Don't put blind trust in the "trusted sellers"

[ajg223]

In the fall I asked a "trusted seller" to source me a jubilee bracelet for a gmt. The seller says he has one and it could be mine for 1200. I thought ok it's not an easy bracelet to source in good condition so I take it without thinking twice. I specifically asked for a gmt jubilee and based on the price that's what I assumed I would get. Obviously, wrong. End links were correct, but bracelet was for a date just. I have written him several emails and can't even get a response.

Before you destroy me like you have others in the past I am not looking for sympathy or to out the seller. I know it's my own fault and an expensive lesson learned. I just want to make sure people do their due diligence regardless of the reputation of the seller on here. Learn from my mistake.

[jrs146]

Originally Posted by ajg223

In the fall I asked a "trusted seller" to source me a jubilee bracelet for a gmt. The seller says he has one and it could be mine for 1200. I thought ok it's not an easy bracelet to source in good condition so I take it without thinking twice. I specifically asked for a gmt jubilee and based on the price that's what I assumed I would get. Obviously, wrong. End links were correct, but bracelet was for a date just. I have written him several emails and can't even get a response.



Before you destroy me like you have others in the past I am not looking for sympathy or to out the seller. I know it's my own fault and an expensive lesson learned. I just want to make sure people do their due diligence regardless of the reputation of the seller on here. Learn from my mistake.

Actually I’m not sure at all why it would be your fault. If you were crystal clear that you wanted a GMT jubilee i.e. a “50” jubilee then that should be exactly what you get.

This hits home with as I just bought a 16710 GMT last week. It was accompanied by a jubilee. This specific jubilee was also for a date just with the GMT endlinks. I knew this when purchasing and the seller assured me if I wasn’t pleased he would take the jubilee back. Low and behold I discovered it was not a perfect fit due to the 1.8 mm pins, there was a slight rattle. The seller graciously refunded me for the jubilee no questions asked. Your deal should have been exactly the same.

I’m a big proponent that this forum has a duty to police itself. I would encourage you to reach out to the seller again and hopefully you will get a response. If you don’t though you should absolutely out the seller here.


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[ajg223]

My problem is that I didn't know it was wrong until very recently. It's been 5 months since I purchased it. I am hesitant to out the seller as he is thought very highly of and I'm just a guy who reads the forum for fun. I just want to make sure that people don't trust the name and think they are safe. I am pretty sure he isn't planning on doing the right thing. I have had the emails go unanswered.

[NKflyer]

I wouldn't automatically assume that the seller intentionally wronged you. Many trusted sellers deal in mostly newer watches so the seller may not even be aware of the intricacies of the "50" jubilee bracelet versus the one for datejusts. Trusted seller doesn't necessarily equal vintage watch expert. However, the fact that they won't return your emails or private messages is not excusable.

[Andrés G]

Originally Posted by NKflyer

Trusted seller doesn't necessarily equal vintage watch expert. However, the fact that they won't return your emails or private messages is not excusable.

I fully agree with this.

[jvmartin]

Originally Posted by NKflyer

I wouldn't automatically assume that the seller intentionally wronged you. Many trusted sellers deal in mostly newer watches so the seller may not even be aware of the intricacies of the "50" jubilee bracelet versus the one for datejusts. Trusted seller doesn't necessarily equal vintage watch expert. However, the fact that they won't return your emails or private messages is not excusable.

This is very true and I see it all the time... vintage pieces are always being judged as fake here on the "watchout" section because most people (even sellers) are only familiar with newer Rolex... there's tons of little nuances in vintage Rolex, especially 60s, 70s, and 80s models... the "50" Jubilee is just one of those small tweaks that is easy to overlook... even if it has been 5 months, the seller should at very least return a message and I expect will after seeing this thread..

[MonBK]

Reach out one last time and if no reply then name him.

I fail to see how this would be your fault!

[MonBK]

I have a question.

You said you bought the bracelet from Springer and then a few Hr's later you claim to be an idiot and it was some other trusted seller.

[cht]

Originally Posted by ajg223

My problem is that I didn't know it was wrong until very recently. It's been 5 months since I purchased it. I am hesitant to out the seller as he is thought very highly of and I'm just a guy who reads the forum for fun. I just want to make sure that people don't trust the name and think they are safe. I am pretty sure he isn't planning on doing the right thing. I have had the emails go unanswered.

