Rolex goes CPO!?

[rambo99]

Originally Posted by csong825

I heard about this from my AD (USA) a few weeks ago but I didn’t see anything on the forums so I didn’t make much of it. My AD thinks that Rolex will take back the “exhibition only” models and sell them as CPO, sort of like how car dealers sell demo/loaner cars at a discount. I imagine pricing will be somewhere between retail and gray market and this will hopefully bring down gray market pricing.


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why would it bring down gray market price? you would also need to build relationship to buy those used watches from rolex if they sell at below gray market price, lol.

[Tqmb79]

I don’t think it will bring down grey prices. Here’s why…why would anyone sell back to rolex if they can get more from grey?! Rolex would have to pay close to what greys are buying watches at else they would not get much inventory. If this happens, will be very interesting and observe !

[ArtNouveau]

Originally Posted by Harry-57

Why not give their ADs assistance tapping into the grey market? Seems entirely logical and possible. Putting a used and certified section in my AD's instore Rolex boutique would considerably increase the number of watches for sale. It would look more like a watch dealer than an art gallery, which would be an improvement.

I think it’s a bad idea. Rumor is that one of the local dealers that recently lost its franchise was blurring the line between their new and preowned stock. In the US, Tourneau, now Bucherer, has always sold used watches. No one blinked when used prices were lower than MSRP, but now I think they need to be more careful.

[1665fan]

Originally Posted by ArtNouveau

I think it’s a bad idea. Rumor is that one of the local dealers that recently lost its franchise was blurring the line between their new and preowned stock. In the US, Tourneau, now Bucherer, has always sold used watches. No one blinked when used prices were lower than MSRP, but now I think they need to be more careful.

If there’s a used Daytona sitting there for 45k at the AD, the waitlist for the new pieces will only get longer……..and everybody who isn’t already IN will have to buy more junk jewelry to move up the watch list…..

[rmwill]

This is already a thing. Buy a used watch and send it into the RSC for service. The 2 year warranty card is the certification.

Unless demand changes, this will have zero affect on pricing and availability.

[Gab27]

Some ADs already do this, although perhaps on a somewhat less formal scale. More or less, they buy a Rolex watch or a customer trades one in, they send it to RSC, the watch gets a full overhaul, and then they list it (above MSRP as it isn't a new piece). At that point, you have a Rolex you bought from an AD that was 'certified' by Rolex. For someone who is hesitant to purchase from a secondary dealer but for reasons other than pricing (e.g., authenticity), it presents them with an option should they not be able to source the watch new. ADs that do this are more than happy to sell these watches to anyone who walks in the door, and they will generally display this stock unlike factory new items.

In terms of implementing a systematic system for all ADs that is formally controlled by the mothership (or a subcontractor), it seems unlikely that Rolex would have the capacity to do this at the current time and, for the time being with the current market situation, there is the major outstanding issue of how they will source the watches for a price that will make this a financially-beneficial undertaking. Obviously, a formal system controlled by Rolex (or subcontracted to a third party but controlled under the Rolex name) could not be selling factory CPOs for three times the price of new (with the exception being perhaps if those who traded a used watch into Rolex for X price were guaranteed a new model at the time of trade in, such as trade in a 114060 for a $5,0000 credit, be immediately offered a 124060 for MSRP...even then, not clear how many consumers would go for that.)

[Fritzli]

Originally Posted by vh2k

If nobody has heard about it, how can it be a strong rumor?

In this german thread several commentators write, that their ADs confirmed this rumor. But as long its not officially confirmed by Rolex - its a rumor, even as its a strong/loud or whatever you wanna call it rumor!

To me, it makes absolutely sense, that Rolex goes CPO! Not only because the secondary market maybe overtake the primary market within a few year from now by volume/$$$ - but its you guys who always say "buy the seller" if its about buying on the secondary! So spoken for the (neo) vintage market - i would 10 times prefer to buy a Rolex from Rolex than from any grey! By authentification i will know if its a 100% original piece, with 100% original parts, or if it has service, fake or frankenstein parts or whatever!

And yes, this authentification will be valued in the market and so i m sure that the prices for this "Rolex authentificated" (neo) vintage watches deserve an extra $$$! So this gonna set a new standard in a today very grey, grey market field! No ebay watch proofing, no watchfinder can do this on this level!

