5522 à la mode, or à la carte?

[Tony64]

During a recent interview, Patek Philippe President Thierry Stern was asked about allocation for the newly released 5522.

Mr. Stern described his vision of the 5522 in steel as an "affordable" Patek, designed to be within reach of the new Patek enthusiast. A chance for those without the means to purchase one of Patek's more expensive complications to still have the opportunity to own something nice.

He then expanded his thoughts further:

"It has to be a split that is fair for everybody. So the task for our own agency here in New York would be first to dispatch to all the retailers. And then the retailers will have the task to allocate them. But I really hope that they will also allocate those pieces to somebody who is not a very big collector. It has to be also for someone who as I just said, who is young, who is going to start with Patek Philippe; we should also give him the chance to wear such a piece."

Without referencing any particular AD, I would ask Patek owners and forum readers to consider whether or not a conditional purchase of $20k of jewelry from an AD, prior to customer allocation of a 5522, is consistent with Thierry Stern's statement above.

I've read various opinions on this subject, some from members who are regrettably no longer with us, and I've seen an entire thread on the topic vanish into the ethers. In the hopes of getting less confrontation, and perhaps more meaningful insight, I've submitted the poll above and appreciate all who take the time to respond.

The results may prove helpful for any AD contemplating such a practice and could provide relevant feedback to Thierry Stern in the process.

Let go any temptation to rant or dog pile.

Let your vote be your voice.

Let the carnage end.

[codecow]

Lol... It was nice knowing you

[Bryant Park]

I think it is entirely up to the AD how they want to treat their customers as long as they are entirely honest and upfront about it. I would however, as a customer never deal with that AD. We are all adults and I believe in markets and capitalism.

My hope would be that the AD looses enough customers that they would refrain from such demands.

My response is predicated on PP being ok with this practice. I have heard a variety of conflicting answers on this point.

I don't think there is anything immoral in this activity as long as false promises aren't made. It is however terrible business practice not to foster customer relationships and reward loyalty

My 2 cents .

[Tony64]

Originally Posted by codecow

Lol... It was nice knowing you

So be it. I do not ask for banishment but if I'm a judged unworthy of this forum then I accept my fate.

A forum without voice is a forum without function. If this is in fact my last post then it was a indeed a privilege to know you as well.

[Tony64]

Originally Posted by Bryant Park

I think it is entirely up to the AD how they want to treat their customers as long as they are entirely honest and upfront about it. I would however, as a customer never deal with that AD. We are all adults and I believe in markets and capitalism.

My hope would be that the AD looses enough customers that they would refrain from such demands.

My response is predicated on PP being ok with this practice. I have heard a variety of conflicting answers on this point.

I don't think there is anything immoral in this activity as long as false promises aren't made. It is however terrible business practice not to foster customer relationships and reward loyalty

My 2 cents .

Excellent points, as usual eloquently stated, worth substantially more than 2 cents, and with which I completely concur.

Specifically though, my intent was to probe whether or not we accept that the (theoretical) policy stated is consistent with the views expressed by the president of Patek Philippe as it relates to the 5522.

[Bryant Park]

Originally Posted by Tony64

Excellent points, as usual eloquently stated, worth substantially more than 2 cents, and with which I completely concur.

Specifically though, my intent was to probe whether or not we accept that the (theoretical) policy stated is consistent with the views expressed by the president of Patek Philippe as it relates to the 5522.

I deliberately gave TS a pass. Business leaders frequently expouse and sincerely hope to deliver a result knowing full well it is both unlikely and beyond their direct control. I take his words to be a wish but not a deliverable given his reliance on a distribution network made up of independent businesses.

Clearly, demanding ancillary purchases is contrary to this goal or wish. But it is analogous in reverse to a Jewler bemoaning getting less liquid stock. They both have a stake in the outcome and an informed opinion but it really isn't up to them.

Both are tied at the hip, will suffer one another's consequences, but neither has a place dictating the others business practices. That responsibility is theirs and theirs alone and will be driven by the market place and profitability. If however they truly disagree the can dissolve the relationship. PP clearly tolerates such behavior as the totality of the relationship must outweigh any negative. No one including us consumers of luxury timepieces are naive or forced to do anything. So again my litmuss test is honesty about the rules of the game, from there we can all decide if we want to play.

In the event you are banned it would be a shame. Your a gentleman and thoughtful contributor has arguably ok taste in watches��

[RussW]

Well it was Thierry’s “hope” that it would be a no strings attached purchase, but ultimately any AD can conduct their business however they see fit. If you don’t like it, shop elsewhere.

Patek builds long lasting relationships with their ADs. I’m sure that if Patek thought any AD was damaging their brand, they would withdraw their status as an AD.

[RUK]

A very good idea by Patek, it's the exact type of thinking that can open up an entire generation to the brand.

They could have made it boutique only and sold it to new clients and clients they thought might be suitable.

The reality is that Patek needs to reward both the dealers and the regular clients and a limited run like this is going to have some demand from both.

