Looking for advice

[the_Hunter]

Similar luck with de Boulle in Dallas.

[Kilometerman]

Originally Posted by coogs08

Hi All,

Been a longtime member here at TRF, however fairly new to Patek. Really looking for advice on how to begin a Patek relationship with an AD. I have established a great Rolex relationship here in Houston, TX with an AD and have been able to source nearly every Rolex I've wanted after only about a year of dealing with them. I've always felt this AD has acted in good faith and never really jerked me around when it came to expectations. I have purchased 7 rolexes from them this year.

In my short time dealing with our local Patek AD, however, it is the complete opposite. I have visited them in person several times this year, and each time it seems to be getting worse and worse. It is to the point now where they are quite explicitly telling me I can't even get a 5227 without purchasing 5 figures worth of jewelry, which I think is a bit ridiculous.

Am I wrong for thinking this is ridiculous? I want to begin collecting holy trinity pieces (just got my first, a VC overseas, last month), however if I can't even get a Patek which goes for a significant discount in the secondary market without purchasing $10k+ in jewelery...I am not sure I even care to buy a Patek from an AD.

Thanks,
-Avi

I’ve had a similar problem. Been going there for years…since they opened basically, and indicated my interest in a few pieces. This is before the market got super hot.

After pushing me to buy diamonds and other jewelry (which I buy from my friend, and thus don’t need them), I finally relented and bought a pre-owned Patek from them. They assured me that would get the relationship going.

Years have passed. I still drop by often and re-indicate my interest. They offered me another pre-owned Patek (at a 15% premium to what seems to be the market price). I was even willing to take the pre-owned one, if they would bundle a new….but even that wasn’t good enough.

I feel quite certain that this AD will ABSOLUTELY NOT sell you a Patek unless you buy tons of overpriced jewelry too.

Very frustrating. I get treated like a VIP with multiple other brands, but this dealer….

[newonos]

I recall a post in the rolex forum of a guy who bought a non-rolex from an a different SA than whom he had a relationship. Same company, different store and old SA saw it in the system and called him politely to ask what happened and the reply was that he hadn't heard from the old SA in awhile, and so, there ya go... point was the guy had choices. We all do... PP makes some great stuff for sure. But I know lotsa folks who are not super in to Lange until they get to know the brand more... then they LOVE them. Lange really has some outside the box movements, and most definitely worth some time to get familiar. The Richard Lange poir le merite, the referenzuhr are a couple of my faves. The 1815 and 1815 ab/auf really compete with the 6119. Lange's dattograph... all worth a gander

[coogs08]

Thanks for all the responses everyone. Unfortunately it looks like I am not alone in this. I will reach out to out of state ADs and see if their responses are similar. I have a horrible taste from DeBoulle and so do a couple of my friends. My wife does like and purchases jewelry, however the brands/designers she likes cannot be purchased from DeBoulle.

Patek just might not be in the cards for me currently, just gotta accept it and move on.

[coogs08]

Originally Posted by Kilometerman

I’ve had a similar problem. Been going there for years…since they opened basically, and indicated my interest in a few pieces. This is before the market got super hot.

After pushing me to buy diamonds and other jewelry (which I buy from my friend, and thus don’t need them), I finally relented and bought a pre-owned Patek from them. They assured me that would get the relationship going.

Years have passed. I still drop by often and re-indicate my interest. They offered me another pre-owned Patek (at a 15% premium to what seems to be the market price). I was even willing to take the pre-owned one, if they would bundle a new….but even that wasn’t good enough.

I feel quite certain that this AD will ABSOLUTELY NOT sell you a Patek unless you buy tons of overpriced jewelry too.

Very frustrating. I get treated like a VIP with multiple other brands, but this dealer….

That’s the thing, they can just continue dangling the carrot in front of you to no end. That’s why I am hesitant to even concede. Very frustrating indeed, sorry you’ve suffered the same fate. Are you talking about the same Houston-based AD?

[Kilometerman]

Originally Posted by coogs08

That’s the thing, they can just continue dangling the carrot in front of you to no end. That’s why I am hesitant to even concede. Very frustrating indeed, sorry you’ve suffered the same fate. Are you talking about the same Houston-based AD?

Oh yes, same one. I went out of state as well, and had better luck…although the out of state AD seems to be ignoring me now. Out of sight, out of mind I guess.

I’ve heard there might be a Patek AD opening in Austin in the near future, with a different owner perhaps. Fingers crossed.

[jon_jon]

It is too bad that Houston only has one Patek AD at the moment. When Tiffany had a Patek AD in Houston at the Galleria Mall, they were more customer friendly than De Boulle. I used to love visiting the Tiffany Patek AD in Houston and talking to the SAs there when I was visiting Houston.

[aa909]

It's sad to see new releases hitting the grey dealers at 300% mark ups (5811 & 5712/1R), while folks here are desperately seeking advice on how to secure pieces from ADs who literally treat them like second class citizens

IMO There are only 2 scenarios:
(1) Supposed VIPs are flipping them immediately
(2) These same ADs are selling these pieces out the backdoor to Grey dealers and sharing in the aftermarket premium

Hope Patek puts an end to this...