Rolex authentification and classifying gonna set a new standard in the wild west of pre owned watches!

Rolex stays Rolex - new or pre-owned!

[Gab27]

Originally Posted by Fritzli

In this german thread several commentators write, that their ADs confirmed this rumor. But as long its not officially confirmed by Rolex - its a rumor, even as its a strong/loud or whatever you wanna call it rumor!

To me, it makes absolutely sense, that Rolex goes CPO! Not only because the secondary market maybe overtake the primary market within a few year from now by volume/$$$ - but its you guys who always say "buy the seller" if its about buying on the secondary! So spoken for the (neo) vintage market - i would 10 times prefer to buy a Rolex from Rolex than from any grey! By authentification i will know if its a 100% original piece, with 100% original parts, or if it has service, fake or frankenstein parts or whatever!

And yes, this authentification will be valued in the market and so i m sure that the prices for this "Rolex authentificated" (neo) vintage watches deserve an extra $$$! So this gonna set a new standard in a today very grey, grey market field! No ebay watch proofing, no watchfinder can do this on this level!

Rolex authentification and classifying gonna set a new standard in the wild west of pre owned watches!

Rolex stays Rolex - new or pre-owned!

Again, how does Rolex source these watches? I think it is very unlikely Rolex is going to sell (formally through ADs) CPO Daytonas for $30,000+ while selling factory new ones for $14,000. That would probably not be good for their brand.

Do they promise someone immediate allocation of a brand new Daytona if they trade in a used Daytona and accept credit that is only a small fraction of actual market value? ADs would probably DESPISE that.

[Fritzli]

Originally Posted by Gab27

Again, how does Rolex source these watches? I think it is very unlikely Rolex is going to sell (formally through ADs) CPO Daytonas for $30,000+ while selling factory new ones for $14,000. That would probably not be good for their brand.

Do they promise someone immediate allocation of a brand new Daytona if they trade in a used Daytona and accept credit that is only a small fraction of actual market value? ADs would probably DESPISE that.

As said, it will be only for discontinued models, minumum age 2 years. Many questions might be open yet -yes! Translate the german text and you will know more - or maybe not! Its a rumor, but one makes sense to me at least!

Time will tell

Antoine

[vh2k]

Rather than just saying “Rolex goes CPO” (which is 100% meaningless), how about you clearly state what this supposedly strong rumor is?

[Harry-57]

Originally Posted by rushca01

Maybe Rolex is getting a little upset they are not reaping the profits that the grey market is.

I doubt that Rolex care. But their ADs will care. It seems an eminently sensible way of ADs tapping into the used market with Rolex behind them, exerting a degree of influence on it and maybe setting the price levels. I expect prices would be higher, as they are for an approved used prestige car through an AD, but the watches will be 100% certified authentic and carry a warranty that no grey seller will be able to match, and thus be something approaching market price regulation. It might burn some of the gouging cowboys and discourage them - another welcome consequence.

[dannyp]

Originally Posted by rambo99

why would it bring down gray market price? you would also need to build relationship to buy those used watches from rolex if they sell at below gray market price, lol.

Originally Posted by Tqmb79

I don’t think it will bring down grey prices. Here’s why…why would anyone sell back to rolex if they can get more from grey?! Rolex would have to pay close to what greys are buying watches at else they would not get much inventory. If this happens, will be very interesting and observe !

The more I ponder this, the more I think that it only works if Rolex takes the unprecedented step of telling ADs not to traffic in non-CPO pre-owned. All of a sudden, ADs are limited in the amount they can offer in trade, as the re-sale prices will be determined by Rolex. This is how Rolex regulates the (likely undesirable) situation of ADs featuring cases full of pre-owned pieces at 2-3x (or 5x for a Tiffany OP) MSRP.

[amphr1]

I think it's a great idea, an just totally make sense for Rolex to do that. I mean it's the same with the car industry, you can always buy from a third party dealer, but without extended warranty, and CPO will always be more expensive than market price, but you always know it's authentic and will come with warranty. And who knows, maybe they'll be sensible and put a ceiling on how high the market price it's willing to go.

[raflunes]

I've heard exactly that from my AD (in Brazil, so this is a world movement). This subject is very hot and my bet is that is coming soon.

