Nightmare In-Warrenty issue with Tourneau

[masyv6]

Originally Posted by brandxbrand

Thank you ALL for the amazing feedback. Lots of great points, many great suggestions.

I have drafted an email to T and will send in the morning. Bottom line, i dropped off a watch with a years worth of manufactures warranty left on it and that is what I expecting the receive back.

Will let you know we get on!

In the meantime, my other watches are enjoying being on rotation again. Black Bay was the only watch I've worn for the past 6 months with exception of my wedding day!

Thanks again all!

Hope it all gets taken care of!

Not the first horror story from them around these parts.

[77T]

Originally Posted by JacksonStone

That may not be entirely true. For one, through either negligence or malfeasance, they caused the original factory warranty to be void, which is something OP paid for. This could be grounds for a suit in negligence, should OP suffer any damages as a result of not having the factory warranty (unlikely). It could also be considered a breach of the original sale, since Torneau altered the original terms: the watch was sold with a factory warranty, and it no longer has one. In theory, this might give him grounds to declare the original sale void and demand a refund, although he'd have a fight on his hands.

Beyond that, there may be some fraud involved, if Torneau is in the habit of representing their watches as having a factory warranty, but selling them with zero intention of having the factory warranty honored (effectively making them equivalent to grey market). Why they would do this, I don't know. Since they're an AD, it's hard to imagine they're passing off grey market goods as legit retail. As such, this theory is a stretch, and they likely just screwed up. However, if they do this on a regular basis, there would be grounds for the state attorney general to investigate them for consumer fraud.

None of this means it's worth the OP's time to take on. The actual damages are likely negligible, and state agencies are not likely to respond, unless there is an existing record of similar complaints. However, it might be worth filing a complaint with the AG's office, just so there is a record on file. If the OP can think of any way in which he's been harmed, then he can consider of course of action with Torneau. Probably, though, he's better off just accepting the situation and making the best of it.

I'll stand by my shorter version - never forget Hanlon's razor - it works overtime at Tourneau.

The OP asked Tourneau to take a look at it...

[JacksonStone]

Originally Posted by 77T

I'll stand by my shorter version - never forget Hanlon's razor - it works overtime at Tourneau.

If it weren't for negligence due to stupidity, most tort lawyers would be out of a job. But given that OP voluntarily associated with Torneau, a jury might just find the OP was comparatively negligent by more than 50%.

[bondtoys]

Originally Posted by sleddog

He could be trained and certified by the Rolex establishment or standards, but if not working out of a Rolex or Rolex affiliated work center, then that in itself voids any warranty.
Kind of like having your Ford warranty performed at GM by a Ford trained tech. Not that he can't do it, but that it isn't under the warranty guidelines..

Seems not to be the same to me.

Work has been carried out at an AD (Tourneau) by a Tudor certified repair centre (Tourneau) - so I don't understand the issue there.

So along your parrallel, you take your Ford to a Ford authorised dealer and have it repaired by a Ford certified mechanic.

The positive for the customer would by doing that would be saving time compared to the RSC.

[Ouro9999]

I believe you have not lost your original warranty. How will Rolex/Tudor know the watch was repaired? If this AD has tecnical expertise and original parts and the right tools its impossible to say the watch was repaired I believe. So whenever you get the watch back just take it to RSC to check the card and watch. I believe your warranty still there. If the watch is gray market they will let you know that.

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[Devildog]

Originally Posted by bondtoys

Seems not to be the same to me.

Work has been carried out at an AD (Tourneau) by a Tudor certified repair centre (Tourneau) - so I don't understand the issue there.

So along your parrallel, you take your Ford to a Ford authorised dealer and have it repaired by a Ford certified mechanic.

The positive for the customer would by doing that would be saving time compared to the RSC.

