Rolex Tiffany Archive Papers

[Richard Carver]

Originally Posted by Wigwag

They wouldn't verify a serial number over the phone unfortunately. You'd have to take a punt, buy the watch and send it in for servicing. If they service the watch with the dial still in place, you know they've checked their archives and the watch is good

Some proof please.

[ar.parask13]

Originally Posted by Wigwag

They wouldn't verify a serial number over the phone unfortunately. You'd have to take a punt, buy the watch and send it in for servicing. If they service the watch with the dial still in place, you know they've checked their archives and the watch is good

Not quite sure that this is the way it works


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[fmc000]

Originally Posted by 77T

Good deal and fair enough.

Agree that my experience was a single contact with RUSA.

However, it would be a reasonable deduction that RUSA keeps s/n information tracking to the AD who eventually sold it.




Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

In afraid it wouldn't in my opinion. It's a reasonable deduction to say that RUSA can provide information about the s/n or the watches sold in a specific timeframe and, if you want, for a specific area of the country, not more.

Let's say that tour watch was sold ten years ago, are you comfortable with saying that your experience proves that Rolex has info about a watch sold in the eighties?

I hope I make myself clear, I'm not an English native speaker and more often than not I have problems to explain what my actual thoughts are.

Inviato dal mio SM-T719 utilizzando Tapatalk

[fmc000]

Originally Posted by Richard Carver

Some proof please.

I'm sorry Richard, you won't get any. It seems that for some people it's not necessary to back their claims with sold evidences, Facebook culture at its best.

Inviato dal mio SM-T719 utilizzando Tapatalk

[77T]

Originally Posted by fmc000

In afraid it wouldn't in my opinion. It's a reasonable deduction to say that RUSA can provide information about the s/n or the watches sold in a specific timeframe and, if you want, for a specific area of the country, not more.

Let's say that tour watch was sold ten years ago, are you comfortable with saying that your experience proves that Rolex has info about a watch sold in the eighties?

I hope I make myself clear, I'm not an English native speaker and more often than not I have problems to explain what my actual thoughts are.

Inviato dal mio SM-T719 utilizzando Tapatalk

Well for Tiffany dialed Rolex we are only talking USA. So my experience with RUSA and within the span of time Tiffany was stamping dials (or Rolex on behalf of Tiffany).

Also, see my post #78 - the ages of the watches. This is a long time to be keeping the data.

Lastly, all good distributors would know where their orders were sent. To presume RUSA kept no records is counterintuitive.

So...for the purpose of a logical conclusion ... if one agrees the premises are true, the terms are clear, and the rules of deductive logic are followed, then the conclusion reached is necessarily true.

Just my 2¢ using aristotelian logic.




Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

[GoingPlaces]

I guess a broader question might be does Rolex have a thorough record of every watch ever produced with detailed distribution info and if not when did they start? How many watches are we talking here? 40 million? Guessing.

[Richard Carver]

Originally Posted by 77T

Well for Tiffany dialed Rolex we are only talking USA. So my experience with RUSA and within the span of time Tiffany was stamping dials (or Rolex on behalf of Tiffany).

Also, see my post #78 - the ages of the watches. This is a long time to be keeping the data.

Lastly, all good distributors would know where their orders were sent. To presume RUSA kept no records is counterintuitive.

So...for the purpose of a logical conclusion ... if one agrees the premises are true, the terms are clear, and the rules of deductive logic are followed, then the conclusion reached is necessarily true.

Just my 2¢ using aristotelian logic.




Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

So using your 'logic' of the tens of thousands of fake Tiffany stamped dials that have been submitted for Rolex service over the last 30 years have all been either denied service or forced to buy a new dial, right? Where are those guys? Rolex would provide that information in their estimate so let's see some.:)

[harry in montreal]

Richard, it’s pointless, if you don’t understand the value of proper provenance then they must Be blissfully enjoying their collections. Ignoring the ease switching parts and dials, who cares? Ignoring the scores of collectors that tried to validate with Tiffany for years?

I’m happy if others are drawn to the Tiffany dials, I will focus on other other models.

[77T]

Originally Posted by Richard Carver

So using your 'logic' of the tens of thousands of fake Tiffany stamped dials that have been submitted for Rolex service over the last 30 years have all been either denied service or forced to buy a new dial, right? Where are those guys? Rolex would provide that information in their estimate so let's see some.:)

No, I’m not suggesting the RSC tracks backwards for every dial on a watch stamped Tiffany.

