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Old 2 December 2022, 10:30 AM   #61
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I missed out on the good old days but got into it when you could walk in, pick the GMT master II of the lot that had the least fingerprints on it, all at MSRP. Lol I bought my first rolex at the Forum shops in Vegas. Hyde Park I believe. Not sure if they are still there. They had (4) 116710LN's to choose from.

For me, the investment is I can pass it to my son who can pass it to his kids as grandpa's watch. I don't care if it's worth anything or not. I got into this whole game after inheriting my grandfather's circa 1950's Longines. I don't wear it because it's too small for me at 34mm, but still super cool to have and maybe I can give to a granddaughter one day.
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Old 2 December 2022, 11:55 AM   #62
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With social media flexing, flippers, and FOMO. For quite a few people these days, Rolex collecting seems to be all about buying as an investment. Or who can coin the next nickname?
I think the emergence of SM is the root cause. According to Statista, "social media usage is one of the most popular online activities. In 2021, over 4.26 billion people were using social media worldwide, a number projected to increase to almost 6 billion in 2027."
https://www.statista.com/statistics/...network-users/

Our world population just reached 8 billion recently. If 2-3 out of 4 in the world are on SM, and with the amount of influencing, flexing and fomo going on with travelling, dining, outfit (including watches), bags, and cars, I reckon the watch situation will become worse.

And I doubt SM influencers or their followers care about "investing". They are doing this for "likes" and acceptance. Also, no recession, inflation and war last forever. At some point, the tide will turn again...
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Old 2 December 2022, 12:39 PM   #63
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i think the emergence of sm is the root cause. According to statista, "social media usage is one of the most popular online activities. In 2021, over 4.26 billion people were using social media worldwide, a number projected to increase to almost 6 billion in 2027."
https://www.statista.com/statistics/...network-users/

our world population just reached 8 billion recently. If 2-3 out of 4 in the world are on sm, and with the amount of influencing, flexing and fomo going on with travelling, dining, outfit (including watches), bags, and cars, i reckon the watch situation will become worse.

And i doubt sm influencers or their followers care about "investing". They are doing this for "likes" and acceptance. Also, no recession, inflation and war last forever...

+1
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Old 2 December 2022, 12:41 PM   #64
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Originally Posted by Ichiran View Post
I think the emergence of SM is the root cause. According to Statista, "social media usage is one of the most popular online activities. In 2021, over 4.26 billion people were using social media worldwide, a number projected to increase to almost 6 billion in 2027."
https://www.statista.com/statistics/...network-users/

Our world population just reached 8 billion recently. If 2-3 out of 4 in the world are on SM, and with the amount of influencing, flexing and fomo going on with travelling, dining, outfit (including watches), bags, and cars, I reckon the watch situation will become worse.

And I doubt SM influencers or their followers care about "investing". They are doing this for "likes" and acceptance. Also, no recession, inflation and war last forever...
on the money; agree 100%.
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Old 2 December 2022, 12:54 PM   #65
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All Rolex values just went up about $2k each with the new CPO program. Just like you get emails from your car dealer, your AD will now contact you: "Hi! Rolex watches are in demand, we'd like to buy yours! Stop by your neighborhood dealer."
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Old 2 December 2022, 01:14 PM   #66
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do you have any thoughts about individuals who have no sense of humor? oh sorry, was that sarcasm?
Hmmm...interesting post.

Not sure about you.
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Old 2 December 2022, 01:42 PM   #67
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Started out on TZ as a lurker just reading everyday. A couple years later I joined. I do recall later (the cross over) when the over $5k sales forum was the only place to find a sports Rolex. That got my attention. My first Rolex was a used Date model that was a stretch for me (not even 1k at the time) and I had an Omega as my first luxury sport watch which was purchased new at a substantial discount. I recall how fast I sold the date model without much effort. The goal was a sub at the time but I ended up with an M serial GMT and seadweller as my two main watches for many years along with a speedy. Then the bug bit me again and I started moving watches around and buying more in 2017. Pretty happy with my current collection. Maintaining value is always a nice plus but, I had been used to losing a little on trade ups in the past. It’s interesting to watch this progression and how different the 2008 market was from the 2020 covid driven market. I am pretty sure Rolex intends to manage any impending market drops with the CPO program. I think they could afford to prop things up in the used market. Also, this allows dealers to get a slice of the gray market pie. Seems there could be room for nefarious market moves by AD but, I bet it will be closely monitored.
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Old 2 December 2022, 02:58 PM   #68
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My 1st rolex that I purchased brand new from the AD was 20% off. To me, asking if rolex is an investment is kind of the same as asking how much of a discount I can get. Rather, it's an investment or a discount it is about the money. If you can buy an item that you enjoy wearing and know it will go up in value, it is just an added bonus.