[Gab27]

Originally Posted by Fritzli

As said, it will be only for discontinued models, minumum age 2 years. Many questions might be open yet -yes! Translate the german text and you will know more - or maybe not! Its a rumor, but one makes sense to me at least!

Time will tell

Antoine

The text does not address the giant elephant in the room. From what I have observed, CPO markets tend to work well when used goods sell for [generally substantially] less than new. It doesn't work that way with Rolex.


Many discontinued models still sell on the secondary market for well above their original MSRP (even when adjusting for inflation), especially the models people are most interested in. Ten+ year old DJs in only semi-popular configurations may still be selling for more than a new stainless DJ. For that matter, some discontinued Rolex models are sometimes selling for substantially more than current models. This presents major problems.

I do not see any situation where Rolex would allow an AD to sell a factory-CPO Rolex for more than a corresponding new model (e.g., they are not going to allow the sale of a factory-certified 114060 for twice the price of a brand new 124060.) This would be potentially harmful to their brand.

If used factory CPOs must be sold for a MSRP at or below that of the corresponding new model, the question remains as to how Rolex will acquire a substantial number of these watches for a low enough purchase price that, even after refurbishment/shipping/logistics costs, they can sell them at MSRP without losing money?

Rolex is probably not going to pay a consumer $18,000 for a watch that they originally produced for $3,000 and their AD sold for $8,000. A consumer who has a watch worth $18,000 who is looking to sell it is probably not going to sell it to Rolex for half of what a secondary dealer will pay unless they are provided some additional incentive (such as the guaranteed immediate opportunity to buy a new version of that watch reference for MSRP, which could fundamentally alter Rolex's entire sales model if new production numbers stay more or less the same.)

Maybe there is something I am missing here but I see some major logistical hurdles.

[dannyp]

Originally Posted by Gab27

The text does not address the giant elephant in the room. From what I have observed, CPO markets tend to work well when used goods sell for [generally substantially] less than new. It doesn't work that way with Rolex.


Many discontinued models still sell on the secondary market for well above their original MSRP (even when adjusting for inflation), especially the models people are most interested in. Ten+ year old DJs in only semi-popular configurations may still be selling for more than a new stainless DJ. For that matter, some discontinued Rolex models are sometimes selling for substantially more than current models. This presents major problems.

I do not see any situation where Rolex would allow an AD to sell a factory-CPO Rolex for more than a corresponding new model (e.g., they are not going to allow the sale of a factory-certified 114060 for twice the price of a brand new 124060.) This would be potentially harmful to their brand.

If used factory CPOs must be sold for a MSRP at or below that of the corresponding new model, the question remains as to how Rolex will acquire a substantial number of these watches for a low enough purchase price that, even after refurbishment/shipping/logistics costs, they can sell them at MSRP without losing money?

Rolex is probably not going to pay a consumer $18,000 for a watch that they originally produced for $3,000 and their AD sold for $8,000. A consumer who has a watch worth $18,000 who is looking to sell it is probably not going to sell it to Rolex for half of what a secondary dealer will pay unless they are provided some additional incentive (such as the guaranteed immediate opportunity to buy a new version of that watch reference for MSRP, which could fundamentally alter Rolex's entire sales model if new production numbers stay more or less the same.)

Maybe there is something I am missing here but I see some major logistical hurdles.

You make very good points here. I think a move like this necessitates a move away from the warranty attaching to the watch and instead attach it to the owner (with some discretion for gifted watches). Only way to transfer warranty essentially becomes a trip to RSC for “service” (which may be little more than oil and verification).

[jfmiii]

Originally Posted by Gab27

The text does not address the giant elephant in the room. From what I have observed, CPO markets tend to work well when used goods sell for [generally substantially] less than new. It doesn't work that way with Rolex.


Many discontinued models still sell on the secondary market for well above their original MSRP (even when adjusting for inflation), especially the models people are most interested in. Ten+ year old DJs in only semi-popular configurations may still be selling for more than a new stainless DJ. For that matter, some discontinued Rolex models are sometimes selling for substantially more than current models. This presents major problems.

I do not see any situation where Rolex would allow an AD to sell a factory-CPO Rolex for more than a corresponding new model (e.g., they are not going to allow the sale of a factory-certified 114060 for twice the price of a brand new 124060.) This would be potentially harmful to their brand.