I was answering the earlier question about Rolex knowing which watches were sent to Tiffany. Since my personal experience was RUSA was able to track back to an AD for my stolen watches, then it was logical that they have the same data for Tiffany, too.

I don’t believe the RSC owes any duty to an owner presenting a Tiffany watch for service other than their standard process. I believe the RSC will identify any non-OEM part during disassembly (to the watchmaker’s best effort) in order to require replacement of aftermarket parts.

You have a good point that anyone might stamp Tiffany on an authentic dial and it would pass by RSC unnoticed.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

[Richard Carver]

Originally Posted by 77T

No, I’m not suggesting the RSC tracks backwards for every dial on a watch stamped Tiffany.

I was answering the earlier question about Rolex knowing which watches were sent to Tiffany. Since my personal experience was RUSA was able to track back to an AD for my stolen watches, then it was logical that they have the same data for Tiffany, too.

I don’t believe the RSC owes any duty to an owner presenting a Tiffany watch for service other than their standard process. I believe the RSC will identify any non-OEM part during disassembly (to the watchmaker’s best effort) in order to require replacement of aftermarket parts.

You have a good point that anyone might stamp Tiffany on an authentic dial and it would pass by RSC unnoticed.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

That is exactly what you were suggesting.

[Wigwag]

Originally Posted by Richard Carver

Some proof please.

Prove it isn't true. Phone RSC and ask them.

[Wigwag]

Originally Posted by fmc000

I'm sorry Richard, you won't get any. It seems that for some people it's not necessary to back their claims with sold evidences, Facebook culture at its best.

Inviato dal mio SM-T719 utilizzando Tapatalk

I'm not sure how anyone could evidence an internal RSC procedure. Ask them if you don't believe me

[77T]

Originally Posted by Richard Carver

That is exactly what you were suggesting.

To clarify...

I stated that Tiffany would validate through their archives. Not that Rolex would.

As this thread wandered into Rolex’s ability, I provided a personal experience where RUSA was able to track a couple of stolen watches for me. But I never stated Rolex would do that in the way Tiffany does.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

[Richard Carver]

Originally Posted by 77T

To clarify...

I stated that Tiffany would validate through their archives. Not that Rolex would.

As this thread wandered into Rolex’s ability, I provided a personal experience where RUSA was able to track a couple of stolen watches for me. But I never stated Rolex would do that in the way Tiffany does.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

So people should send their Rolex to Tiffany for service? That is your suggestion?

[Richard Carver]

Originally Posted by Wigwag

Prove it isn't true. Phone RSC and ask them.

Why would I, I'm not the one making unproveable statements. :)

[Wigwag]

Originally Posted by Richard Carver

Why would I, I'm not the one making unproveable statements. :)

You can't disprove my statement.

[77T]

Originally Posted by Richard Carver

So people should send their Rolex to Tiffany for service? That is your suggestion?

You are not understanding this in the spirit it is offered. Have good rest of your day.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

[Richard Carver]

Originally Posted by 77T

You are not understanding this in the spirit it is offered. Have good rest of your day.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

:)

[Richard Carver]

Originally Posted by Wigwag

You can't disprove my statement.

LOL, I wanted to pursue this to this end because I'm genuinely concerned some noob looking for info on fake Tiffanys might run across this poppycock and make an expensive mistake thinking Rolex will authenticate his shiny new fake Tiffany..

I don't think that's a possibility now. :)

[Wigwag]

Originally Posted by Richard Carver

LOL, I wanted to pursue this to this end because I'm genuinely concerned some noob looking for info on fake Tiffanys might run across this poppycock and make an expensive mistake thinking Rolex will authenticate his shiny new fake Tiffany..

I don't think that's a possibility now. :)

RSC will be quite happy to authenticate a Tiffany dial during a full service. If you don't believe me, ask them yourself. I know its hard to admit when you're wrong sometimes, but this is just getting silly now.

End thread

[harry in montreal]

No. Those dials should be treated very carefully. Anyone buying one needs papers or else they risk getting ripped off. Anyone on this forum knows that Carver is a reliable source, but if wigwag is happy with his approach to authenticate his purchases, then I’m happy for him.