Personally, I wish I could get a SS Patek dress watch. Not for investment value or for showing off. A stainless dress watch fits perfectly with my daily wear and my lifestyle. The 5711 and the rest of my sports watches are too casual at times and the Calatrava is white gold so not idea. A nice dress watch in SS non limited production at a good price would be a great addition.

Sent from my ONEPLUS A5000 using Tapatalk

[Tony64]

Originally Posted by Bryant Park

I deliberately gave TS a pass. Business leaders frequently expouse and sincerely hope to deliver a result knowing full well it is both unlikely and beyond their direct control. I take his words to be a wish but not a deliverable given his reliance on a distribution network made up of independent businesses.

Clearly, demanding ancillary purchases is contrary to this goal or wish. But it is analogous in reverse to a Jewler bemoaning getting less liquid stock. They both have a stake in the outcome and an informed opinion but it really isn't up to them.

Both are tied at the hip, will suffer one another's consequences, but neither has a place dictating the others business practices. That responsibility is there's and there's alone and will be driven by the market place and profitability. If however they truly disagree the can dissolve the relationship. PP clearly tolerates such behavior as the totality of the relationship must outweigh any negative. No one including us consumers of luxury timepieces are naive or forced to do anything. So again my litmuss test is honesty about the rules of the game, from there we can all decide if we want to play.

In the event you are banned it would be a shame. Your a gentleman and thoughtful contributor has arguably ok taste in watches😀

Originally Posted by RussW

Well it was Thierry’s “hope” that it would be a no strings attached purchase, but ultimately any AD can conduct their business however they see fit. If you don’t like it, shop elsewhere.

Patek builds long lasting relationships with their ADs. I’m sure that if Patek thought any AD was damaging their brand, they would withdraw their status as an AD.

Now that's exactly the kind of civil discourse I was hoping for!

I agree that it's within the rights of any AD to set their own rules. I'll concede that Thierry's words may have been more platitudinous than directive.

I also acknowledge that it's my right as a consumer to avoid patronage of any establishment with whom I have contempt.

I'm not sure what more needs be said. Hopefully this poll brings some much needed closure, and averts any further sanction. At least we've been able to express our opinions on this practice.

[Tony64]

Originally Posted by RUK

A very good idea by Patek, it's the exact type of thinking that can open up an entire generation to the brand.

They could have made it boutique only and sold it to new clients and clients they thought might be suitable.

The reality is that Patek needs to reward both the dealers and the regular clients and a limited run like this is going to have some demand from both.

Personally, I wish I could get a SS Patek dress watch. Not for investment value or for showing off. A stainless dress watch fits perfectly with my daily wear and my lifestyle. The 5711 and the rest of my sports watches are too casual at times and the Calatrava is white gold so not idea. A nice dress watch in SS non limited production at a good price would be a great addition.

Sent from my ONEPLUS A5000 using Tapatalk

I think that would have been a fantastic idea!

[RussW]

Originally Posted by RUK

A very good idea by Patek, it's the exact type of thinking that can open up an entire generation to the brand.

They could have made it boutique only and sold it to new clients and clients they thought might be suitable.

The reality is that Patek needs to reward both the dealers and the regular clients and a limited run like this is going to have some demand from both.

Personally, I wish I could get a SS Patek dress watch. Not for investment value or for showing off. A stainless dress watch fits perfectly with my daily wear and my lifestyle. The 5711 and the rest of my sports watches are too casual at times and the Calatrava is white gold so not idea. A nice dress watch in SS non limited production at a good price would be a great addition.

Sent from my ONEPLUS A5000 using Tapatalk

Great idea in theory - but what do you mean by boutique? There are no Patek salons in the US. Also I think the idea was that it also rewarded the US ADs by giving them access to a new customer base, with which to build new relationships.

[Passionata]

oh boy ................

[texasmade]

Originally Posted by Bryant Park

I think it is entirely up to the AD how they want to treat their customers as long as they are entirely honest and upfront about it.

Totally agree with this. I’ve spoken to several PP and Rolex AD’s about potential purchase of hard to get watches and they all told me up front that it wasn’t happening unless I spent more money with them first on either jewelry or other slow moving watches. They still let me try on various watches they had and discussed other brands but at least they didn’t screw around with me.

[tng11]

Originally Posted by texasmade

Totally agree with this. I’ve spoken to several PP and Rolex AD’s about potential purchase of hard to get watches and they all told me up front that it wasn’t happening unless I spent more money with them first on either jewelry or other slow moving watches. They still let me try on various watches they had and discussed other brands but at least they didn’t screw around with me.

While I am still opposed to tied selling in general, I can still respect dealers who are candid and upfront about their selling policies. I know when I was calling around to get on waitlists, a few dealers were very straightforward in letting me know that they would likely go to previous/local customers.

In the controversial case - the dealer was anything but candid upfront. They strung him along for a few months then dropped the jewellery surprise on him. That is not okay. But if they told him upfront that was the way it was going to be, then it wouldn't be nearly as bad.

[GB-man]

[Russell996]

Any AD has to be very vigilant to adhere to the strict rules of being a PP AD, these rules do not include doing ‘whatever they want’.

