Shady grey dealer experience

[Edgeworth]

I recently purchased a 36mm DJ 126200 off eBay. Exactly the version I wanted for about 10% under retail, box but no card. Well, if it seems to good to be true, it probably is. My first mistake was this watch didn’t have authentication from eBay. Anyway I got it, and it was in beautiful condition, although very likely at least lightly polished. But it was losing about 3-4 seconds per day and had a weird noticeable occasional “stutter” in the seconds hand. This is a big grey dealer on eBay, and they were fantastic about the return. Made it real easy but just turned out to be a waste of time.

Anyway in preowned buy the seller not the watch. There are great and reputable sellers like Bobs and DavidSW and I rebought same watch from one of these dealers. 2023 new complete set and I love it although paid about 10% over retail.

I do have a relationship with an AD and a decent purchase history there. I mean I’m not a big 100k high roller spender but I bought my wife an 8k pair of earrings there about a year and a half ago. Plus my family has used this store for years, including 3 generations of wedding rings (my mom, wife, and daughter all wear a ring from this store, and I’ve told them this story). But for whatever reason they have never come through for me with the call, just keep telling me I’m on the list. Not sure what the deal is there. My watch buddy tells me I just need to visit in person more often as opposed to text or email. But honestly I despise that game. I hate the whole concept of having to be a smoocher to get someone to sell me something. I’d almost rather pay more from a reliable grey.

I love Rolex watches but hate the way this whole thing operates. I am hoping there will be a day in the near future when you can walk into an AD and have at least a decent number of Rolex watches, obviously not a steel Daytona or GMT, that you can buy at retail without begging for it.

[garyk]

Originally Posted by Edgeworth

I recently purchased a 36mm DJ 126200 off eBay. Exactly the version I wanted for about 10% under retail, box but no card. Well, if it seems to good to be true, it probably is. My first mistake was this watch didn’t have authentication from eBay. Anyway I got it, and it was in beautiful condition, although very likely at least lightly polished. But it was losing about 3-4 seconds per day and had a weird noticeable occasional “stutter” in the seconds hand. This is a big grey dealer on eBay, and they were fantastic about the return. Made it real easy but just turned out to be a waste of time.

Anyway in preowned buy the seller not the watch. There are great and reputable sellers like Bobs and DavidSW and I rebought same watch from one of these dealers. 2023 new complete set and I love it although paid about 10% over retail.

I do have a relationship with an AD and a decent purchase history there. I mean I’m not a big 100k high roller spender but I bought my wife an 8k pair of earrings there about a year and a half ago. Plus my family has used this store for years, including 3 generations of wedding rings (my mom, wife, and daughter all wear a ring from this store, and I’ve told them this story). But for whatever reason they have never come through for me with the call, just keep telling me I’m on the list. Not sure what the deal is there. My watch buddy tells me I just need to visit in person more often as opposed to text or email. But honestly I despise that game. I hate the whole concept of having to be a smoocher to get someone to sell me something. I’d almost rather pay more from a reliable grey.

I love Rolex watches but hate the way this whole thing operates. I am hoping there will be a day in the near future when you can walk into an AD and have at least a decent number of Rolex watches, obviously not a steel Daytona or GMT, that you can buy at retail without begging for it.

So here we are in the 2023 holiday season. I attended an event with my wife at a Rolex AD Jewelry store last night and was told by a very good old friend and SA, he can get me the BLNR if I buy 50 grand worth of jewelry. So games are still being played! Unbelievable!!

[cdmorenot]

Hey OP ... Sorry about the negative experience! Don't let it ruin the fun for you.

While I believe every dealer out there should be doing their due diligence before sending out a watch and confirming it is 100% it is inevitable that one may slip. I'm glad they made it right for you... ironically you only lost a little bit of time.

I think grey dealers have become an important part of collecting and the buying experience in general. I've built AD relationships in the past only to have Rolex come and pull their AD status. There's not point in rebuilding. The grey dealers that I deal with have survived three ADs getting pulled since 2015 and they are always reliable.

In 2023 I got "the call" for a few interesting pieces. To get to that there were some watches I didn't really want such as a Tag and a Bulgari mixed with a few earrings for the wife, a few Cartier watches for her and the occasional "stocking stuffer". Some I accepted, some I declined - But at least my upfront spending has been taken care of.