If used factory CPOs must be sold for a MSRP at or below that of the corresponding new model, the question remains as to how Rolex will acquire a substantial number of these watches for a low enough purchase price that, even after refurbishment/shipping/logistics costs, they can sell them at MSRP without losing money?

Rolex is probably not going to pay a consumer $18,000 for a watch that they originally produced for $3,000 and their AD sold for $8,000. A consumer who has a watch worth $18,000 who is looking to sell it is probably not going to sell it to Rolex for half of what a secondary dealer will pay unless they are provided some additional incentive (such as the guaranteed immediate opportunity to buy a new version of that watch reference for MSRP, which could fundamentally alter Rolex's entire sales model if new production numbers stay more or less the same.)

Maybe there is something I am missing here but I see some major logistical hurdles.

If Rolex allowed you to trade in against a new model, they’d acquire significant inventory. It would turn the current situation on its head. It would have significant ramifications for the grey market and the ADs. A very interesting idea but I just don’t see it happening.

[Undefeatable]

Originally Posted by HMHM

I would prefer if they introduce Restoration services for 4 digits models. Restoring old Frankenstein or broken pieces back to their original condition with certificate of authenticity.

They have that already. Its not really advertised, its quite expensive, and takes a long time, but they offer it. If I remember correctly, if you go through the Rolex restoration service, its pretty neat because they include things like a booklet that shows the history of your watch model, etc...

I heard it from The Watchbox podcast, where Mike Manjos (The Watchbox's CFO) had this done to one of his vintage Rolex's and I think he said it took a year and cost a lot, but they did an amazing job.

[trout_thumper21]

Originally Posted by padi56

Not going to happen just rumours but today it its on the net or so called social media many always think its true. As these things like net gossip and social media have taken over there lives.

Ok

[apuri]

It doesn't seem likely but if Rolex can dictate pre-owned MSRPs to ADs and allow them to sell, that might not be a bad thing.

[Bladeshot]

Originally Posted by brandrea

I’d highly doubt it. They have their hands full making new watches, and all that that entails.

Absolutely perfect perspective, IMO.

[Macnavara]

Why would anyone sell their watch to rolex for less than they can get selling to a grey…..I dont see how rolex will get these watches unless they pay market price and in this case they will be just another grey making no difference to the situation anyway…..i call bs on this one

[Lu..]

Zenith does it....although they are vintage and fetch top market value.....

https://www.zenith-watches.com/en_us/products/icons

[rambo99]

Originally Posted by Lu..

Zenith does it....although they are vintage and fetch top market value.....

https://www.zenith-watches.com/en_us/products/icons

Zenith can do it because their watches depreciate after used. but Rolex watches are 3x over msrp after used.

[RazorD]

I heard this too, but I think it may be nothing more than ADs that sell pre-owned (as many do already) but they go in for service first so they have a warranty.

[Know1isgod]

Rolex is well aware of the lucrative market for pre-owned watches. As they use Tudor to play in the $3k to $6k space, CPO Rolex could be a mechanism to leverage their way into that market. Greys would still exist of course, but Rolex brings much to the table and doesn't need extreme markups for it to be profitable. God forbid they dangle priority to original owners looking for that next piece....

[dannyp]

Originally Posted by RazorD

I heard this too, but I think it may be nothing more than ADs that sell pre-owned (as many do already) but they go in for service first so they have a warranty.

I agree. But, as I’ve said, I think there may be more to it. Rolex may not care about the used market, until it sees its ADs with used watches in the case selling for over MSRP. Bad look, IMO.

[gerry100]

Originally Posted by RazorD

I heard this too, but I think it may be nothing more than ADs that sell pre-owned (as many do already) but they go in for service first so they have a warranty.

How I got my watch last year from an AD

16570 with a certified service, at "grey" price

[RazorD]

Originally Posted by dannyp

I agree. But, as I’ve said, I think there may be more to it. Rolex may not care about the used market, until it sees its ADs with used watches in the case selling for over MSRP. Bad look, IMO.

Many ADs sell pre-owned at market prices already and Rolex is fine with it. The fact that these go for more on the secondary only adds to their image of desirability.

[GGGMT]

Originally Posted by BumbleB

Thanks, I was wondering why they would go in the Crude Palm Oil business


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That is very funny


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