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Old 9 November 2018, 02:17 AM   #91
Alex21
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Originally Posted by gaoxing84 View Post
I am sure.
I am going to leave this thread.
This will be my last post.

Good luck with everything Yacine aka Alex21.
When you pick TRF to badmouth me, don't come back again on whatsapp like you did this morning - my time. I have the right to defend myself and expose all the elements of this case since you picked our community to judge me.

Last edited by Lol-x; 9 November 2018 at 02:34 AM.. Reason: Profanity removed
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Old 9 November 2018, 02:21 AM   #92
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OK Alex21.

I am out. No point arguing it further.
I solved the issue myself.
Btw. I did gave you time to check your "high-res" photos but you insisted those are reflection.
So I said, it's fine. Gotta change my feedback on you that's all.
Go ahead and defend yourself further. Do what you do.

Lastly
I believe you have some problems comprehending what I said.
I understand you don't because English is not your first language.
That's fine.

Thank you to those who chimed in and supported both sides.

Have a great one. :)
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Old 9 November 2018, 02:30 AM   #93
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This comes to an end. I learnt a lot from this experience. Whatever happened, i probably have my share of responsability. I should have made better pictures, maybe wrote a clause of responsibility, a real contract, and maybe should have had an official authorized witness prior to sell. I learnt from it. I won't sell again to Asia or anywhere else again. If one day i have to sell, it will be face to face meeting at local AD only.
Good luck all. Learn from this experience.
Best regards.
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Old 9 November 2018, 02:32 AM   #94
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Alex21 did state in his listing in August that the watch was mint. He disclosed his newness as a seller in his listing.

It took a while to sell the watch - probably due to buyers on TRF wanting to deal with long-time, experienced members.

In this case we are reading, the buyer is a multi-time dealer here and knew he was working with a new seller. He did leave positive feedback for Alex21, then withdrew it in this thread because of the dispute over a dented crown.

Just for the sake of discussion - taking each party at his word - the lesson is back to basics: “buy the seller first”.

As for me - my own 2¢...
If I had been the buyer, and became aware of that dented crown, I would have asked for an additional $50-100 credit.
If I was selling my own Sub Date - and I overlooked a dented crown - I’d have given that same consideration to the buyer.


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Old 9 November 2018, 02:40 AM   #95
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This comes to an end. I learnt a lot from this experience.


Almost done Alex, please take a minute to edit your screenshots above to remove the language that violates TRF policies. The buyer may have sent you that in another App - but it doesn’t permit you to flaunt the rules here.

I have attached a redacted image to help you. You have an hour any post to edit it. Just sharing in the spirit of communications and this TRF community. Not a rant




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Old 9 November 2018, 03:22 AM   #96
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I think that crown was dented by someone who used plyers to loosen a very tight wind. To set the time for instance. It's the only thing that makes sense to me with those dents as there is no dammage to the crown guards...
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Old 9 November 2018, 03:37 AM   #97
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Originally Posted by 77T View Post
Alex21 did state in his listing in August that the watch was mint. He disclosed his newness as a seller in his listing.

It took a while to sell the watch - probably due to buyers on TRF wanting to deal with long-time, experienced members.

In this case we are reading, the buyer is a multi-time dealer here and knew he was working with a new seller. He did leave positive feedback for Alex21, then withdrew it in this thread because of the dispute over a dented crown.

Just for the sake of discussion - taking each party at his word - the lesson is back to basics: “buy the seller first”.

As for me - my own 2¢...
If I had been the buyer, and became aware of that dented crown, I would have asked for an additional $50-100 credit.
If I was selling my own Sub Date - and I overlooked a dented crown - I’d have given that same consideration to the buyer.


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Old 9 November 2018, 07:03 AM   #98
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I think that crown was dented by someone who used plyers to loosen a very tight wind. To set the time for instance. It's the only thing that makes sense to me with those dents as there is no dammage to the crown guards...
I feel like in that situation the ridges would take the brunt of the damage... I also am of the opinion that this is not a dent as it is too smooth to be a dent... I feel like the metal would be left with sharp corners if it had actually taken a strong enough hit to cause a dent... also, two hits concentrated on different areas of the crown??? No one hit can accomplish both impressions without affecting other areas of the crown...

This looks like the crown has been polished down... why would someone do that??? Maybe they were trying to remove a small imperfection and made things worse... I dunno but definitely have never seen this kind of damage concentrated on the crown... I also think that this kind of damage is very easy to overlook by both original seller and buyer if the rest of the watch is mint...
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Old 9 November 2018, 10:58 AM   #99
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I feel like in that situation the ridges would take the brunt of the damage... I also am of the opinion that this is not a dent as it is too smooth to be a dent... I feel like the metal would be left with sharp corners if it had actually taken a strong enough hit to cause a dent... also, two hits concentrated on different areas of the crown??? No one hit can accomplish both impressions without affecting other areas of the crown...