If I'm itching for a piece and I am not willing to wait, there's always the usual suspects that I've had good experiences with. Than Do, Aamir and Brian ... If I'm not in a rush, I'll put my word at the AD and let it ride out.

Instead of looking at the entire AD visit as being a "smoocher" is there anyone at this AD that you could just hang with and talk watches, drink a few cups of coffee and shoot the shit?

[BraveBold]

Originally Posted by garyk

So here we are in the 2023 holiday season. I attended an event with my wife at an Rolex AD Jewelry store last night and was told by a very good old friend and SA, he can get me the BLNR I want if I buy 50 grand worth of jewelry. So games are still being played! Unbelievable!!

Some desperation there re: blnr messaging. If my SA told me that I’d lol.

With luxury market softening they should welcome buyers who are stable, not relying on flips to fund…

[cdmorenot]

Originally Posted by BraveBold

Some desperation there re: blnr messaging. If my SA told me that I’d lol.

With luxury market softening they should welcome buyers who are stable, not relying on flips to fund…

Seriously! You want the clients that will spend, no matter the weather.

Most these SA don't give a crap... They're working a shift and moving on. Most of the pieces get allocated in the back, at the manager / owner's office.

[CarlOver]

Not all AD are like that. The frustration is there since we have heard it from many. No 36 DJ in 3 year period offered to you just sounds weird. Maybe time to reach out to store manager and have an honest discussion unless you don’t want any more Rolex watches.

[time_and_cars]

Originally Posted by garyk

So here we are in the 2023 holiday season. I attended an event with my wife at an Rolex AD Jewelry store last night and was told by a very good old friend and SA, he can get me the BLNR I want if I buy 50 grand worth of jewelry. So games are still being played! Unbelievable!!

I feel its depends if the AD is owned and managed by a family vs some sales representative ......

[travisb]

At least you ended up with the watch you wanted and the return was easy on the other one. Enjoy it!

[Edgeworth]

Originally Posted by cdmorenot

Hey OP ... Sorry about the negative experience! Don't let it ruin the fun for you.

While I believe every dealer out there should be doing their due diligence before sending out a watch and confirming it is 100% it is inevitable that one may slip. I'm glad they made it right for you... ironically you only lost a little bit of time.

I think grey dealers have become an important part of collecting and the buying experience in general. I've built AD relationships in the past only to have Rolex come and pull their AD status. There's not point in rebuilding. The grey dealers that I deal with have survived three ADs getting pulled since 2015 and they are always reliable.

In 2023 I got "the call" for a few interesting pieces. To get to that there were some watches I didn't really want such as a Tag and a Bulgari mixed with a few earrings for the wife, a few Cartier watches for her and the occasional "stocking stuffer". Some I accepted, some I declined - But at least my upfront spending has been taken care of.

If I'm itching for a piece and I am not willing to wait, there's always the usual suspects that I've had good experiences with. Than Do, Aamir and Brian ... If I'm not in a rush, I'll put my word at the AD and let it ride out.

Instead of looking at the entire AD visit as being a "smoocher" is there anyone at this AD that you could just hang with and talk watches, drink a few cups of coffee and shoot the shit?

Thanks for the nice reply and the encouragement.

I’m not Bill Gates but I’ve been reasonably successful in my career. I’m good at my job because I have to be to, but what I’ve really been good at is building relationships. But I’m also an introvert by nature and building these relationships takes energy from me, it doesn’t fill my tank like it would for an extrovert. What fills my emotional and energy tank is spending time alone reading or just 1:1 talk with my wife. I honestly don’t want to expend energy socializing and building relationships at the AD.

And also it’s just the whole principle of the thing. My company has been very successful for over 100 years by putting the customer and member first in everything we do. When I’m the customer I want an experience like the experience that my company gives its customers. I want them going out of their way to make me feel good and to give me a good experience, as opposed to me trying to figure out how I can make myself nice enough and good enough for them to be willing to sell me something.

And that’s what really frustrates me about Rolex. I like what I like in watches, and it’s not always the “hot” watch. I would love to add a 126713 TT GMT to my collection at some point. When Rolex introduced that watch this spring I was like yah that’s my thing. But I was also like … I’m simply not going to be willing to put in the effort and the spend to get that at retail from my AD, so my only choice is paying 25% or more over retail from the grey and not really know the true history of the watch. And that’s not a super hot watch like a SS Daytona.

