fake dial on 16800

[007Sub]

http://www.ebay.com/itm/VINTAGE-ROLE...item2ecc8ae67d

fake n' bake

[kooltzar]

Why you think it is fake?

[TimeToGo]

Dial may be fine..

[crowncollection]

What are the concerns ?


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[socalwatchcollector]

Just patina?

[007Sub]

Negative... look at the L under the rolex Coronet. Way off center.. not to mention the lume plot dimensions are wrong. See correct photo here for reference.

[007Sub]

http://i213.photobucket.com/albums/c...2/DSC07443.jpg

[007Sub]

Maybe its just the angle? I don't know I've never seen the lume actually touch the coronet and the L that far left... what do you all think?

Also the font of the date wheel appears somewhat different.... thoughts?

[southtexas]

Originally Posted by 007Sub

Maybe its just the angle? I don't know I've never seen the lume actually touch the coronet and the L that far left... what do you all think?

Also the font of the date wheel appears somewhat different.... thoughts?

I agree on all three. I noticed the coronet and L right off; didn't bother to look further.


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[crowncollection]

L off to the left is a know variant


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[kooltzar]

There are different dial variants for this reference, also one with the L more left.

[southtexas]

As mentioned, does the 12 oclock marker strike anyone else as odd? General thickness of the hour markers? See the difference at 9 and 6 bt the two watches.

Does the crown seem to be floating between the guards too much? Guards look too small.

Letters in SCOC? They don't look exactly right to me...granted, that might be due to pic quality.

Seller moves a lot of Rolex with perfect feedback, but this one might've snuck past him?

[springer]

Originally Posted by crowncollection

L off to the left is a know variant


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The watch appears genuine and I would agree with Dave. I would buy it but I'm more of a GMT guy.

[007Sub]

Im not convinced folks... that 12 is very odd to come so close to the coronet.. the date wheel is sans serif... the L is way left... A lot of other things look right but thus dial looks weird to me...

[Justso]

I have a few issues with this dial myself, but also the watch itself.

Let's compare two 16800s of the similar vintage

High def image of our suspect dial & watch



High def image of a vintage 16800



* The 12 lume is literally almost touching the coronet, and while I've seen lumes similar, I haven't seen one that is that close AND ever so slightly off center to the right of the tip of the coronet. The 12 lume should carry a center line exactly down through the center tip of the coronet

* Compare the 12 lume in pic #1 vs the 12 lume in pic #2. In pic #2, each tip of the 12 lume is razor sharp.

* Look at the second O in CHRONOMETER. The tips of the top & bottom quadrant of the O extend above and below the N and the M next to it.

* The Sans Serif date wheel is off. Maybe it's a service calendar wheel, who knows, but it definitely isn't matched to a vintage 16800.

* The crown guards are problematic. This is always a red flag. A real sub has no gap between the crown & the guards. See how the 16800 in pic #2, the crown guards flare out, extend further and "hug" the crown? This is not the case in pic #1. There is a noticeable gap.

* The break angle of the inside of the bottom crown guard looks different and more shallow from the break angle of the inside of the top crown guard.

* Notice how the bottom crown guard is shorter in horizontal length (extending outward) than the top guard is in pic #1, while in pic #2, it is perfectly centered on the crown.

* The oxidation on the hands doesn't match. The second hand has a noticeably more pronounced patina than the hour & second hand. Notice in pic #2, the hands all have even patina, meaning that those are the original set of hands that have aged uniformly over time. In pic #1, the minute & hour hands are much cleaner than the second hand. The second hand is dramatically worse. While patinas are not always uniform, obviously, this is quite a discrepancy.

* The magnification of the cyclops seems a hair off. Look at pic #2, how the 29 jumps right out. Granted its on an angle and the calendar font is correct, but still, you see how the magnification pops the 29 out at you. Pic #1 is close, but again, notice how we keep coming back to "close."

* Look at the detail on the hour hand in pic #1, and compare it to the crispness of the hour hand in pic #2. In pic #2, the hour hand is even, thin & crisp.

While I cannot and will not say 100% for certain that this is a fake, what I can say is that the crown guards are very bothersome. It could be authentic, but there's enough wrong with this one for me to immediately pass on it.

[Presa canary]

Sorry guys... But I think this one is real. Even with all the well pointed out differences, this is a trusted seller. Let's remember these were real tool watches at one point. The attention to every detail wasn't always there. You can find variances in a number of these from one to the other. As far as the lume being crisp, I've seen a number of authentic vintage pieces where they're not perfectly crisp. But you're right about that second o being larger, but to me all of the writing doesn't look that clean. I've seen this before as well.

[springer]

Originally Posted by Presa canary

Sorry guys... But I think this one is real. Even with all the well pointed out differences, this is a trusted seller. Let's remember these were real tool watches at one point. The attention to every detail wasn't always there. You can find variances in a number of these from one to the other. As far as the lume being crisp, I've seen a number of authentic vintage pieces where they're not perfectly crisp. But you're right about that second o being larger, but to me all of the writing doesn't look that clean. I've seen this before as well.

The seller, endurence, has had items on ebay that are incorrect, whether it be aftermarket parts and/or mismatched parts. You have to watch their items closely.

[Presa canary]

Originally Posted by springer

The seller, endurance, has had items on ebay that are incorrect, whether it be aftermarket parts and/or mismatched parts. You have to watch their items closely.

That maybe correct. I haven't looked to buy from them, nor checked their inventory. They just have a good reputation

[springer]

Originally Posted by Presa canary

That maybe correct. I haven't looked to buy from them, nor checked their inventory. They just have a good reputation

I don't believe this is a case of "maybe correct." With respect for your opinion, I would disagree and say that my comment was correct regarding mismatched or aftermarket parts. Here are just two endurence listings currently on ebay. One has accessories much newer than the watch and the other has an aftermarket dial. I'm sure there are more listed items by endurence that could be posted here if someone wants to look. Additionally, I have also had issues with them on a watch purchase in the past.

They have also been posted on in the Watchout section before as noted in the one thread included here, and there are others.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/ROLEX-GMT-MA...item2eccc72f9e

http://www.ebay.com/itm/ROLEX-LADIES...item2eccc72fc9

http://www.ebay.com/itm/VINTAGE-RARE...p2047675.l2557

https://www.rolexforums.com/showthre...ight=endurence

[Presa canary]

Originally Posted by springer

I don't believe this is a case of "maybe correct." With respect for your opinion, I would disagree and say that my comment was correct regarding mismatched or aftermarket parts. Here are just two endurence listings currently on ebay. One has accessories much newer than the watch and the other has an aftermarket dial. I'm sure there are more listed items by endurence that could be posted here if someone wants to look. Additionally, I have also had issues with them on a watch purchase in the past.

They have also been posted on in the Watchout section before as noted in the one thread included here, and there are others.

[url]http://www.ebay.com/itm/ROLEX-GMT-MASTER-STAINLESS-STEEL-BLACK-DIAL-with-BLACK-RED-BEZEL-/201004101534?pt=Wristwatches&hash=item2eccc72f9e[/url

http://www.ebay.com/itm/ROLEX-LADIES...item2eccc72fc9

http://www.ebay.com/itm/VINTAGE-RARE...p2047675.l2557

https://www.rolexforums.com/showthre...ight=endurence

I'm not sure what you're disagreeing with? I clearly stated you may be correct and I haven't looked through his inventory.... But to me, and I'm assuming you reading your above post, think this watch is real.

[joseluu]

I am just glad to be an observer here. Trying to learn, but not able to speak on this one.

I must confess, though, that if I were the prospective buyer, I would pass. Only a feeling...