5 months?

Most return polices are like a few days for luxury items.

[ajg223]

Again, not asking for a return. Just a PSA that even some of the"trusted" sellers should not be taken at their word. I am fully aware that I have no right to a return.

[ajg223]

Originally Posted by MonBK

I have a question.

You said you bought the bracelet from Springer and then a few Hr's later you claim to be an idiot and it was some other trusted seller.

IT WAS NOT SPRINGER. I had spoken to him about possibly getting one but went with this other seller. He is absolutely without blame and has never been anything but a gentleman to me.

[ajg223]

Originally Posted by NKflyer

I wouldn't automatically assume that the seller intentionally wronged you. Many trusted sellers deal in mostly newer watches so the seller may not even be aware of the intricacies of the "50" jubilee bracelet versus the one for datejusts. Trusted seller doesn't necessarily equal vintage watch expert. However, the fact that they won't return your emails or private messages is not excusable.

I agree wholeheartedly. I emailed him assuming it was a misunderstanding. The only thing that makes me feel it was intentional is the lack of response to my emails.

[GLADIATOR]

Originally Posted by ajg223

I agree wholeheartedly. I emailed him assuming it was a misunderstanding. The only thing that makes me feel it was intentional is the lack of response to my emails.

Tell the seller you have opened a thread here.
Give him the link, the chance to read it and respond.

Honesty always prevails

[ajg223]

Originally Posted by GLADIATOR

Tell the seller you have opened a thread here.
Give him the link, the chance to read it and respond.

Honesty always prevails

That's a good idea. I will do that.

[roaddog359]

Out the seller, he has a right to know and join the thread to explain his side and the members like to know what trusted sellers people have issues with. If the seller is right or wrong I like to know about issues like this and what the trusted seller does or doesnt do about it. Everything posted cant always be rosey for trusted sellers. Issues happen, and the forum needs to know pro and con to help vet the seller or not.

[c41006]

If you’ve given the seller every opportunity to respond to you and attempt to make things right, I think you need to let us know who it is.

[ajg223]

I feel that I need to give him until close of business tomorrow. He may be on vacation or have a family emergency or some other entirely valid reason he hasn't gotten back to me. I am still holding out hope that this is all an honest misunderstanding.

[ajg223]

Originally Posted by roaddog359

Out the seller, he has a right to know and join the thread to explain his side and the members like to know what trusted sellers people have issues with. If the seller is right or wrong I like to know about issues like this and what the trusted seller does or doesnt do about it. Everything posted cant always be rosey for trusted sellers. Issues happen, and the forum needs to know pro and con to help vet the seller or not.

He is aware of this thread. I emailed him the link. Assuming he has checked his email.

[GLADIATOR]

COOL
Lets see if he responds privately to you or by this thread - either is positive
Regards

[c41006]

Originally Posted by ajg223

I feel that I need to give him until close of business tomorrow. He may be on vacation or have a family emergency or some other entirely valid reason he hasn't gotten back to me. I am still holding out hope that this is all an honest misunderstanding.

What kind of timeframe are we talking about? When did you first attempt to contact him about the issue?

[ajg223]

Originally Posted by c41006

What kind of timeframe are we talking about? When did you first attempt to contact him about the issue?

It's only been 24 hours, but I am certain he is aware.

[c41006]

Originally Posted by ajg223

It's only been 24 hours, but I am certain he is aware.

Oh okay. In that case I think he deserves a bit more time like you said.

[greekbum]