[Erod24]

When I asked my AD about the 5522 he said i would have to buy an annual calendar if i wanted it. I wasn’t interested in the model he wanted me to buy so I offer to buy a Patek for my wife and he said no. At least he was upfront about it but I still find it to be shady business. I would of rather heard it’s going to customers that have spent more. Note I have purchased 7 watches from this AD.

[MoosicPa]

Originally Posted by Russell996

Any AD has to be very vigilant to adhere to the strict rules of being a PP AD, these rules do not include doing ‘whatever they want’.

[AK797]

All terms stated upfront is no harm no foul, but bait and switch is not on.

[dardeca]

Originally Posted by AK797

All terms stated upfront is no harm no foul, but bait and switch is not on.

Agree.

[codecow]

Thing is if they made it boutique only for new customers what do you do when a big client comes in and wants one. I know a guy who got a one off and a 5522. Do you tell him no when he’s contributing a ton to keeping the company going?

[Tony64]

Originally Posted by codecow

Thing is if they made it boutique only for new customers what do you do when a big client comes in and wants one. I know a guy who got a one off and a 5522. Do you tell him no when he’s contributing a ton to keeping the company going?

That's exactly what I'd tell him. No one customer can be bigger than the brand.

If Thierry's words are sincere, then distribution thru a boutique following the stated objectives would be best IMO. I think it's as important to bring new clients into the fold as it is to cater to one big fish.

Clients with a significant buying history are already rewarded with application pieces. The 5522 was intended to be different.

Or was it....?

[GB-man]

Originally Posted by Tony64

That's exactly what I'd tell him. No one customer can be bigger than the brand.

If Thierry's words are sincere, then distribution thru a boutique following the stated objectives would be best IMO. I think it's as important to bring new clients into the fold as it is to cater to one big fish.

Clients with a significant buying history are already rewarded with application pieces. The 5522 was intended to be different.

Or was it....?

Here’s an easy fix. Sell the wales a one off platinum version for the same price. Boom done.

[subtona]

The AD does business the way they see fit...

We always have an option to bring our business elsewhere, either another dealer

or

another brand

or

just throw in the towel and get a computer thing that goes on the wrist and tells the time and blogs about our experience.

[Russell996]

Originally Posted by MoosicPa

I wasn’t making a joke.

[MoosicPa]

Originally Posted by Russell996

Any AD has to be very vigilant to adhere to the strict rules of being a PP AD, these rules do not include doing ‘whatever they want’.

Originally Posted by Russell996

I wasn’t making a joke.

I read the interview of Thierry Stern and Larry Pettinelli, President of PP USA. In the interview TS stated that they were finding too many of their watches for sale on the secondary market still "wrapped", and now they insist that their AD's "have to unseal them. Otherwise they may be in trouble." Mr. Pettinelli then added that they have had this rule in place for 2 years now and "so our retailers are very used to that rule..." The then closes the statement: "And if one shows up, we know exactly where it comes from, and Mr, Stern will deal with that."

Now if we take them at their word, PP has had a rule in place for the past 2 years that their AD's are not allowed to sell their watches still sealed in their original PP packaging.

If this is the case, and if Mr. Stern "will deal with that.", I can attest to seeing 3 separate 5522A's over the past 2 months for sale at various grey market dealers still sealed in their original PP packaging, and being advertised by the seller as sealed. Now, unless these grey dealers are breaking into PP AD's and stealing these watches, it has to be assumed that the AD's are in fact selling them still sealed, in violation of PP's 2 year old policy.

Additionally, a quick look at various gray market internet watch dealers will reveal numerous other PP models for sale in their original, sealed packaging.

So if, as you state in your post, that being a PP AD requires them to be "very vigilant to adhere to the strict rules of being a PP AD, these rules do not include doing ‘whatever they want’", explain how these AD's are freely selling watches still sealed, in clear violation of PP strict rules.

I submit that TS and PP are just happy to be getting their watches out the door and into the hands of AD's (and AD's cash into their bank accounts) and really could care a less what the AD's do with their watches once in their possession.

[rebel_1]

Originally Posted by MoosicPa

I submit that TS and PP are just happy to be getting their watches out the door and into the hands of AD's (and AD's cash into their bank accounts) and really could care a less what the AD's do with their watches once in their possession.

This is what I believe. It’s impossible for ADs to not want to make money. Also, if PP was really concerned, they’d flood the market with these pieces making it a non issue. The scarcity of this piece is what makes it such an issue.

Congrats to those lucky enough to get one, but this watch isn’t for me and I cannot appreciate the hype of it.

[rfatm3f]

Don’t really care. Half the reason most people want these is the flip potential.

[MoosicPa]

Originally Posted by rfatm3f

Don’t really care. Half the reason most people want these is the flip potential.

If you truly "don't care" why are you on this thread?

[rfatm3f]

Because I’m tired of all the 5522 drama clogging up the forum. You either got one or you didn’t. Life goes on regardless of a $20k watch.