[enjoythemusic]

Originally Posted by Edgeworth

I love Rolex watches but hate the way this whole thing operates. I am hoping there will be a day in the near future when you can walk into an AD and have at least a decent number of Rolex watches, obviously not a steel Daytona or GMT, that you can buy at retail without begging for it.

That day is coming as things get back to normal. The past few years were obviously fuelled by easy currency MMT schemes.

Please be patient.

[garyk]

Originally Posted by BraveBold

Some desperation there re: blnr messaging. If my SA told me that I’d lol.

With luxury market softening they should welcome buyers who are stable, not relying on flips to fund…

I agree. I was flabbergasted. I remember when it was enough if you could spend the money!!

[garyk]

Originally Posted by Edgeworth

Thanks for the nice reply and the encouragement.

I’m not Bill Gates but I’ve been reasonably successful in my career. I’m good at my job because I have to be to, but what I’ve really been good at is building relationships. But I’m also an introvert by nature and building these relationships takes energy from me, it doesn’t fill my tank like it would for an extrovert. What fills my emotional and energy tank is spending time alone reading or just 1:1 talk with my wife. I honestly don’t want to expend energy socializing and building relationships at the AD.

And also it’s just the whole principle of the thing. My company has been very successful for over 100 years by putting the customer and member first in everything we do. When I’m the customer I want an experience like the experience that my company gives its customers. I want them going out of their way to make me feel good and to give me a good experience, as opposed to me trying to figure out how I can make myself nice enough and good enough for them to be willing to sell me something.

And that’s what really frustrates me about Rolex. I like what I like in watches, and it’s not always the “hot” watch. I would love to add a 126713 TT GMT to my collection at some point. When Rolex introduced that watch this spring I was like yah that’s my thing. But I was also like … I’m simply not going to be willing to put in the effort and the spend to get that at retail from my AD, so my only choice is paying 25% or more over retail from the grey and not really know the true history of the watch. And that’s not a super hot watch like a SS Daytona.

Bill Gates called, you’re doing great!

[S’portEye]

Sorry about your experience with the original dealer, however, it was anything but shady. In my book, when you have a problem with a particular product, and the seller takes it back no questions asked, that’s a good experience.

[Njkdog]

Was it a gray dealer? If it was then, why was it polished? If it was a secondhand dealer that makes sense that it would be polished. But a gray dealer wouldn’t have any reason to polish a new watch that they were selling you.

[SlashRothstein]

Originally Posted by S’portEye

Sorry about your experience with the original dealer, however, it was anything but shady. In my book, when you have a problem with a particular product, and the seller takes it back no questions asked, that’s a good experience.

110%

This reads more like a “My AD Sucks” thread than a “shady grey experience.”

Did you consider asking the grey for an additional discount and then getting the watch serviced?

At least they were “fantastic” about the return.

Not sure how this was shady, the watch could’ve been running fine when it left their store. They gave you the benefit of the doubt.

[omar-rye]

Originally Posted by Njkdog

Was it a gray dealer? If it was then, why was it polished? If it was a secondhand dealer that makes sense that it would be polished. But a gray dealer wouldn’t have any reason to polish a new watch that they were selling you.

The term grey dealer and pre-owned dealer are used interchangeably nowadays

[BillA]

Originally Posted by garyk

So here we are in the 2023 holiday season. I attended an event with my wife at a Rolex AD Jewelry store last night and was told by a very good old friend and SA, he can get me the BLNR if I buy 50 grand worth of jewelry. So games are still being played! Unbelievable!!

I hope you told him where to stick it

[mfnj]

Wait a second, maybe I missed something. This is what you said "I recently purchased a 36mm DJ 126200 off eBay. Exactly the version I wanted for about 10% under retail, box but no card. Well, if it seems to good to be true, it probably is. My first mistake was this watch didn’t have authentication from eBay. Anyway I got it, and it was in beautiful condition, although very likely at least lightly polished. But it was losing about 3-4 seconds per day and had a weird noticeable occasional “stutter” in the seconds hand. This is a big grey dealer on eBay, and they were fantastic about the return. Made it real easy but just turned out to be a waste of time."