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Old 2 December 2022, 03:04 PM   #69
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Not a new concept. Part of the reason prices are so high is due to speculators who are “investing” in watches, often financed by debt, while flexing the aforementioned investments on social media.
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Old 2 December 2022, 06:22 PM   #70
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No they will go up now even more as Rolex ADs about to fill empty shelves with used official Rolex watches and Watchmaster going into Adminstration meaning the second largest EU suppliers (after Watchfinder) potentially out of the game .
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Old 3 December 2022, 06:47 AM   #71
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No they will go up now even more as Rolex ADs about to fill empty shelves with used official Rolex watches and Watchmaster going into Adminstration meaning the second largest EU suppliers (after Watchfinder) potentially out of the game .
Watch values are falling fast, even in run up to Christmas. Values will fall even faster in January
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Old 3 December 2022, 10:29 AM   #72
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It is an investment in life like a nice car, Boat, Motorhome the list go's on.But not an investment so to speak as in make money just my thoughts..
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Old 3 December 2022, 12:22 PM   #73
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I think the emergence of SM is the root cause. According to Statista, "social media usage is one of the most popular online activities. In 2021, over 4.26 billion people were using social media worldwide, a number projected to increase to almost 6 billion in 2027."
https://www.statista.com/statistics/...network-users/

Our world population just reached 8 billion recently. If 2-3 out of 4 in the world are on SM, and with the amount of influencing, flexing and fomo going on with travelling, dining, outfit (including watches), bags, and cars, I reckon the watch situation will become worse.

And I doubt SM influencers or their followers care about "investing". They are doing this for "likes" and acceptance. Also, no recession, inflation and war last forever. At some point, the tide will turn again...
Interesting points. Even if prices were still high, sometimes I wish Rolex was less popular. I buy because I like the watches.

It's getting to the point where it is even more dangerous to wear in certain places. It's always been an issue, but seems to be getting out of control lately. Or maybe it's just my perception.
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Old 3 December 2022, 06:11 PM   #74
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Buying modern watches in production at the highest price was very simple, reselling them at the lowest price will be very difficult. It was not an investment but a suicide. Some examples: Daytona 508 Green vs Daytona 528 chromalight. Every reseller has a green to sell, the 528 chromalight has no one. The green exists only brand new, I 528 if it is found, there is only in used conditions. the 528 chromalight used costs more than the Green brand new, which given how much it is inflated, is returning to the list price. I hope I have explained myself.
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Old 4 December 2022, 01:24 AM   #75
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Originally Posted by Ichiran View Post
I think the emergence of SM is the root cause. According to Statista, "social media usage is one of the most popular online activities. In 2021, over 4.26 billion people were using social media worldwide, a number projected to increase to almost 6 billion in 2027."
https://www.statista.com/statistics/...network-users/

Our world population just reached 8 billion recently. If 2-3 out of 4 in the world are on SM, and with the amount of influencing, flexing and fomo going on with travelling, dining, outfit (including watches), bags, and cars, I reckon the watch situation will become worse.

And I doubt SM influencers or their followers care about "investing". They are doing this for "likes" and acceptance. Also, no recession, inflation and war last forever. At some point, the tide will turn again...

I agree that social media accelerates trends. But first there must be a trend.

Like tracing the source of the Amazon River (pun intended) the origins of luxury consumerism has much to do with the rise of Rolex marketing.