This will be my only response here on this subject .There is no need to oust the seller I am the person who sold the gentleman the bracelet back in August 2017. Andrew Guignard reached out to me several times looking for a matte 16750 but mine were out of his budget. He then bought one without a band and reached out to me and asked me for a bracelet that would fit his 16750. We spoke on the phone as i had several i asked him if he wanted period correct and specific clasp codes band codes etc and told him what i had at the time. Took pics and sent them to him. He settled on a basically like new one I offered and sold to him for $1200. New bracelets are over $2000 right now from Rolex NY. I gave him a no risk 3 day return if he did not like it. He took the bracelet to his Rolex AD who sized it for him checked it out as he said and he told me he was happy and sent me a wrist shot. Fast forward to March 2018 about 7 months after he bought the bracelet. I just came home from family functions to find 3-4 emails all of them today (Sunday) Its a family day and i am not on the pc. He says i sold him a datejust bracelet and that $1200 was an awful lot wants a partial refund. Since i didn't respond (i guess within hours)he is starting a thread on the forums. For the record he got exactly what he asked for and a good deal at that. I would have to hunt through 1000s of pics to see the band i sold him but my records show a D link jubilee in like NOS condition. I took that band off of a GMT that was just serviced at Rolex with a receipt for a new jubilee bracelet. I gave a 3 day refund for any reason and lifetime on authenticity. Did he choose to return the band within 3 days for any reason? No. Is the bracelet fake? No, He even took it to his AD to install and size. The bracelet he bought is 100% authentic. There was nobody mislead sold an incorrect part etc. Andrew was a gentleman when we spoke on the phone who had previous watch buying references and i even took PayPal from him. Normally when somebody wants to discuss something they email, message or better yet call you. Its Sunday and I guess Andrew felt that since I didn't respond to him immediately on a Sunday about a band he bought 7 months ago he was going to start a thread warning people (I just want to make sure that people don't trust the name and think they are safe. I am pretty sure he isn't planning on doing the right thing.)

Originally Posted by ajg223

Again, not asking for a return. Just a PSA that even some of the"trusted" sellers should not be taken at their word. I am fully aware that I have no right to a return.

But in his emails he says he would be happy for a partial refund or another band?

Originally Posted by ajg223

I agree wholeheartedly. I emailed him assuming it was a misunderstanding. The only thing that makes me feel it was intentional is the lack of response to my emails.

Its Sunday aka Family day i don't check my emails all day BUT when i came home there was a few and a pm from the forum. Since you started a thread I responded here for you.

[GLADIATOR]

Well there you go.
Glad the seller got a heads up and chance to respond
Good Job
A

[ajg223]

That is the jist of the story but there are a few lies in there which certainly makes him appear to be without blame. Everyone knows who it is so there is no need to keep it going. If anyone wants specifics you can reach out to me via pm. I have all the correspondence.


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[GLADIATOR]

Post here any lies or incorrect facts

Keep it open

[roaddog359]

Yes, Let the facts fall where they may. If you have proof of lies, post it up. If not then close it out.

[greekbum]

Originally Posted by GLADIATOR

Post here any lies or incorrect facts

Keep it open

There is no lies from me period. Andrew are you ok? The only misleading statements and lies on TRF come from Andrew who is trying to paint a negative picture of me for selling him a bracelet.

He is in need of money he says (In his FS advert) and wants some back from me too. I take any attempt to dirty up my name personal so i did some quick research.

He is selling a watch on the forum. https://www.rolexforums.com/showthread.php?t=591146

When he bought this watch he was told that the matte dial was not correct for the serial number range by a forum member. 8.6 million is around 1985 for me. Thread here: https://www.rolexforums.com/showthread.php?t=556564

However when he posts his watch for sale on TRF Honest Andrew says:
I literally picked this up from an authorized Rolex Service Center today. There is no mention of a service or paperwork so what does it mean that he picked it up?

Serial Number puts it in the early 80's. Would be one of the later matte dials.
Andrew you know better
He knows already this is a false and misleading statement. An original matte dial 16750 is worth much more than a latter one with a dial added. So his statement is false and misleading as he left the serial out initially.

He then posts under it :It's a 8.6 million serial and while I know this seems to be out of range to be the original dial I believe the price has been adjusted to reflect this.
The Rolex service center confirmed it genuineness. It does have the original date wheel with open 6's and 9's.

With the next post starting with: I'm an idiot.

If somebody quickly bought this thinking they bought a cheap matte dial 16750 would honest Andrew refund him or say he didn't know?

Im sorry guys this was handled badly by Andrew who has said false and negative things about me and then said im a liar. I showed the above to let others be the judge of his character.

[Canook]

hmmmmmm? this will be interesting to see where this goes...... Greekbum im tending to believe that you have sincerity in your comments and im a firm believer of "buyers remorse" tends to cloud peoples judgement on "right and wrong and true and false".....

I believe your replies are credible and you dont need to resort to showing his "character" and that if he has evidence of "said" lies then show them if not he should retract his comments and everyone move on

thats my 2 cents from an outsider looking in

[116710er]