was a really good idea.

[Bartolo]

Originally Posted by GW44

You will note I said “IF”, not when AP announce their plans and IF the Rolex template is one they mirror. And until all the details are known of AP’s plans it’s just speculation.

But I completely agree that if there is a managed, in-house way to stay in the brand and to upgrade it would have real value for collectors…….bit too late for that individual in Taiwan though

Too late for a lot of people! Getting blacklisted is a real thing and includes other manufactures.

Personally, I think he was rather naive in his thinking about how things would go down. If he really has such great relationships with AP, he should have discussed.

That said, it's perfectly reasonable to take the view that "I paid for it; it's mine; I can do what I want to with it including re-sell it." The only problem with that is that it's just as reasonable one might say for a manufacture to say, "Fine but we're also not selling any more to you." IMHO.

[Rickkk]

Originally Posted by Vivalas

Yep I agree. If AP did something like that it would be a positive.

I’d be sceptical, however their watch cover (for 2 years I think) initiative was a really good idea.

The watch cover was the best. I actually wear mine now

[crispyness87]

Originally Posted by Bartolo

Too late for a lot of people! Getting blacklisted is a real thing and includes other manufactures.

Personally, I think he was rather naive in his thinking about how things would go down. If he really has such great relationships with AP, he should have discussed.

That said, it's perfectly reasonable to take the view that "I paid for it; it's mine; I can do what I want to with it including re-sell it." The only problem with that is that it's just as reasonable one might say for a manufacture to say, "Fine but we're also not selling any more to you." IMHO.

Well said. I don’t get why some of the disgruntled can’t seem to digest this point.

[rockdrock]

Thanks for sharing the video. This is interesting. The man is clearly really upset. There seems to be a serious lack of communication on the issue at hand.

I get where he is coming from, I get his taste are changing, I get he should be able to do what he wants with whatever watches he wants but everything in life has a reaction. Similarly, AP can do whatever they want too. And they did.

The pieces sold are not ordinary pieces. That QP China edition is one of 88 in an ocean of people that would love to acquire that. Also note his year prior unboxing video where he explained calling horoloupe to get the watch. Horoloupe selects him and he was chosen to get it. This leads to the question whether he called his buddy Horoloupe to discuss the trade. Just as he knew to call him for an allocation he should have also called him about getting rid of it.

His negative reaction seems to mostly stem from “disrespecting’ him on the Japan trip and it translated into the collection. And….. yet still…. The boutique gave him an allocation of a Rose gold Jumbo.

He is free to do whatever he wants and I support him. However, it feel distasteful to put that all online without fully ironing out the issue with AP HQ or the region rep. Perhaps the issue would not get resolve anyway and then you can post your viewpoint if you are cancelling your relationship with AP. I think there is no damage control and he should sell and move on.

I was shocked to see so much support for him in the YT comments.

[Armis]

Originally Posted by Bartolo

That said, it's perfectly reasonable to take the view that "I paid for it; it's mine; I can do what I want to with it including re-sell it." The only problem with that is that it's just as reasonable one might say for a manufacture to say, "Fine but we're also not selling any more to you." IMHO.

This last statement made me curious about consumer rights and whether a brand is allowed to refuse to sell. But I’m not a lawyer, and a quick search suggests that this is a big topic beyond me. I’m sure AP must have considered the legal ramifications of such a policy and would not expose themselves otherwise. Still, the idea of ‘forcing’ an owner to have to resell their piece to the brand which in turn can resell that same piece themselves at a significantly higher price is truly problematic.

[texasmade]

Originally Posted by Armis

This last statement made me curious about consumer rights and whether a brand is allowed to refuse to sell. But I’m not a lawyer, and a quick search suggests that this is a big topic beyond me. I’m sure AP must have considered the legal ramifications of such a policy and would not expose themselves otherwise. Still, the idea of ‘forcing’ an owner to have to resell their piece to the brand which in turn can resell that same piece themselves at a significantly higher price is truly problematic.

According to the FTC, a company can refuse to sell under certain conditions. I'm guessing protected class (race, religion, sex, sexual orientation) is probably also covered under a different law. Obviously applies to US only so not sure what Taiwan's laws around this are.

"A firm's refusal to deal with any other person or company is lawful so long as the refusal is not the product of an anticompetitive agreement with other firms or part of a predatory or exclusionary strategy to acquire or maintain a monopoly."

https://www.ftc.gov/advice-guidance/...20a%20monopoly.

[Henrimontgomery]

AP came very close from having a CPO. They even had offices and a head of CPO.

He then got in a bickering contest with FHB, got fired and now AP does not have a CPO.

[mickyd329]

This guy was obviously an extensive collector of the brand. He knew how the game is played. I just find it disengeuise for him to say he was shocked for being blacklisted for selling 2 incredibly exclusive pieces like that. Yes, it's his property and he has the right to do what he wishes with them, but it never occurred to him to at least have a convo with AP first? I don't buy it.

