Mine and My Dad's 1987 GMTs

[Dan S]

Originally Posted by njsteve

Well, the Rolex service center answered back yesterday concerning my requests to keep the original watch in its original vintage state other than servicing the movement.

They refused my request to reuse the original 1987 hands and that they require that the hands be replaced. They also would not give me back my original hands if they do the service, as it is part of their service procedure.

I told them I am refusing all work and to immediately return the watch, untouched.

I will therefore find an alternative service professional who actually cares about the keeping an original 35-year old GMT in it's original state of finish. Feel free to pass on recomendations via a response or a PM.

Unfortunate, but not too surprising. You will be happy in the long run.

[Nova1]

More importantly, you have a ‘92 RT/10? Hell of a car to have held onto.

[njsteve]

Originally Posted by Nova1

More importantly, you have a ‘92 RT/10? Hell of a car to have held onto.

Yup. From a previous career where I worked as a tech editor for car magazines. I paid the upfront purchase (at a reduced cost) and got to keep the car. Got paid to modify my own car, race it and write about it. Mostly at Sebring Intl Raceway, back in the day. Even held a lap record there for a year, around 28 years ago.

You can't see it but I'm wearing the GMT in that photo. :-)

[Nova1]

That is so cool, Steve!

[njsteve]

LOL. I tried to teach my son how to drive a manual transmission using that car last year. It was entertaining. He wound up breaking the throw-out bearing slave cylinder. (It was just a coincidence the seals decided to internally fail that exact day, but he felt bad anyway). I spent a month hunting down the impossible-to-find, new part and replaced it myself, in our garage.

We are now looking for a cheap "hoopty" with a stick shift so he can practice on that before I give him the car eventually.

[TuRo]

Originally Posted by Stan Cooper

Steve, the T<25 was used between 1960 and 1998, and indicates the lume is tritium and emits less than 925 MBq (25 mCi), but it's not quite that simple:
What does Swiss T<25 mean?

The hands look fine to me.

Sorry to be pedant, but '25 diallage' was circa 62 up to U/A serial late 90s

[Proto3]

Originally Posted by njsteve

Well, the Rolex service center answered back yesterday concerning my requests to keep the original watch in its original vintage state other than servicing the movement.

They refused my request to reuse the original 1987 hands and that they require that the hands be replaced. They also would not give me back my original hands if they do the service, as it is part of their service procedure.

I told them I am refusing all work and to immediately return the watch, untouched.

I will therefore find an alternative service professional who actually cares about the keeping an original 35-year old GMT in it's original state of finish. Feel free to pass on recomendations via a response or a PM.

Rolliworks out of Miami does good work. Rolex will never touch my 1675.

[njsteve]

Originally Posted by Proto3

Rolliworks out of Miami does good work. Rolex will never touch my 1675.

I was already thinking of sending them the bracelet to fix. It hangs at almost 45 degrees to the side.

[swish77]

Originally Posted by njsteve

We are now looking for a cheap "hoopty" with a stick shift so he can practice on that before I give him the car eventually.

Get a rental. I learned to drive stick in the early '90s by renting a Miata with a manual transmission for about three days. Drove the hell out of it, and it was not pretty. I'm sure the car was never the same, but it did the job!

[Proto3]

Originally Posted by njsteve

I was already thinking of sending them the bracelet to fix. It hangs at almost 45 degrees to the side.

I’ve sent two bracelets to them. Very happy with the job they did.

[jatco]

Originally Posted by swish77

Get a rental. I learned to drive stick in the early '90s by renting a Miata with a manual transmission for about three days. Drove the hell out of it, and it was not pretty. I'm sure the car was never the same, but it did the job!

[TuRo]

Right decision - getting an old timer sorted by RSC is like a having a game of whack-a-mole!

[TimeLord2]

My Dad gave me his GMT when I graduated college. I sent it off to Phillip Ridley, who is Bob Ridley's son. He has many favorable reviews on TRF and knows the value of vintage watches, do a search. Not to sidetrack this thread but here is the one I started regarding my GMT watch when I first visited TRF to find out what to do with it: https://www.rolexforums.com/showthread.php?t=660036. TRF has a great group of very experienced people who are more than willing to share their unique knowledge. I have also used Rolliworks for a jubilee bracelet and you can see the results there too. I have also heard Ric Deitel (Florida) is an excellent watchmaker as well and vintage sympathetic but have no experience first hand. I was very satisfied with Phillip and he did help source a period correct bezel for my watch. It's still running about .5 seconds a day fast. Good luck and cool story! Wicked car too BTW!!