This looks like the crown has been polished down... why would someone do that??? Maybe they were trying to remove a small imperfection and made things worse... I dunno but definitely have never seen this kind of damage concentrated on the crown... I also think that this kind of damage is very easy to overlook by both original seller and buyer if the rest of the watch is mint...
Meh, there is absolutely no reason to "polish down" a crown - so that is out the window!

It is more plausible that it was dropped to a floor, prolly a tile floor, and it bounced. "That," I would believe before some nut put a Dremel to the crown !

Besides, ROLEX warranted the damage "enough" to install a new tube, so an "impact" is more likely what happened, indeed~
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Old 9 November 2018, 11:00 AM   #100
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Originally Posted by gaoxing84 View Post
BTW. Your Webcam quality is probably 240p.
There's no way to inspect. That's why I asked for photos.
All is clear. Except for the crown.
It's off focus.

Alex21. I hope you can post all those photos you send me via whatsapp.

Let the people here judge.
For unknown reason i didn't read your message. I'm not expecting comments from you or any confrontation. Here are the photos you asked for... The members can have an idea as whether or not there were 2 dings on the crown despite the blurry photos...

Note: shots taken with an iphone 4s and the closer i get from the subject and more it was out of focus.
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Old 10 November 2018, 05:29 AM   #101
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I think if I was selling I’d definitely post better pictures.

And I think if I was buying I’d definitely ask for better pictures....
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Old 10 November 2018, 11:53 AM   #102
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I think if I was selling I’d definitely post better pictures.

And I think if I was buying I’d definitely ask for better pictures....
Buyer on phone asked me to take snap shots while waiting on whatsapp.
My Nikon camera doesn't have whatsapp...

Those are not the ones posted in my ad to sell the watch.
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Old 10 November 2018, 11:33 PM   #103
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I wouldn't hesitate to deal with Gaoxing84. I, along with many friends on this forum, have dealt with him on many watches with zero issues. Why? because we've all clearly depicted the watch (including any blemishes if any).

If I was the seller I wouldn've forked up $150 and owned up to the issue at hand. The sellers original AD was a bit deceiving but I'll give him the benefit of the doubt that it was unintentional. However, after reading through this thread, no offense but I probably won't be doing any deals with you in the future.

When selling watches I always imagine myself on the other side of the deal and think of what the potential buyer would want to see before he wires thousands of dollars to a stranger. This is why communication and clear pictures are key.

I agree with the seller that he should stick with face to face deals if he ever plans on selling more watches.
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Old 10 November 2018, 11:58 PM   #104
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For unknown reason i didn't read your message. I'm not expecting comments from you or any confrontation. Here are the photos you asked for... The members can have an idea as whether or not there were 2 dings on the crown despite the blurry photos...

Note: shots taken with an iphone 4s and the closer i get from the subject and more it was out of focus.
Looking at these series of pictures, my conclusion is they were purposely designed to abscure the crown. Some are perfectly clear and others are obsurdly blurry and utterly useless.

In the end, it is just a crown, easily replaced and all is good. This whole situation is a big deal over a relatively small problem and small some of money. It never should have come to this.
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Old 11 November 2018, 12:05 AM   #105
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Meh, there is absolutely no reason to "polish down" a crown - so that is out the window!

It is more plausible that it was dropped to a floor, prolly a tile floor, and it bounced. "That," I would believe before some nut put a Dremel to the crown !

Besides, ROLEX warranted the damage "enough" to install a new tube, so an "impact" is more likely what happened, indeed~
In my experience crown and tube have always been replaced together during any RSC service.
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Old 11 November 2018, 12:19 AM   #106
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In my experience crown and tube have always been replaced together during any RSC service.


Yes, it is standard procedure come to think of it.


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Old 11 November 2018, 01:31 AM   #107
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And would have been noticed upon unboxing, and or when taking the photo's. Not 2 days later...
exactly what I was thinking.
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Old 11 November 2018, 02:51 AM   #108
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Problems with BOTH parties here.

1) Seller. Better pics. NO EXCUSES for sending a pics of that low in quality. The iphone 4 takes better Macro pics than that. Sending blurry photos leaves you open to issues like you are experiencing now. If it doesn't look good, don't send it until it does. PERIOD...unless of course it was done to hide the damage...again, the bad pics leave you open to all kinds of nasty issues and questions of intention. That all came from a blurry pic. Don't sell it if they can't see it clearly.