[dauster]

Originally Posted by aa909

It's sad to see new releases hitting the grey dealers at 300% mark ups (5811 & 5712/1R), while folks here are desperately seeking advice on how to secure pieces from ADs who literally treat them like second class citizens

IMO There are only 2 scenarios:
(1) Supposed VIPs are flipping them immediately
(2) These same ADs are selling these pieces out the backdoor to Grey dealers and sharing in the aftermarket premium

Hope Patek puts an end to this...

just talked to a SA at tiffany and they said they closely monitor all tiffany PPs that hit the secondary market and auctions and everyone gets blacklisted but then again if you keep buying jewelry who really knows.

[ChetBaker]

Why play the AD game if there’s still great PP pieces that you can buy used at good prices. Stuff like 5205, 5960, 5235 are all great watches and certainly more special than a 5227.

[newonos]

Originally Posted by ChetBaker

Why play the AD game if there’s still great PP pieces that you can buy used at good prices. Stuff like 5205, 5960, 5235 are all great watches and certainly more special than a 5227.

I think its really a preference, IMO. The experience of buying from an AD, you get the box, papers, all in your name at the AD. Sure you can get the box and papers gret, but not the same. Some don't care. That's fine. Some do. Also fine.

[Calatrava r]

Originally Posted by Russell996

Patek are cutting some underperforming AD’s but they are absolutely NOT moving to a boutique model. They have 3 salons worldwide (London, Paris, Geneva) and all other outlets are authorised retailers.

Curious how any Patek AD can be underperforming in the current market where they cannot get stock and basically everything is pre-sold before arrival.

[aa909]

Originally Posted by Calatrava r

Curious how any Patek AD can be underperforming in the current market where they cannot get stock and basically everything is pre-sold before arrival.

well considering just today a 5811 and 5712/1R hit the grey market for $200K+ each, Patek should be looking into exactly how these ADs are performing

[dauster]

Originally Posted by Calatrava r

Curious how any Patek AD can be underperforming in the current market where they cannot get stock and basically everything is pre-sold before arrival.

it's measured in the amount of grand comps and ladies pieces I think. anybody can sell most pateks but application pieces and ladies pieces are still hard to move

[Tricolore66]

Once the grey prices on non-stainless PP’s fall below MSRP, I think many of those on the waiting list will drop out. There are zero signs of the market moving in any direction but down, so I would just wait it out. The reduction in PP AD’s means the existing dealers will get more pieces, and combined with a market that’s probably going back to 2014-2015 dynamics, display cases could be very different in a year.

[Tachycardia]

Actually we are already getting there with some pieces going below retail. If you check the well know trusted grey seller that many of us buy Rolex from, he just listed unworn 6119G for $29,375.

The rhetoric of ADs have also changed recently . They now say calatrava like 6119 and 5227 can be obtained with just a little wait. And as previously mentioned, you can even see 5227 in display cases.

Compare this to say 4-6 months, they would say to buy $20-30k in jewelry to secure an allocation of any calatrava including 6119 or 5227.

[Nico81]

Find a new AD


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[aa909]

Originally Posted by Tachycardia

Actually we are already getting there with some pieces going below retail. If you check the well know trusted grey seller that many of us buy Rolex from, he just listed unworn 6119G for $29,375.

The rhetoric of ADs have also changed recently . They now say calatrava like 6119 and 5227 can be obtained with just a little wait. And as previously mentioned, you can even see 5227 in display cases.

Compare this to say 4-6 months, they would say to buy $20-30k in jewelry to secure an allocation of any calatrava including 6119 or 5227.

Here’s the ugly truth, No one wants a 5227 or 6119. I’d venture to guess 90% of people buying either from an AD are doing it in hopes of getting allocated a Nautilus. Market will eventually return to trend and these AD games will cool off.

[Nico81]

Originally Posted by Ichiran

My "ground" has always been consistent. There is no way we know the production volume of a private company. I also did not imply Patek made 60k in 2009 cos otherwise I'm contradicting myself.

I do need your help in quoting TS when he took over the company in 2009 and in the same year he pledged he was never going to increase production. This is the central part of our to-and-fro and I would like to close this loop with your help please. Thanks.

Let it go … seriously


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[Emery]

You know what’s ridiculous? Paying full RRP for a 5227.

You’ll get one at a discount next year if you’re willing to wait.

[aa909]

Originally Posted by Emery

You know what’s ridiculous? Paying full RRP for a 5227.

You’ll get one at a discount next year if you’re willing to wait.

Both are already available at a discount brand new on the secondary market.

[Emery]

Originally Posted by aa909

Both are already available at a discount brand new on the secondary market.

I know - I was referring to getting a discount from an AD for the 5227.

[aa909]

Originally Posted by Emery

I know - I was referring to getting a discount from an AD for the 5227.

would be great if we get back to those days soon

I remember getting my 5712r from my AD in 2015 in 2 months of expressing interest ands no purchase history. I think the days of having to spend $50K+ in jewelry to just get on the list are coming to an end

[DoctorA]

Originally Posted by aa909

would be great if we get back to those days soon

I remember getting my 5712r from my AD in 2015 in 2 months of expressing interest ands no purchase history. I think the days of having to spend $50K+ in jewelry to just get on the list are coming to an end

You’re right! Spending $50K is coming to an end! The new day is having to spend at least $$100k

I’m waiting on my AD to make things right (hopefully). To me, it’s a matter of principle! Not the spend history!!