[salnuaimi]

Originally Posted by mickyd329

This guy was obviously an extensive collector of the brand. He knew how the game is played. I just find it disengeuise for him to say he was shocked for being blacklisted for selling 2 incredibly exclusive pieces like that. Yes, it's his property and he has the right to do what he wishes with them, but it never occurred to him to at least have a convo with AP first? I don't buy it.

Just a question you think a convo with AP will result into what exactly?

Approval to sell?? or they will maybe offer him what he wants instead ?

I believe he was expecting a refusal and a remark which will be recorded against him. so the outcome seems the same to my eyes

[Mr.GL]

I am not sure how the blacklist system works in his country. Where I live in, the other 2 popular brands would do exactly the same for someone who sold , especially for exclusive timepieces . It's hilarious to read comments like go for the other two brands instead.

You can do whatever you want in your life, just dont get caught.

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[Mr.GL]

Originally Posted by Mr.GL

I am not sure how the blacklist system works in his country. Where I live in, the other 2 popular brands would do exactly the same for someone who sold , especially for exclusive timepieces . It's hilarious to read comments like go for the other two brands instead.

You can do whatever you want in your life, just dont get caught.

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I do agree with him that since he paid for it , he can do whatever he wants . However , this is how it is for now. Either you play along or don't.

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[mickyd329]

Originally Posted by salnuaimi

Just a question you think a convo with AP will result into what exactly?

Approval to sell?? or they will maybe offer him what he wants instead ?

I believe he was expecting a refusal and a remark which will be recorded against him. so the outcome seems the same to my eyes

Well, a conversation would of revealed whether moving on from the pieces would of resulted in being blacklisted. Maybe he wouldn't of sold them not wanting to risk future allocations? Maybe they would have told him it's okay and he could of been able to sell them without risking his status? Maybe he would've sold them even without approval, but at least he wouldve gone into it fully aware of the consequences.

If you are questioning whether having the conversation itself leaves a bad mark on you, I would say no. At least from my experience, I've sold pieces after discussing it with my boutique. Didn't affect my allocations. They also advised of pieces not to move when I asked so it doesn't affect my profile, and I didn't. Having an open dialoque with your boutique is paramount, in my opinion.

[Mr.GL]

Originally Posted by mickyd329

Well, a conversation would of revealed whether moving on from the pieces would of resulted in being blacklisted. Maybe he wouldn't of sold them not wanting to risk future allocations? Maybe they would have told him it's okay and he could of been able to sell them without risking his status? Maybe he would've sold them even without approval, but at least he wouldve gone into it fully aware of the consequences.



If you are questioning whether having the conversation itself leaves a bad mark on you, I would say no. At least from my experience, I've sold pieces after discussing it with my boutique. Didn't affect my allocations. They also advised of pieces not to move when I asked so it doesn't affect my profile, and I didn't. Having an open dialoque with your boutique is paramount, in my opinion.

Well said. No harm doing that, especially he is a "star" . He should have consulted you instead. : )

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[Bartolo]

Originally Posted by salnuaimi

Just a question you think a convo with AP will result into what exactly?

Approval to sell?? or they will maybe offer him what he wants instead ?

I believe he was expecting a refusal and a remark which will be recorded against him. so the outcome seems the same to my eyes

The convo with AP would have put his desire to sell into perspective for them, MAYBE. The problem is that these were extremely allocated pieces (at least one of them was), and it's unclear why he wanted a 1 of 88 so badly and then desires to sell it off so soon, OTHER THAN to make a profit. This is a primary thing AP is trying to prevent -- pieces being sold off for profit rather than going to someone who really wants to own it.

If I go to my AP boutique and say, "You know, I bought this XXX (not a super allocated piece) a year ago and now I realize it's just not for me," they will advise me if they have any desires to participate in its resale.

But if I get to the point of getting a 1 of 88 and then just sell it off . . . I expect NO MERCY.

Short answer, the convo itself would not have gotten him blacklisted the way selling off did.

[Vince_76]

Guy asked for a LE and even hit up Austen, then sold the watch without telling AP?

Makes sense why AP wouldn’t want to do business with him

[crispyness87]

Originally Posted by Vince_76

Guy asked for a LE and even hit up Austen, then sold the watch without telling AP?

Makes sense why AP wouldn’t want to do business with him

I really enjoy seeing all his insta-friends jump to his support.

Strong in that group, the delusions is.

[NYG1121]

These brands are gonna be in a lot of trouble when the tide turns. Blacklisting people that have bought so much from them is quite possibly the dumbest thing any business can ever do. So shortsighted

[crispyness87]

Originally Posted by NYG1121

These brands are gonna be in a lot of trouble when the tide turns. Blacklisting people that have bought so much from them is quite possibly the dumbest thing any business can ever do. So shortsighted

Maybe. Maybe not.

It’s a bit of an oversimplification to assume that these types of people were buying/supporting the brands (ie buying straight from the boutiques) when times were softer (ie before all the hype). I know folks who claim to be long term AP supporters (eg back from 2010), and when I quiz them about their journey, they basically buy from greys at a discount. To me, I get why they do that, but that’s not building a direct relationship with the boutique/ brand.