2) Buyer (who is a reseller). Not good that you took delivery of the watch on the 5th, said it was "all good", then noticed the big ding on the crown when you were louping it WITH your customer on the 7th.... So what constituted your "all good" inspection upon receipt? Once you said "all good", that watch is "all good" from the perspective of who you bought it from...you really shouldn't go back and ask for $$$ off at that point. You should have caught that ding when you took receipt of the watch, especially since you are RESELLING IT. That way you avoid all this drama on the forum and inconvenience your customer is experiencing by not having the watch need to go to service immediately to sort out an issue.
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Old 11 November 2018, 02:56 AM   #109
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Problems with BOTH parties here.

1) Seller. Better pics. NO EXCUSES for sending a pics of that low in quality. The iphone 4 takes better Macro pics than that. Send blurry photos leaves you open to issues like you are experiencing now. If it doesn't look good, don't send it until it does. PERIOD

2) Buyer (who is a reseller). Not good that you took delivery of the watch on the 5th, said it was "all good", then noticed the big ding on the crown when you were louping it WITH your customer on the 7th.... So what constituted your "all good" inspection upon receipt? Once you said "all good", that watch is "all good" from the perspective of who you bought it from...you really shouldn't go back and ask for $$$ off at that point. You should have caught that ding when you took receipt of the watch, especially since you are RESELLING IT. That way you avoid all this drama on the forum and inconvenience your customer is experiencing by not having the watch need to go to service immediately to sort out an issue.
Sums it up pretty accurately.
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Old 11 November 2018, 11:10 AM   #110
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Problems with BOTH parties here.

1) Seller. Better pics. NO EXCUSES for sending a pics of that low in quality. The iphone 4 takes better Macro pics than that. Sending blurry photos leaves you open to issues like you are experiencing now. If it doesn't look good, don't send it until it does. PERIOD...unless of course it was done to hide the damage...again, the bad pics leave you open to all kinds of nasty issues and questions of intention. That all came from a blurry pic. Don't sell it if they can't see it clearly.

2) Buyer (who is a reseller). Not good that you took delivery of the watch on the 5th, said it was "all good", then noticed the big ding on the crown when you were louping it WITH your customer on the 7th.... So what constituted your "all good" inspection upon receipt? Once you said "all good", that watch is "all good" from the perspective of who you bought it from...you really shouldn't go back and ask for $$$ off at that point. You should have caught that ding when you took receipt of the watch, especially since you are RESELLING IT. That way you avoid all this drama on the forum and inconvenience your customer is experiencing by not having the watch need to go to service immediately to sort out an issue.


Exactly right!




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Old 11 November 2018, 11:12 AM   #111
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Problems with BOTH parties here.

1) Seller. Better pics. NO EXCUSES for sending a pics of that low in quality. The iphone 4 takes better Macro pics than that. Sending blurry photos leaves you open to issues like you are experiencing now. If it doesn't look good, don't send it until it does. PERIOD...unless of course it was done to hide the damage...again, the bad pics leave you open to all kinds of nasty issues and questions of intention. That all came from a blurry pic. Don't sell it if they can't see it clearly.

2) Buyer (who is a reseller). Not good that you took delivery of the watch on the 5th, said it was "all good", then noticed the big ding on the crown when you were louping it WITH your customer on the 7th.... So what constituted your "all good" inspection upon receipt? Once you said "all good", that watch is "all good" from the perspective of who you bought it from...you really shouldn't go back and ask for $$$ off at that point. You should have caught that ding when you took receipt of the watch, especially since you are RESELLING IT. That way you avoid all this drama on the forum and inconvenience your customer is experiencing by not having the watch need to go to service immediately to sort out an issue.
Super strong observation and on point. This is an unfortunate situation that the above post accurately depicts.
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Old 11 November 2018, 11:42 PM   #112
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Old 12 November 2018, 12:25 AM   #113
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can anyone else see the edge of the dent in the first pic?
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Old 12 November 2018, 01:15 AM   #114
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Originally Posted by Fleetlord View Post
Problems with BOTH parties here.

1) Seller. Better pics. NO EXCUSES for sending a pics of that low in quality. The iphone 4 takes better Macro pics than that. Sending blurry photos leaves you open to issues like you are experiencing now. If it doesn't look good, don't send it until it does. PERIOD...unless of course it was done to hide the damage...again, the bad pics leave you open to all kinds of nasty issues and questions of intention. That all came from a blurry pic. Don't sell it if they can't see it clearly.

