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Old 21 January 2022, 03:00 AM   #1
GolfJunkie
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New to vintage w/ a couple questions about a sub.

Hey guys,

Been around the forum for a few years but haven't ventured too deep into this part of the collecting world. I've always been a fan of the Submariner and own a few of the modern references. Lately I've really been thinking about getting a vintage Sub. I really like the 1680 with the domed acrylic crystal but have also considered a 16800 (although can't really consider that a 4 digit).

Few Questions:

1: I'm looking at a 1680 circa 1978 box, papers, service papers, etc. but it appears the bezel insert is not original. Pearl is stark white compared to the hands and dial. How much of a factor does this play into the price and overall collectability?

2: Is the only difference between the 1680 and 16800 the crystal? (acrylic vs. saphier)

3: Is there a thread or reference database anywhere that would explain the different variations and production years on the 1680 dials? (MKI, MKII, MKIII etc.)


Appreciate any information and look forward to educating myself in this part of the vintage watch world.
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Old 21 January 2022, 03:07 AM   #2
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1. Inserts are seldom "original" on older watches. The real question is do you desire to look around to find a period correct item if that is what you want. If that is the only thing "wrong" with an otherwise excellent example, make a decision.

2. No. The 16800 ushered in the modern Sub Date with sapphire, movement, case, clicking bezel, etc. It is the same case design used in the later 16610.

3. good project.
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Old 21 January 2022, 03:47 AM   #3
RazorD
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Also, are you certain the insert is a replacement? Sometimes just the pearl is replaced.
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Old 21 January 2022, 04:15 AM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RazorD View Post
Also, are you certain the insert is a replacement? Sometimes just the pearl is replaced.
I'm not certain. Didn't know that was an option. I'll have to ask the seller if they know.
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Old 21 January 2022, 04:15 AM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tools View Post
1. Inserts are seldom "original" on older watches. The real question is do you desire to look around to find a period correct item if that is what you want. If that is the only thing "wrong" with an otherwise excellent example, make a decision.

2. No. The 16800 ushered in the modern Sub Date with sapphire, movement, case, clicking bezel, etc. It is the same case design used in the later 16610.

3. good project.
Good information. Thanks Larry.
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Old 21 January 2022, 04:30 AM   #6
baumare
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Welcome to the Vintage side, you will learn that is full of many, many details, like the dot on the bezel insert for example, so there are a lot of information to take in.
Regarding the 1680 you have in mind the best thing to do would be to post here some photos so can experts here can go over with you about those details
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Old 21 January 2022, 04:52 AM   #7
GolfJunkie
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Quote:
Originally Posted by baumare View Post
Welcome to the Vintage side, you will learn that is full of many, many details, like the dot on the bezel insert for example, so there are a lot of information to take in.
Regarding the 1680 you have in mind the best thing to do would be to post here some photos so can experts here can go over with you about those details
Thank you

Here are some pictures of the watch from the dealers website.









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Old 21 January 2022, 04:53 AM   #8
Dan S
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If the insert is indeed a service replacement, it is considered to have basically zero value in collectible terms, so the value of the watch would be decreased by approximately the cost of replacing the insert with a period-correct insert. In the neighborhood of $2k in this case.

But as noted above, you really need to study the font of the insert to determine if it's original or not. A replaced pearl is not as serious.
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Old 21 January 2022, 05:12 AM   #9
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The insert looks like what’s been commonly called one of the Mark 3 variants.
And under the modern descriptions laid out on the link below it looks like a Mark 6 fuzzy 4.
The pip seems to be replaced.
https://www.tapatalk.com/groups/vint...r-t266367.html
Hope this helps.
You can decide if you are comfortable with this and other information…
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Old 21 January 2022, 05:12 AM   #10
L.K Johnson
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Here is some info;

http://www.drsd.com/watch-info/red-sub/redsub.html
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Old 21 January 2022, 05:13 AM   #11
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Just realized that it might just be about red 1680…
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Old 21 January 2022, 05:34 AM   #12
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Insert is original. The watch is a very nice example.
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Old 21 January 2022, 06:02 AM   #13
baumare
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Looks like a nice example, with correct insert and an early 93150 bracelet.

Would be nice to see the papers...
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Old 21 January 2022, 06:23 AM   #14
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Dial patina is beautiful. I'd choose a 1680 over a 16800. Pearl is not a big deal.
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Old 21 January 2022, 06:43 AM   #15
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Looks like a fine example. Insert is fine.
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Old 21 January 2022, 09:13 AM   #16
GolfJunkie
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Wow! Thank you guys so much for all the helpful information. I knew i came to the right place.

I still have a ton of research to do before i walk down this road but i really appreciate the info thus far
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Old 21 January 2022, 10:49 AM   #17
RazorD
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I saw this on HQ’s site. It’s nice!
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Old 21 January 2022, 06:39 PM   #18
stevedssd
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A 1680 is my personal preference.... this may help re dials https://www.rolexforums.com/showthread.php?t=513941
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Old 26 January 2022, 07:42 AM   #19
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I've recently inherited my Dad's 1979 ref 1680 and while the hands have beautiful patina, it's obvious the dial markers have been re-lumed. The watch means the world to me but I do wish it had the original Tritium markers like what you're considering. Beauty.
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