This ^^^

It may well be different in the US, however in the UK and Europe, if you take your watch, car, or any other item to a manufacturer authorised retailer for resolution of a problem under warranty, your manufacturers warranty remains intact. That's the whole point about them being "authorised". If that authorised retailer doesn't follow manufacturers protocol then that's an issue between the retailer and the manufacturer and does not affect your statutory rights. The manufacturer has to honour the warranty.

I'll caveat what I'm about to state by saying again that it may be different in the US, but there seems to be is alot of mis-information and "scaremongering" on this forum about subjects like these.

[Tony64]

Originally Posted by JacksonStone

That may not be entirely true. For one, through either negligence or malfeasance, they caused the original factory warranty to be void, which is something OP paid for. This could be grounds for a suit in negligence, should OP suffer any damages as a result of not having the factory warranty (unlikely). It could also be considered a breach of the original sale, since Torneau altered the original terms: the watch was sold with a factory warranty, and it no longer has one. In theory, this might give him grounds to declare the original sale void and demand a refund, although he'd have a fight on his hands.

Beyond that, there may be some fraud involved, if Torneau is in the habit of representing their watches as having a factory warranty, but selling them with zero intention of having the factory warranty honored (effectively making them equivalent to grey market). Why they would do this, I don't know. Since they're an AD, it's hard to imagine they're passing off grey market goods as legit retail. As such, this theory is a stretch, and they likely just screwed up. However, if they do this on a regular basis, there would be grounds for the state attorney general to investigate them for consumer fraud.

None of this means it's worth the OP's time to take on. The actual damages are likely negligible, and state agencies are not likely to respond, unless there is an existing record of similar complaints. However, it might be worth filing a complaint with the AG's office, just so there is a record on file. If the OP can think of any way in which he's been harmed, then he can consider of course of action with Torneau. Probably, though, he's better off just accepting the situation and making the best of it.

^^^ Brilliant. It's exactly this type of insightful and well-stated response that keeps me subscribing to the TRF!

[1William]

A difficult situation for the owner. Many issues and none of them make it easy. I would have to decide what I would want to do. If I loved the watch and it was going to stay in the collection then while I would be disappointed I would hang onto it and enjoy my five year warranty. If I was going to flip it at some point in the future I might just eat it and move on. Not a good choice for me. How much of a conflict with them do you want to get into? Me, all the way. I would meet with the sales manager in person, explain your situation and ask for a store credit for the value of what you paid for the watch. They sell a lot of used watches and yours will fit right in. Use the credit and purchase what you want. The margins on Tudor is 55% so arm yourself with the appropriate information. They made money on selling you the watch, they will make money on your old watch. If no satisfaction I would then walk it up the line. This is the kind of thing that has a tendency to ruin ownership on an item for me.

[SMD]

Just move on -- the work has already begun. You are not going to litigate this, and if you did what exactly are your damages? Chalk it up as a lesson learned.

[Juantxo]

Caveat emptor: Avoid Tourneau as you would the wrath of god.

Also, always send you watches directly to a RSC.

[904VT]

I'd file a complaint with Rolex/Tudor so long as Tourneau voided your manufacture warranty without your consent.

[kilyung]

Is anyone really surprised?

[Cerachrom12]

How can Tourneau maintain good standing as a Rolex/Tudor dealer when they knowingly circumvent the Rolex/Tudor factory warranty and send the watches to their own repair facility? I would have a big issue with this! And how is this "certified repair facility" reimbursed by Rolex for performing warranty work on behalf of Rolex?

[Juantxo]

Originally Posted by Cerachrom12

How can Tourneau maintain good standing as a Rolex/Tudor dealer when they knowingly circumvent the Rolex/Tudor factory warranty and send the watches to their own repair facility? I would have a big issue with this! And how is this "certified repair facility" reimbursed by Rolex for performing warranty work on behalf of Rolex?