2) Buyer (who is a reseller). Not good that you took delivery of the watch on the 5th, said it was "all good", then noticed the big ding on the crown when you were louping it WITH your customer on the 7th.... So what constituted your "all good" inspection upon receipt? Once you said "all good", that watch is "all good" from the perspective of who you bought it from...you really shouldn't go back and ask for $$$ off at that point. You should have caught that ding when you took receipt of the watch, especially since you are RESELLING IT. That way you avoid all this drama on the forum and inconvenience your customer is experiencing by not having the watch need to go to service immediately to sort out an issue.

Quote:
Originally Posted by subtona View Post
Looking at these series of pictures, my conclusion is they were purposely designed to abscure the crown. Some are perfectly clear and others are obsurdly blurry and utterly useless.

In the end, it is just a crown, easily replaced and all is good. This whole situation is a big deal over a relatively small problem and small some of money. It never should have come to this.

These 2 astute gentlemen are right on
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Old 12 November 2018, 01:29 AM   #115
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can anyone else see the edge of the dent in the first pic?
I noticed that too. Certainly looks like the dents were there before watch shipped
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Old 12 November 2018, 02:21 AM   #116
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Wow, didn't know there's still replies here.

Guys, if you read what i said. I admitted that it was my mistake for not taking the responsibility to do a full inspection of the watch upon arrival.
That part is on me.

I don't usually do louping, i do a general check on the watch condition and most scratches or what not usually comes up pretty easily. But again, my mistake for leaving out the crown. It's pretty hard or rare to damage or have a dented crown so it wasn't on my radar of checks.

However so, the fact that the dent is there before the deal was made. so many instances that shows the dent in photos that Alex21 has posted (some are intentionally or unintentionally blurred).

but i have replaced the crown and etc at rolex service centre. everything is fine now.
Lesson learnt, to do a full inspection and louping before telling the seller (especially new ones) that the watch is good.

Thank you all for chiming in your views and thoughts.

:)
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Old 12 November 2018, 02:22 AM   #117
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I wouldn't hesitate to deal with Gaoxing84. I, along with many friends on this forum, have dealt with him on many watches with zero issues. Why? because we've all clearly depicted the watch (including any blemishes if any).

If I was the seller I wouldn've forked up $150 and owned up to the issue at hand. The sellers original AD was a bit deceiving but I'll give him the benefit of the doubt that it was unintentional. However, after reading through this thread, no offense but I probably won't be doing any deals with you in the future.

When selling watches I always imagine myself on the other side of the deal and think of what the potential buyer would want to see before he wires thousands of dollars to a stranger. This is why communication and clear pictures are key.

I agree with the seller that he should stick with face to face deals if he ever plans on selling more watches.
hey man thanks! many sellers, i shall not name who, might sent a watch with more damages than stated but they always find a way to fix it. So both parties are happy.

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Old 12 November 2018, 09:48 PM   #118
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For the seller :
I've seen your listing.Your photos are very clear every angle but not for the crown.You can't prove it and nothing to defend yourself.

For the buyer :
You should have check watch carefully since you received it.You can't let this pass for 2 days and said "hey!! the crown is damage" .You can't blame anyone but yourself.It is $8K watch not $80.



For Alex,I recommend spit it half and you got your credit back.This is easy and simple.



This is only my opinion.I've check very very carefully on every photo of listing.

The photo 5th and 10th.The crown isn't full circle as it should.I guess,Which means it already dents in the first place.

The seller takes many photos and angle.They are all clear photos but not for the crown,why ? Guys,I guess most of you holding the same model.Why don't we just photo it as the same angle and take a good look.You will find out what the truth is.
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Old 15 November 2018, 03:25 PM   #119
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Problems with BOTH parties here.

1) Seller. Better pics. NO EXCUSES for sending a pics of that low in quality. The iphone 4 takes better Macro pics than that. Sending blurry photos leaves you open to issues like you are experiencing now. If it doesn't look good, don't send it until it does. PERIOD...unless of course it was done to hide the damage...again, the bad pics leave you open to all kinds of nasty issues and questions of intention. That all came from a blurry pic. Don't sell it if they can't see it clearly.

2) Buyer (who is a reseller). Not good that you took delivery of the watch on the 5th, said it was "all good", then noticed the big ding on the crown when you were louping it WITH your customer on the 7th.... So what constituted your "all good" inspection upon receipt? Once you said "all good", that watch is "all good" from the perspective of who you bought it from...you really shouldn't go back and ask for $$$ off at that point. You should have caught that ding when you took receipt of the watch, especially since you are RESELLING IT. That way you avoid all this drama on the forum and inconvenience your customer is experiencing by not having the watch need to go to service immediately to sort out an issue.


Very well put!
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