15400 to be discontinued soon?

[watchwithlove]

I just bought a 41mm 15400 with Blue Dial yesterday from the Boutique. I was waiting for it. It took them 1 month to get it for me. I was hearing rumors about the 41mm being discontinued but it was never official for me. After they adjusted the wrist size, they said

"Congratulations, this reference will be discontinued and you have bought the last ever Boutique Edition we will get."

[Karbo]

15400 will be discontinued... in a few months.... that’s what they told me at the Ap boutique in Paris this week when I took my 15202...

[kunlun]

With the new sporty dress line coming out (as we saw in the other thread), there is a new movement, the 4302 replacing cal.3120.

Perhaps, like Rolex did with the 32xx coming out first in the lower selling DD40 line, then moving elsewhere apace, AP will test this movement in the new line before moving it into a replacement for the 15400, a year or two later.

[taxidriver]

Originally Posted by watchwithlove

I just bought a 41mm 15400 with Blue Dial yesterday from the Boutique. I was waiting for it. It took them 1 month to get it for me. I was hearing rumors about the 41mm being discontinued but it was never official for me. After they adjusted the wrist size, they said

"Congratulations, this reference will be discontinued and you have bought the last ever Boutique Edition we will get."

Congrats ☕️


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[taxidriver]

Bought this 2013


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[alex_tt]

Wow this is getting more and more offical ha??
Is there a scenario where this could harm 15400 owners? Or is it necessarily only for the good? In terms of value...

[Burlington]

Originally Posted by alex_tt

Wow this is getting more and more offical ha??
Is there a scenario where this could harm 15400 owners? Or is it necessarily only for the good? In terms of value...

I imagine only good for resale prices - demand for the 15400 seems to be at an all time high right now.

[soilwork]

I was at the boutique and having a chat over my 15400 grey dial. The sales person was telling me that they practically sold out for 2018. I asked them how’s the stock status gonna be like in 2019 and how’s the waiting list for the 15400. He seems to be avoiding my question and instead told me that my 15400 is a great piece to keep and they will have a new line coming in soon, do let him know if any piece interest me. The feeling he gave me at that moment was that 15400 seems like will be discontinued but of course these are my assumptions. He could just be avoiding my question of the waiting list.

[myporsche]

Originally Posted by kunlun

With the new sporty dress line coming out (as we saw in the other thread), there is a new movement, the 4302 replacing cal.3120.

Perhaps, like Rolex did with the 32xx coming out first in the lower selling DD40 line, then moving elsewhere apace, AP will test this movement in the new line before moving it into a replacement for the 15400, a year or two later.

Doesn't make sense, the 3120 is one of their newest and robust in house movements, one of the best, why would they suddenly discontinue it? The new movement is probably for the new line exclusively or dress pieces. Also they need to come up with a chrono in house not another workhorse.

[Birder]

Originally Posted by myporsche

Doesn't make sense, the 3120 is one of their newest and robust in house movements, one of the best, why would they suddenly discontinue it? The new movement is probably for the new line exclusively or dress pieces. Also they need to come up with a chrono in house not another workhorse.

Hence the movement will continue, likely. The case might also remain the same, but my guess is that dial will change cosmetically. One speculation suggests that circular bezel may also be on the way.

[appa666]

I was at boutique yesterday and it seems like there would be certain changes to be made on 15400, but they wouldn’t give me more details.

[karasus]

Originally Posted by appa666

I was at boutique yesterday and it seems like there would be certain changes to be made on 15400, but they wouldn’t give me more details.

Probably move the date window to between 4 and 5

[HarryLime]

Originally Posted by watchwithlove

I just bought a 41mm 15400 with Blue Dial yesterday from the Boutique. I was waiting for it. It took them 1 month to get it for me. I was hearing rumors about the 41mm being discontinued but it was never official for me. After they adjusted the wrist size, they said

"Congratulations, this reference will be discontinued and you have bought the last ever Boutique Edition we will get."

Damn, only a month? That's pretty good!

[OJONES]

Originally Posted by myporsche

Doesn't make sense, the 3120 is one of their newest and robust in house movements, one of the best, why would they suddenly discontinue it? The new movement is probably for the new line exclusively or dress pieces. Also they need to come up with a chrono in house not another workhorse.

I’m guessing that the big announcement about Nivachron tech back in August will start to be realised soon.

[appa666]

Originally Posted by karasus

Probably move the date window to between 4 and 5

I hope they can add 39mm back to the collection, while keeping the 41

[redsubby]

Originally Posted by karasus

Probably move the date window to between 4 and 5

For me that would kill the watch. Cannot stand date window at that position.

[Bearxj86]

Originally Posted by myporsche

LMAO and what level is that? What can you objectively state is better on the 5711 than the RO? Besides finishing which can be arguable among both, what else?

Movement finishing you cannot compare the two.