[njsteve]

Originally Posted by TimeLord2

My Dad gave me his GMT when I graduated college. I sent it off to Phillip Ridley, who is Bob Ridley's son. He has many favorable reviews on TRF and knows the value of vintage watches, do a search. Not to sidetrack this thread but here is the one I started regarding my GMT watch when I first visited TRF to find out what to do with it: https://www.rolexforums.com/showthread.php?t=660036. TRF has a great group of very experienced people who are more than willing to share their unique knowledge. I have also used Rolliworks for a jubilee bracelet and you can see the results there too. I have also heard Ric Deitel (Florida) is an excellent watchmaker as well and vintage sympathetic but have no experience first hand. I was very satisfied with Phillip and he did help source a period correct bezel for my watch. It's still running about .5 seconds a day fast. Good luck and cool story! Wicked car too BTW!!

Thank you and I enjoyed reading your thread as well.

[njsteve]

Originally Posted by TimeLord2

My Dad gave me his GMT when I graduated college. I sent it off to Phillip Ridley, who is Bob Ridley's son. He has many favorable reviews on TRF and knows the value of vintage watches, do a search. Not to sidetrack this thread but here is the one I started regarding my GMT watch when I first visited TRF to find out what to do with it: https://www.rolexforums.com/showthread.php?t=660036. TRF has a great group of very experienced people who are more than willing to share their unique knowledge. I have also used Rolliworks for a jubilee bracelet and you can see the results there too. I have also heard Ric Deitel (Florida) is an excellent watchmaker as well and vintage sympathetic but have no experience first hand. I was very satisfied with Phillip and he did help source a period correct bezel for my watch. It's still running about .5 seconds a day fast. Good luck and cool story! Wicked car too BTW!!

By the way, did Phillip Ridley provide you with those detail shots during his servicing of your watch? Rolex refused my requests for any type of photos during the process or even a photo of the case back so I could see if there were any prior markings from a non-rolex service in the past 35 years.(another reason I cancelled)

[TimeLord2]

Originally Posted by njsteve

By the way, did Phillip Ridley provide you with those detail shots during his servicing of your watch? Rolex refused my requests for any type of photos during the process or even a photo of the case back so I could see if there were any prior markings from a non-rolex service in the past 35 years.(another reason I cancelled)

Yes, he did. He likes to photograph his work. I asked for a few photos and he sent a few. There were more that I did not post. I would just give him a call. He is quite easy to talk to. He answered all of my stupid questions… And why when my Dad was ready to service his watch I recommended Phillip as well. https://ridleywatchmakers.com/

[phillip ridley]

Originally Posted by njsteve

Back in July of 1987 I celebrated my college graduation by wandering around Europe on a Eurail pass with a college buddy for 6 weeks. Just for fun we would price specific watches in every country we went to. I was looking for a GMT Master and he was looking for Tag Heuers. The most expensive place we found was Geneva. The cheapest was Florence, Italy on that day based on the US/Lira exchange rate. (My college buddy was an econonics major and was day-trading his currency between countries as we went along - it worked out well for us!).

Anyway, I ended up buying two GMT 16750s at a Rolex dealer in Florence, Italy for what worked out to be $1,048 each. I gave one to my Dad for Father's Day and I kept the other. We both have been wearing them for the past 35 years. Last week my 90 year-old Dad decided to give his watch to my son (his grandson) as a birthday/college graduation gift.

Since I don't think my Dad ever had his watch serviced, I brought it to my local jeweler to send to Rolex for a servicing estimate. I specifically told them the dial remains and the bracelet remains. I will not be replacing them because they are family heirlooms. It's kind of like George Washington's axe - if you changed the broken axe handle in 1800 and then changed the cracked axe head in 1810, what is left of the original axe? This is the exact watch my Dad wore and was part of his personality for 35 years. Replacing the major visual cues would remove the soul of the watch.

Anyway, while I await their estimate (and attempts to get me to replace major parts) I thought I would post the photos here. While they are not sequentially serial numbered, they are 105 numbers apart.

I had my watch serviced by Rolex in 2001 (back then they returned my original 1987 red/blue bezel and the hands in a cool little official Rolex tin) and 2010 when they kept the hands and any other parts. I refused their offer of a replacement bracelet because they refused to give me back my original if I accepted.

Here they are:

Mine and my Dad's (son's now)

Amazing story and quite the pair to have as family heirlooms!

[Tikoni]

Both looks nice 👍🏻

[Juhuatai]

Can highly recommend Phillip if you are looking for a watchmaker. Worked on my 5508 and did a fantastic job!