It does not appear that you were purchasing a brand new watch and you even knew it was coming without a warranty. You say it might have been polished. OK. It was losing time, about 3-4 secs per day. Not that unusual. You say that the second hand had a stutter. Even happens on brand new watches from AD's and usually covered under warranty. Frustrating but not so shady. You contacted him and returned the watch and you said that they were fantastic about it.

We say here buy the seller who will stand by their products. That is exactly what this dealer did. Everybody's favorite dealers on this forum have stood up for products that were faulty. It happens to the best of them. This dealer stood up. So, why are they shady? That is an unfair characterization IMO. This certainly was a frustrating experience for you and maybe that should have been the title but I have had equally as frustrating experiences, and worse, dealing with AD's. Either way, enjoy your new watch!

[Edgeworth]

Originally Posted by mfnj

Wait a second, maybe I missed something. This is what you said "I recently purchased a 36mm DJ 126200 off eBay. Exactly the version I wanted for about 10% under retail, box but no card. Well, if it seems to good to be true, it probably is. My first mistake was this watch didn’t have authentication from eBay. Anyway I got it, and it was in beautiful condition, although very likely at least lightly polished. But it was losing about 3-4 seconds per day and had a weird noticeable occasional “stutter” in the seconds hand. This is a big grey dealer on eBay, and they were fantastic about the return. Made it real easy but just turned out to be a waste of time."

It does not appear that you were purchasing a brand new watch and you even knew it was coming without a warranty. You say it might have been polished. OK. It was losing time, about 3-4 secs per day. Not that unusual. You say that the second hand had a stutter. Even happens on brand new watches from AD's and usually covered under warranty. Frustrating but not so shady. You contacted him and returned the watch and you said that they were fantastic about it.

We say here buy the seller who will stand by their products. That is exactly what this dealer did. Everybody's favorite dealers on this forum have stood up for products that were faulty. It happens to the best of them. This dealer stood up. So, why are they shady? That is an unfair characterization IMO. This certainly was a frustrating experience for you and maybe that should have been the title but I have had equally as frustrating experiences, and worse, dealing with AD's. Either way, enjoy your new watch!

Thanks. Fair point, maybe “shady” was too strong. The seller paid for the return shipping and gave me a quick refund. However… I did see that the seller put the watch back up on eBay days after I returned it. Still no authentication whereas most of the watches they sell are authenticated. Did they somehow fix the problem? Maybe but I kind of doubt it. I think they are just hoping to sell to a watch newbie who won’t notice the occasional flicker in the seconds hand and that the watch is not operating within specs. I think that’s kind of shady but YMMV

[S’portEye]

Originally Posted by Edgeworth

Thanks. Fair point, maybe “shady” was too strong. The seller paid for the return shipping and gave me a quick refund. However… I did see that the seller put the watch back up on eBay days after I returned it. Still no authentication whereas most of the watches they sell are authenticated. Did they somehow fix the problem? Maybe but I kind of doubt it. I think they are just hoping to sell to a watch newbie who won’t notice the occasional flicker in the seconds hand and that the watch is not operating within specs. I think that’s kind of shady but YMMV

Lots of assumptions in that post. I see you’re doubling down on shady.

[AF_Rob]

Originally Posted by Edgeworth

Thanks. Fair point, maybe “shady” was too strong. The seller paid for the return shipping and gave me a quick refund. However… I did see that the seller put the watch back up on eBay days after I returned it. Still no authentication whereas most of the watches they sell are authenticated. Did they somehow fix the problem? Maybe but I kind of doubt it. I think they are just hoping to sell to a watch newbie who won’t notice the occasional flicker in the seconds hand and that the watch is not operating within specs. I think that’s kind of shady but YMMV

If they did nothing to remedy the problem, I would agree with you.

I had a similar experience recently with an overseas dealer. I knew within the hour that the watch was not working properly. Even the slightest bit of effort on the part of the seller would have saved us both time and money. The saving grace, like in your situation, they quickly refunded me.

I understand your frustration. Just be happy it isn’t worse. All part of our hobby, I guess.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Edgeworth]

Originally Posted by S’portEye

Lots of assumptions in that post. I see you’re doubling down on shady.

“Doubling down”? Lol, ok. Again maybe “shady” was too strong. And you will note that I never mentioned this grey dealer by name.

[S’portEye]

Yeah, doubling down. Read the last sentence of the post of yours that I quoted.