[karasus]

Originally Posted by myporsche

Doesn't make sense, the 3120 is one of their newest and robust in house movements, one of the best, why would they suddenly discontinue it? The new movement is probably for the new line exclusively or dress pieces. Also they need to come up with a chrono in house not another workhorse.

It makes absolute sense. Nowadays when they develop an in house movement, they try to develop a family of movements based upon a single workhorse movement's architecture.

AP didn't have a workhorse movement up until the 3120, which is amongst the best but it has a few problems:

1. The movement is thick, which makes building upon it more difficult. The movement is quite strong though so that's a counter point, but it makes building chronographs from it difficult unless you want 16mm royal oak chronos.

2. The movement only works at 3HZ, while most workhorse movements from competitors are 4hz. This makes ensuring accuracy of the movement a bit harder and you also get a less "smooth" chronograph if you build upon a 3hz movement.

This is a bit of speculation but I think it would be the next logical step. Its likely that the new movement will be a 4hz movement, the base movement will be designed for accommodating complications such as chrono, GMT and PC (which we see already from the leaks).

3120 will be used in the divers and other "tough" watches such as offshores or divers, while the new thinner movement will go to complications/dressier watches.

[ct79]

Originally Posted by karasus

It makes absolute sense. Nowadays when they develop an in house movement, they try to develop a family of movements based upon a single workhorse movement's architecture.

AP didn't have a workhorse movement up until the 3120, which is amongst the best but it has a few problems:

1. The movement is thick, which makes building upon it more difficult. The movement is quite strong though so that's a counter point, but it makes building chronographs from it difficult unless you want 16mm royal oak chronos.

2. The movement only works at 3HZ, while most workhorse movements from competitors are 4hz. This makes ensuring accuracy of the movement a bit harder and you also get a less "smooth" chronograph if you build upon a 3hz movement.

This is a bit of speculation but I think it would be the next logical step. Its likely that the new movement will be a 4hz movement, the base movement will be designed for accommodating complications such as chrono, GMT and PC (which we see already from the leaks).

3120 will be used in the divers and other "tough" watches such as offshores or divers, while the new thinner movement will go to complications/dressier watches.

That is a very interesting point. I once contemplated buying a 15400 or 15450. Could take a look at the 15450 in person and noticed immediately the difference in the second hand movement compared to a watch which operates on 4Hz. I just think an automatic looks like an automatic as of 4Hz, as this is simply what you have become accustomed to.
In the end neither of the two sizes RO 37 or 41 mm would fit me, so I lost interest. A 39ish mm model would be perfect.
Not to bash but simply to state my preferences: In order to really convince myself rationally to pay the upcharge for a RO/AP three hand sports model compared to a SS Rolex professional model, even though the finishing of the visible movement partially legitimizes that amount already today, AP would have to offer me at least 100 m water resistance, as said, a 4Hz movement and a workable size. Some kind of bracelet/clasp on the fly length modification I have also grown accustomed too.

AP does not have to become Rolex in this respect. But I at least only fall for the "mistique" of AP and the RO up to a certain point. Then my brains kicks in again and runs through a checklist of things which I want to see covered before handing over some close to 18000 Euros for a watch.
So let's see what January brings.

Christian

[masterserg]

Originally Posted by karasus

It makes absolute sense. Nowadays when they develop an in house movement, they try to develop a family of movements based upon a single workhorse movement's architecture.

AP didn't have a workhorse movement up until the 3120, which is amongst the best but it has a few problems:

1. The movement is thick, which makes building upon it more difficult. The movement is quite strong though so that's a counter point, but it makes building chronographs from it difficult unless you want 16mm royal oak chronos.

2. The movement only works at 3HZ, while most workhorse movements from competitors are 4hz. This makes ensuring accuracy of the movement a bit harder and you also get a less "smooth" chronograph if you build upon a 3hz movement.

This is a bit of speculation but I think it would be the next logical step. Its likely that the new movement will be a 4hz movement, the base movement will be designed for accommodating complications such as chrono, GMT and PC (which we see already from the leaks).

3120 will be used in the divers and other "tough" watches such as offshores or divers, while the new thinner movement will go to complications/dressier watches.

Good post.

[karasus]

Originally Posted by ct79

That is a very interesting point. I once contemplated buying a 15400 or 15450. Could take a look at the 15450 in person and noticed immediately the difference in the second hand movement compared to a watch which operates on 4Hz. I just think an automatic looks like an automatic as of 4Hz, as this is simply what you have become accustomed to.
In the end neither of the two sizes RO 37 or 41 mm would fit me, so I lost interest. A 39ish mm model would be perfect.
Not to bash but simply to state my preferences: In order to really convince myself rationally to pay the upcharge for a RO/AP three hand sports model compared to a SS Rolex professional model, even though the finishing of the visible movement partially legitimizes that amount already today, AP would have to offer me at least 100 m water resistance, as said, a 4Hz movement and a workable size. Some kind of bracelet/clasp on the fly length modification I have also grown accustomed too.