[Wigwag]

Originally Posted by harry in montreal

No. Those dials should be treated very carefully. Anyone buying one needs papers or else they risk getting ripped off. Anyone on this forum knows that Carver is a reliable source, but if wigwag is happy with his approach to authenticate his purchases, then I’m happy for him.

Personally, I would never buy one of these watches unless it had rock solid, original papers. If I were presented with one, I would take it to RSC and submit it for a service, knowing that they will only service the watch if the dial is correct. These RSC papers wouldn't be worth much either in truth, as it would be easy enough to switch the dial post-service, nor would they reference the dial being Tiffany branded.

You'd know yourself that the dial was genuine and the watch supplied by Tiffany, but not much more.

[Richard Carver]

Originally Posted by Wigwag

RSC will be quite happy to authenticate a Tiffany dial during a full service. If you don't believe me, ask them yourself. I know its hard to admit when you're wrong sometimes, but this is just getting silly now.

End thread

LOL I see, you lose, declare victory and flounce out. This has been hilarious. :)

[Wigwag]

Originally Posted by Richard Carver

LOL I see, you lose, declare victory and flounce out. This has been hilarious. :)

I lose? I wasn't aware there was a game? I only post facts - none of which you have been able to counter.

Agree, this has been hilarious, any credibility you may have had, has been lost.

You're blocked, bye

[harry in montreal]

Which is you local Rolex dealer that authenticates these dials? Are you comfortable sharing the town you are in?

[Richard Carver]

Originally Posted by Wigwag

I lose? I wasn't aware there was a game? I only post facts - none of which you have been able to counter.

Agree, this has been hilarious, any credibility you may have had, has been lost.

You're blocked, bye

You posted guesses, speculations and hopeful nonsense for all to see. :)

[watch-guy.com]

Late to the party.

A friend of mine bought a ref 18038 with a Tiffany dial from?? ebay - not excactly sure where

When he took it to Rolex, they verified it was not correcty and took the dial off the watch and sold him a new dial

I never saw the original watch so it could have been a really bad fake btu it may have also been a pretty good representation of a Tiffany dial- we will never knwo

The fact is Rolex Australia noted it was a fake and removed it

Julian

[miamiclay]

“Caveat Emptor” is a rule with few (if any) exceptions, imo.

As to paperwork, I once handled a matter for a printing and paper supply company, and in the warehouse were boxes with old blank invoice/receipt pads from the 1960s-‘80s, including Tiffany, Harry Winston, etc. - the old ones with carbon paper.

(The only thing I saved was one box of “Lunar Laid” bond in Apollo White, presumably from the moon landing era.)
.
.

[330ci]

Originally Posted by Richard Carver

Why would I, I'm not the one making unproveable statements. :)

Yes you are, where is your proof that Rolex will service a watch with an illegitimate Tiffany stamping?

Originally Posted by Richard Carver

You posted guesses, speculations and hopeful nonsense for all to see. :)

As have you, only your posting your baseless opinions as fact. Attacking anyone with a constructive theory and likely are spreading complete misinformation according to this gentleman from Australia

[330ci]

Originally Posted by fmc000

In afraid it wouldn't in my opinion. It's a reasonable deduction to say that RUSA can provide information about the s/n or the watches sold in a specific timeframe and, if you want, for a specific area of the country, not more.

Let's say that tour watch was sold ten years ago, are you comfortable with saying that your experience proves that Rolex has info about a watch sold in the eighties?

I hope I make myself clear, I'm not an English native speaker and more often than not I have problems to explain what my actual thoughts are.

Inviato dal mio SM-T719 utilizzando Tapatalk

Serial numbers are very important to manufacturers. Without a doubt Rolex has watch records dating back to their infancy, record keeping has always been thorough with watch/jewelry companies. Not only do they know where each watch was shipped, they know the movement number that went in each watch, and can verify all of this if they really wanted. There’s a reason important watches are sent to Geneva to be authenticated and serviced at a cost of $10,000.

SN ranges for certain features, Batch numbers for specific models, production numbers, etc we’re all kept by Rolex. The only reason they wouldn’t have it is if it was destroyed in a fire, or haven’t uploaded their archives to an electronic database yet.