Rolex itself named ambassadors long before SM - coupled with a trend of choosing celebrities who were more relevant.

The positioning of Rolex as a cultural touchstone works because Rolex set this off 20+ years ago. Even then, people thought of Rolex first and foremost when it came to high-end timepieces.

But why doesn’t this high secondary price anomaly plague Mercedes or Gucci? Both have achieved a status on par with Rolex’s and are rooted into the SM culture. They symbolize wealth, success, and style in their respective categories. But their products depreciate - with a few exceptions if limited editions.

The delta is market control. Mercedes makes twice as many cars; Gucci has a single factory but out produces Rolex.

The reason my friend is Rolex’s deliberate (and very effective) market and production control.

The Quartz crisis taught Rolex not to out-produce product nor rely on technology prowess. They pivoted to out-market, out-position, and out-wit with near fanatical customer control.

No rancor, during the dot com run-up I began to buy many different brands. I suggest today’s collector do the same until something changes the current market dynamic.


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Old 11 December 2022, 12:55 AM   #76
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I agree that social media accelerates trends. But first there must be a trend.

Like tracing the source of the Amazon River (pun intended) the origins of luxury consumerism has much to do with the rise of Rolex marketing.

Rolex itself named ambassadors long before SM - coupled with a trend of choosing celebrities who were more relevant.

The positioning of Rolex as a cultural touchstone works because Rolex set this off 20+ years ago. Even then, people thought of Rolex first and foremost when it came to high-end timepieces.

But why doesn’t this high secondary price anomaly plague Mercedes or Gucci? Both have achieved a status on par with Rolex’s and are rooted into the SM culture. They symbolize wealth, success, and style in their respective categories. But their products depreciate - with a few exceptions if limited editions.

The delta is market control. Mercedes makes twice as many cars; Gucci has a single factory but out produces Rolex.

The reason my friend is Rolex’s deliberate (and very effective) market and production control.

The Quartz crisis taught Rolex not to out-produce product nor rely on technology prowess. They pivoted to out-market, out-position, and out-wit with near fanatical customer control.

No rancor, during the dot com run-up I began to buy many different brands. I suggest today’s collector do the same until something changes the current market dynamic.


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You can buy fake Gucci products, some produced by Gucci itself so they are accessible to the masses. ( Yes, you can buy a fake Rolex but dealers will know it’s fake and thus, zero value) Also, the products wear and can’t be made to back to original condition other than replacing zippers etc.

Mercedes began making cheaper models in certain lines.. Baby Benzes that the masses can attain. Also, a Rolex can be made new by an authorized service. A Mercedes’ with 100,000 miles on it? Not so much.


Also, when those manufacrutprers come out with new models, yours automatically becomes less desirable. Rolex makes incremental changes and the brand DNA isn’t diluted. I have an Sub that a few years old. I didn’t think that I needed to sell it and run out and get the 41. Subs are everywhere but most still can’t get a new one at MSRP and couldn’t before the 41.

I think that this is the difference.
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Old 11 December 2022, 01:02 AM   #77
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Watch values are falling fast, even in run up to Christmas. Values will fall even faster in January
I’ve been reading this prediction every year for 8 years.
I’m still waiting to see people throwing free Daytonas from Rose Bowl Parade floats instead of free candy.
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Old 11 December 2022, 01:10 AM   #78
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Never bought any as an investment. I bought them to USE! IMHO, the stock market is the place to go for investing.
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Old 11 December 2022, 01:12 AM   #79
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I’m confused. Are you saying there is more to this than how much these objects are worth?
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Old 11 December 2022, 03:22 AM   #80
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Not so much of an investment, but more as a store of value I'd say. Value retention is important as they are luxury trinkets that nobody needs.
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Old 11 December 2022, 07:16 AM   #81
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Really simple, a monetary investment is money or time spend on something or someone with future price appreciation as the desired goal. 99.9% of Rolex’s appreciate in value over time . Rolex is an investment. Some people invest in a Rolex as it lasts generations and they pass it on to heirs, that’s an investment. Many conflate an investment with flipping with an immediate or short term hold for profit motivation, that’s not an investment that’s wishful thinking . Just because you don’t intend on selling it or you intend on giving it to someone else doesn’t mean it’s not an investment. Ask people like Warren Buffett who sometimes never sell anything they buy , it’s still an investment. Profits are never guaranteed on any investment but Rolex’s have historically seen positive price appreciation. That’s a good investment.