AP does not have to become Rolex in this respect. But I at least only fall for the "mistique" of AP and the RO up to a certain point. Then my brains kicks in again and runs through a checklist of things which I want to see covered before handing over some close to 18000 Euros for a watch.
So let's see what January brings.

Christian

You are right, most of us are used to seeing 4hz movements and assume any automatic movement is 4hz. But 4hz only makes accuracy easier to achieve from a manufacturing perspective, so you don't need as many highly skilled watch makers. I would argue that its cheaper/easier to achieve accuracy on a 4hz compared to a 3hz or lower.

When looking at a 3hz movement the errors in adjustment are over 21'600 beats while on a 4 hz the error is over 28'800 beats. 1/21600 > 1/28800 so any error a watch maker makes during adjustments will result in higher inaccuracies. Each mistake the watchmaker makes on a 3hz movement is amplified by 33% compared to a 4hz movement. Highly skilled watchmakers are expensive but making a 4hz movement instead of a 3hz costs the same at scale. Thus, over time its cheaper to produce 4hz movements and have less watchmakers. Arguably, for any non chronograph movement it is better to have a well adjusted 3hz movement over a 4hz, as the movement will have less wear over time due to less beats thus extending service periods. For the end user a well adjusted 3hz is better and there are many examples highly accurate high end movements are 3hz such as the Patek caliber 240. But these movements are more expensive to produce compared to a 4hz automatic.

That is why they (Rolex Group) can make the Tudor BB and BB58, which essentially have the same technology and build as Rolex submariners, at 1/3 of the price point. A large part of the price when buying a Rolex is the cachet of the brand/history rather than the manual workmanship involved in making the watch. There is definitely value in brand and history but with Rolex we can't expect much workmanship, its a good solid industrially produced watch with a heavy premium for the brand's recognition/value retention.

Point is, 3hz isn't a bad thing its just different from 4hz . except in chronographs where higher the hz the better if it doesn't compromise the watch's mechanics.

[vman]

^ thx , informative!

[uracowman]

What would this mean for the ROO since it’s also based on the 3120 movement?

[GB-man]

Originally Posted by bearxj86

Movement finishing you cannot compare the two.

I don’t feel that way at all. What do you find better on the 324?

[blacke90]

Great post.

Originally Posted by karasus

You are right, most of us are used to seeing 4hz movements and assume any automatic movement is 4hz. But 4hz only makes accuracy easier to achieve from a manufacturing perspective, so you don't need as many highly skilled watch makers. I would argue that its cheaper/easier to achieve accuracy on a 4hz compared to a 3hz or lower.

When looking at a 3hz movement the errors in adjustment are over 21'600 beats while on a 4 hz the error is over 28'800 beats. 1/21600 > 1/28800 so any error a watch maker makes during adjustments will result in higher inaccuracies. Each mistake the watchmaker makes on a 3hz movement is amplified by 33% compared to a 4hz movement. Highly skilled watchmakers are expensive but making a 4hz movement instead of a 3hz costs the same at scale. Thus, over time its cheaper to produce 4hz movements and have less watchmakers. Arguably, for any non chronograph movement it is better to have a well adjusted 3hz movement over a 4hz, as the movement will have less wear over time due to less beats thus extending service periods. For the end user a well adjusted 3hz is better and there are many examples highly accurate high end movements are 3hz such as the Patek caliber 240. But these movements are more expensive to produce compared to a 4hz automatic.

That is why they (Rolex Group) can make the Tudor BB and BB58, which essentially have the same technology and build as Rolex submariners, at 1/3 of the price point. A large part of the price when buying a Rolex is the cachet of the brand/history rather than the manual workmanship involved in making the watch. There is definitely value in brand and history but with Rolex we can't expect much workmanship, its a good solid industrially produced watch with a heavy premium for the brand's recognition/value retention.

Point is, 3hz isn't a bad thing its just different from 4hz . except in chronographs where higher the hz the better if it doesn't compromise the watch's mechanics.

[VFA]

Where are the leaks? Having difficulties finding them. Anyone care to DM me?

[ct79]

yes, this is a very nice thread.

[Horolojust]

Originally Posted by VFA

Where are the leaks? Having difficulties finding them. Anyone care to DM me?

I don’t think there’s any source on internet mate. It’s all a word of mouth.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

[karasus]

Originally Posted by Horolojust

I don’t think there’s any source on internet mate. It’s all a word of mouth.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

There where pictures about 1 week ago on the forums of the new perpetual calendar, they've been take off though since. It was in the SIHH release thread in this section.

[H_UK]

I believe that the 15400 will stay in the current line up but I have it on good authority that there may be a new movement and a re-design although relatively minor. I was told by someone who knows someone who works from AP (yeah I know we all heard that before but!) that current owners will probably be happy they have the current version as it is more aesthetically pleasing and balanced (although of course that is down to personal preference). I would only be kicking myself about getting my 15400 blue dial late last year if the new version has a micro adjustment (unlikely) or they change the colour of the dial and make it a brighter blue! I'm sure they will do something great if this is true!