[njsteve]

My Dad's GMT arrived back from the RSC today and I picked it up. It is still happily ticking away. I set it to the same time as mine and will follow along to see if they both read the same tomorrow.

When I got home I took out a super-bright LED flashlight and went into a dark closet with the two watches. I shined the light on my watch and as expected, just the four hands illuminated and nothing from the original dial. I already knew the hands were replaced back in 2001 as I have the originals safely stored away.

I then shined the flashlight on my Dad's watch and only the second hand and the minute hand, faintly glowed. Nothing from the dial, the hour hand or the 24 hour hand. So I guess that means they are probably the original hands.

I have been conversing with Phillip Ridley and will now see about getting the movement serviced on Dad's watch. I may wait til after the holidays as I fear shipping anything during this time of year.

[njsteve]

My Dad's 16750 is now in the hands of Phillip Ridley. He received it yesterday and called me today with the estimate. Suprisingly he indicated that it had been serviced by someone at least twice before and was missing a tiny screw. He assumed it had to have been left out because if it fell out while the watch was running, it would have jammed up the internals.

He indicated that the hour hand and the second hand are luminova while the 24 hour hand and minute hands are tritium. We will replace those service replacement hands with originals (either the tritiums from my watch that Rolex returned to me in 2001 or ones that he has in stock.). He included a rather long and detailed list of what needs to be done to make the watch worthy of being passed on to the next generation in my family as a long term heirloom.

He will also be sending me photos that I will post, just in case anyone is interested in documenting the vivisection process.

[jatco]

Originally Posted by njsteve

My Dad's 16750 is now in the hands of Phillip Ridley. He received it yesterday and called me today with the estimate. Suprisingly he indicated that it had been serviced by someone at least twice before and was missing a tiny screw. He assumed it had to have been left out because if it fell out while the watch was running, it would have jammed up the internals.

He indicated that the hour hand and the second hand are luminova while the 24 hour hand and minute hands are tritium. We will replace those service replacement hands with originals (either the tritiums from my watch that Rolex returned to me in 2001 or ones that he has in stock.). He included a rather long and detailed list of what needs to be done to make the watch worthy of being passed on to the next generation in my family as a long term heirloom.

He will also be sending me photos that I will post, just in case anyone is interested in documenting the vivisection process.

..Alrighty then,.. the saga continues...
Looking forward to the end result..as Im sure you are. At least we know the watch is in Great hands....

[Dan S]

Originally Posted by njsteve

the hour hand and the second hand are luminova while the 24 hour hand and minute hands are tritium.

Interesting that the hands were replaced in a piecemeal way previously, which also explains why you had a hard time initially determining if they were original or replacements.

[njsteve]

Yeah it looks like I was half right about the hands… or half wrong depending on your viewpoint.

[King0424]

This is so awesome..I love seeing stories like this.

[Dan S]

Originally Posted by njsteve

Yeah it looks like I was half right about the hands… or half wrong depending on your viewpoint.

And I'm pleased that I didn't allow you to pin me down to an opinion about them. Some things are just really hard to determine from photos. Inspecting them in-hand with a loupe and UV lamp was the way to go.

[wilsonpepper]

With regard to the bracelet - if this watch is going to be worn everyday as a daily driver, you might reconsider a new bracelet install (of course keeping the original).

You say that the bracelet has 45 degrees of slop in it, and what happens if you are driving the car with your arm out the window, and the bracelet comes apart and falls onto the road while you are traveling 45mph + + (hell 25mph for that matter).

If the watch will be a safe queen, no new bracelet needed, if the watch is going to be worn, a new bracelet is going to save a lot of tears !

[RedSub]

Phillip Ridley is fantastic, you made the correct choice. Can’t wait to see the photos from him during your service.

[TuRo]

Originally Posted by njsteve

Here's the bracelet numbers on my watch. They are the same on both of our GMTs

All good - little fun fact for the newbies, for a period in the 90's , on the 2 last links (but not the clasp) the 3 in 78360 and 93150 came with both a Flat top and a Round top to the 3.

[njsteve]

Originally Posted by wilsonpepper

With regard to the bracelet - if this watch is going to be worn everyday as a daily driver, you might reconsider a new bracelet install (of course keeping the original).

You say that the bracelet has 45 degrees of slop in it, and what happens if you are driving the car with your arm out the window, and the bracelet comes apart and falls onto the road while you are traveling 45mph + + (hell 25mph for that matter).

If the watch will be a safe queen, no new bracelet needed, if the watch is going to be worn, a new bracelet is going to save a lot of tears !

Phillip Ridely sent the bracelet out to get cleaned and repaired (but not polished) so we should be good to go when it all comes back.