[culvercity]

I hear way too many horror stories from people going grey so I would never consider buying a Rolex from a non-AD. I simply refuse to put myself in a position to get Mazaled/ripped off!

[KatGirl]

Originally Posted by Edgeworth

I recently purchased a 36mm DJ 126200 off eBay. Exactly the version I wanted for about 10% under retail, box but no card. Well, if it seems to good to be true, it probably is. My first mistake was this watch didn’t have authentication from eBay. Anyway I got it, and it was in beautiful condition, although very likely at least lightly polished. But it was losing about 3-4 seconds per day and had a weird noticeable occasional “stutter” in the seconds hand. This is a big grey dealer on eBay, and they were fantastic about the return. Made it real easy but just turned out to be a waste of time.

Anyway in preowned buy the seller not the watch. There are great and reputable sellers like Bobs and DavidSW and I rebought same watch from one of these dealers. 2023 new complete set and I love it although paid about 10% over retail.

I do have a relationship with an AD and a decent purchase history there. I mean I’m not a big 100k high roller spender but I bought my wife an 8k pair of earrings there about a year and a half ago. Plus my family has used this store for years, including 3 generations of wedding rings (my mom, wife, and daughter all wear a ring from this store, and I’ve told them this story). But for whatever reason they have never come through for me with the call, just keep telling me I’m on the list. Not sure what the deal is there. My watch buddy tells me I just need to visit in person more often as opposed to text or email. But honestly I despise that game. I hate the whole concept of having to be a smoocher to get someone to sell me something. I’d almost rather pay more from a reliable grey.

I love Rolex watches but hate the way this whole thing operates. I am hoping there will be a day in the near future when you can walk into an AD and have at least a decent number of Rolex watches, obviously not a steel Daytona or GMT, that you can buy at retail without begging for it.

Am I missing something? I see nothing “shady” about this eBay dealer.
You, yourself, say he took the watch back, with no problem, and even paid return shipping. How is he shady? That’s an honorable seller.
What is the purpose of this thread?

Kat


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

[train-time]

Originally Posted by garyk

So here we are in the 2023 holiday season. I attended an event with my wife at a Rolex AD Jewelry store last night and was told by a very good old friend and SA, he can get me the BLNR if I buy 50 grand worth of jewelry. So games are still being played! Unbelievable!!

Hey Gary, do you think that they would give you a SS Daytona for $100K spend worth of jewelry? That's slightly less than half of what I was told by my local AD to get one at retail.

[Calatrava r]

Originally Posted by Njkdog

Was it a gray dealer? If it was then, why was it polished? If it was a secondhand dealer that makes sense that it would be polished. But a gray dealer wouldn’t have any reason to polish a new watch that they were selling you.

There is not really much of a true "grey" market in Rolex. Vitrtually, all of them are used watches which have been previously sold at retail. As stated above, gray market and used market mean the same thing nowadays.

[amh]

I would count this as a lesson learned if not a happy ending. Reputable ebay seller made you whole. Move on and buy from someone else next time, that's all. Expect to pay 10-20% more is my guess.

FWIW if I'd similar luck with ADs. Purchase history but I'm not a big fish. Playing "the game" has sucked the life out of me so I've pretty much given up. If/when things return to normal I'll take another look by my collection is actually complete and I don't 'need' anything. I've been quoted the 50k as well and that's what turned me off. Wife won't even step foot in an AD again. They've screwed their enthusiast base.

[1William]

If a watch sale from eBay is over 2k then it automatically goes to the Authenticator. I would assume that the purchase came from an eBay seller away from the site. If not, why would you not use the free service provided by eBay? This post, like so many others, is really about money and the cost of watches in the secondary market. We have many Trusted Sellers who can deliver the watch you want by lunch the day after you pay and the watch be exactly as described. They also stand behind the watch and if an issue arises they handle it. Utilizing an AD is always an option but if you have been in the watch game for more then a minute it is broadly understood what occurs. Neither right or wrong but just the way that it is. This is where we see another constant theme which is people get their emotions into it and it becomes how they feel as opposed to what they think. If you want a regular production watch, 36mm DJ, or really almost any other watch then just find it, get your best price from a reputable dealer, buy it, get it, wear it and enjoy. It is not hard. Good luck on finding the watch you want.

[6SpeedTA95]

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