I’m sure AP never intended to count on these buyers when the tide eventually turns

[APWorldTour]

Originally Posted by crispyness87

Maybe. Maybe not.

It’s a bit of an oversimplification to assume that these types of people were buying/supporting the brands (ie buying straight from the boutiques) when times were softer (ie before all the hype). I know folks who claim to be long term AP supporters (eg back from 2010), and when I quiz them about their journey, they basically buy from greys at a discount. To me, I get why they do that, but that’s not building a direct relationship with the boutique/ brand.

I’m sure AP never intended to count on these buyers when the tide eventually turns

Yes but the game has changed and does not mean that new big spenders who started buying since the hype would not continue once the hype dies down. Passion once ignited is hard to tame and easy to justify irrationally.

As limited as the China edition was, he stated that his tastes have changed and only prefers to wear gold pieces now. I think we can all relate to taste changing and not wanting to keep something we don’t wear. Sure, he could have communicated better but I still think he is a good customer of the brand, still repping AP like he claims, and didn’t cash out the profits, rather rolled them into similar pieces more to his liking. Blacklisting him seems emotional and shortsighted as unlikeable as the guy is.

[DonLee]

Originally Posted by NYG1121

These brands are gonna be in a lot of trouble when the tide turns. Blacklisting people that have bought so much from them is quite possibly the dumbest thing any business can ever do. So shortsighted

so you mean that normal people who actually like the brand can get a chance to buy?

[crispyness87]

Originally Posted by APWorldTour

Yes but the game has changed and does not mean that new big spenders who started buying since the hype would not continue once the hype dies down. Passion once ignited is hard to tame and easy to justify irrationally.

As limited as the China edition was, he stated that his tastes have changed and only prefers to wear gold pieces now. I think we can all relate to taste changing and not wanting to keep something we don’t wear. Sure, he could have communicated better but I still think he is a good customer of the brand, still repping AP like he claims, and didn’t cash out the profits, rather rolled them into similar pieces more to his liking. Blacklisting him seems emotional and shortsighted as unlikeable as the guy is.

Respectfully, I’ll have to disagree.

I’m unable to relate to tastes changing on a super desirable highly limited timepiece in merely a few years. I can totally understand brands not wanting LE watches floating in the market, hence I understand when brands come down hard.

Secondly, let’s be clear. He did cash out on profits. He used the market price (way higher than the retail price he paid) of his LE titanium to trade into another timepiece. He basically got his new expensive timepiece at the low retail price of his LE titanium. ‘Cashing out’ isn’t restricted to cash profits in your wallet, we all spend cash eventually. Anyway, it’s a red herring; I know collectors who sold their APs at no profit and still got blacklisted.

[cascavel]

Wow! This was an eye opener. I didn't know that anyone still cared this much about high end watches. But it's nice to see a young man trying to keep the mojo about watches going so long after the tide has peaked.
My CONSPIRACY THEORY concerning this is that he is collaborating with AP in order to convince an audience that AP WOULD cut someone off for trading allocated pieces, which seems ludicrous.

[77T]

Originally Posted by cascavel

My CONSPIRACY THEORY concerning this is that he is collaborating with AP in order to convince an audience that AP WOULD cut someone off for trading allocated pieces, which seems ludicrous.

Sort of an AP double-agent?


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[cascavel]

Originally Posted by 77T

Sort of an AP double-agent?


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Or maybe it's a Mea Culpa. Don't do what I have done, look where it's gotten me.
In a few months I expect another podcast detailing his come to Jesus meeting with AP, letting us know how wonderful they were, and promising to be better in the future.

[Goupax]

Originally Posted by cascavel

Or maybe it's a Mea Culpa. Don't do what I have done, look where it's gotten me.
In a few months I expect another podcast detailing his come to Jesus meeting with AP, letting us know how wonderful they were, and promising to be better in the future.

Aren't we all guilty of that to some extent, not getting any calls from your favorite ''insert brand name'' for months, moaning that we are done with this particular manufacturer only to get the call and now everything is forgiven and forgotten until the cycles restarts? This hobby can be such a disease sometimes

[cascavel]

Originally Posted by Goupax

Aren't we all guilty of that to some extent, not getting any calls from your favorite ''insert brand name'' for months, moaning that we are done with this particular manufacturer only to get the call and now everything is forgiven and forgotten until the cycles restarts? This hobby can be such a disease sometimes

Yes, many are guilty of that. But how many have to create a 12 minute Whine on Line detailing our sense of betrayal and loss and asking the audience (it's sad that is one) to chime in with their opinions about whether or not we should abandon the brand. This seems more like a pitch to AP to call him so they can make up before he sells all his Royal Oaks and moves on to Patek.

[crispyness87]

Originally Posted by cascavel

Yes, many are guilty of that. But how many have to create a 12 minute Whine on Line detailing our sense of betrayal and loss and asking the audience (it's sad that is one) to chime in with their opinions about whether or not we should abandon the brand. This seems more like a pitch to AP to call him so they can make up before he sells all his Royal Oaks and moves on to Patek.

Ha yeah wait till he finds out that to move to Patek, he is gonna have to start buying a lot of other brands first.