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Old 11 December 2022, 07:18 AM   #82
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The guy wearing a Rolex isn't lame; he's not concerned with every little scratch or wear mark...It's the guy who buys a Rolex and DOESN'T wear it who is lame!
Exactly. What good is money/materials when you're dead?
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Old 11 December 2022, 07:50 AM   #83
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That’s a rather selfish view
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Old 11 December 2022, 07:53 AM   #84
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It's also true. Enjoy your possessions when you can.
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Old 11 December 2022, 08:02 AM   #85
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Well you know the saying….you never actually own a Rolex, you merely look after it for your AD’s CPO programme.
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Old 11 December 2022, 09:47 AM   #86
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My expectation then was that I could expect a Rolex to retain value.

Definitely not an investment.
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Old 11 December 2022, 10:20 AM   #87
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Well you know the saying….you never actually own a Rolex, you merely look after it for your AD’s CPO programme.
that's funny
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Old 11 December 2022, 06:19 PM   #88
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The fall of cryptos is increasingly flooding TRF with new goldminers and fortune hunters:

- will Rolex be the next tulip craze?
- rename these models to something else, say Crypto Rolex, My Fortune, Go Buy It,
- let's call these watches as investments... what yield can we expect in short or long term?

My problem is, that this is exactly the style that slowly but surely makes me feel uncomfortable. I feel more and more that the world is moving towards the point where wearing a Rolex will be considered pure snobbery and waste, as this blasphemous investor act diminishes the value of your investment. The only acceptable exception will be if you cover your Rolex with three layers of plastic and, for safety reasons, wear it under three sweaters, but only after you have taken out dedicated insurance for the watch and life insurance for this extreme sport.

I think this way of thinking is very far from the original purpose of wearing a Rolex.
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Old 11 December 2022, 07:06 PM   #89
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All Rolex values just went up about $2k each with the new CPO program. Just like you get emails from your car dealer, your AD will now contact you: "Hi! Rolex watches are in demand, we'd like to buy yours! Stop by your neighborhood dealer."
really? but grey market prices haven't increased in japan since the CPO launched in Europe.
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Old 11 December 2022, 07:49 PM   #90
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You can buy fake Gucci products, some produced by Gucci itself so they are accessible to the masses. ( Yes, you can buy a fake Rolex but dealers will know it’s fake and thus, zero value) Also, the products wear and can’t be made to back to original condition other than replacing zippers etc.

Mercedes began making cheaper models in certain lines.. Baby Benzes that the masses can attain. Also, a Rolex can be made new by an authorized service. A Mercedes’ with 100,000 miles on it? Not so much.


Also, when those manufacrutprers come out with new models, yours automatically becomes less desirable. Rolex makes incremental changes and the brand DNA isn’t diluted. I have an Sub that a few years old. I didn’t think that I needed to sell it and run out and get the 41. Subs are everywhere but most still can’t get a new one at MSRP and couldn’t before the 41.

I think that this is the difference.
77T and Brancoone put it nicely.

Imhp whether we like it or not Rolex have become an extremely sought after investment. I bought my hulk back in 2016 at MSRC for £6050 to celebrate my first job but also knowing that my money is safe should I need it in the future.

I dont quite get the statement ‘I buy a Rolex for enjoyment only and not for investment’. Yes enjoy it by all means but unless money is truly not an issue to you then surely knowing that one day you can sell your Rolex for a decent profit should be on your mind. Nobody in the right frame of mind is going to turn down a sports Rolex at MSRP.

Rolex knows every single reason why someone would buy a Rolex and it’s everything mentioned in this thread. They are not a publicly listed company so they don’t answer to anyone and with them entering the pre owned market its further evidence to me that they want to control the prices of new and used.
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