Because somehow they sell lots of watches. One of the two Rolex boutiques in NYC is owned by them. And most people have no idea about their reputation, not everybody frequents these forums or has enough experience to gauge the kind of rats they are. As a matter of fact, very few people know the are the ones behind one of the Rolex boutiques in NYC. The other is owned by Wempe. Wempe, of course, is way superior in all respects to Tourneau.

[superdog]

Originally Posted by jjfesq

What's the big deal. Tourneau is not going anywhere. It's an AD. Not 47th st. They will fix your watch with legit parts.


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This is where I am at....not sure what the problem is.

[superdog]

Originally Posted by brandxbrand

Thank you ALL for the amazing feedback. Lots of great points, many great suggestions.

I have drafted an email to T and will send in the morning. Bottom line, i dropped off a watch with a years worth of manufactures warranty left on it and that is what I expecting the receive back.

Will let you know we get on!

In the meantime, my other watches are enjoying being on rotation again. Black Bay was the only watch I've worn for the past 6 months with exception of my wedding day!

Thanks again all!

But you are still getting a watch back with a warranty. And while Tourneau has its faults, they certainly know what they are doing with watches.

You are getting the watch expertly repaired and you have an even longer warranty period with an extremely reputable (if not great at customer service) company.

Sorry pal, I think you are making a mountain out of a mole hill. And I think you are causing yourself unnecessary stress.

Just my $.02

[brandxbrand]

Originally Posted by superdog

This is where I am at....not sure what the problem is.

My concern is this related to 3 main issues

1. Without my authorization, they took it upon themselves to transfer my factory warranty onto their own. I alerted them to the fact the work must be carried out my Rolex/Tudor 6 days ago. It was not even registered as a warranty claim with the manufacturer. I bought from an AD, not grey market, so do not expect grey market tactics or service.

2. The watch had factory warranty time remaining... A full year pretty much. If their service department cannot do something as simple check to see the current status of the factory warranty to decide if it should be sent to Rolex/Tudor for overhaul, or handled out-of-warranty at their own facility, I don't have much confidence in displaying anymore professionalism in correctly diagnosing and fixing the issue long term.

3. God forbid I have another mechanical issue in the next 12 months, whose to say Tourneau don't try and claim the issue was caused by my own fault. Their reputation as we know (and is case in this exact situation) not exactly A*. I have more comfort in knowing I am completely covered by Tudor/Rolex's guarantee of workmanship, who ONLY work on Tudors and Rolex's than I do with a 3rd party service center that deal with dozens if not hundreds of different brands and models with out of date factory warranties.

[superdog]

Originally Posted by brandxbrand

My concern is this related to 3 main issues

1. Without my authorization, they took it upon themselves to transfer my factory warranty onto their own. I alerted them to the fact the work must be carried out my Rolex/Tudor 6 days ago. It was not even registered as a warranty claim with the manufacturer. I bought from an AD, not grey market, so do not expect grey market tactics or service.

2. The watch had factory warranty time remaining... A full year pretty much. If their service department cannot do something as simple check to see the current status of the factory warranty to decide if it should be sent to Rolex/Tudor for overhaul, or handled out-of-warranty at their own facility, I don't have much confidence in displaying anymore professionalism in correctly diagnosing and fixing the issue long term.

3. God forbid I have another mechanical issue in the next 12 months, whose to say Tourneau don't try and claim the issue was caused by my own fault. Their reputation as we know (and is case in this exact situation) not exactly A*. I have more comfort in knowing I am completely covered by Tudor/Rolex's guarantee of workmanship, who ONLY work on Tudors and Rolex's than I do with a 3rd party service center that deal with dozens if not hundreds of different brands and models with out of date factory warranties.




There was time to prevent this. Communication breakdown and huge error

yeah, each thing you bring up is a true blue non-issue. you are getting all worked up about assumptions.

sorry Tourneau is not gray market in any way shape or form. in fact, they are likely the most well known AD of all kinds of watches in the world.

and boo hoo, they took it upon themselves to fix your watch instead of sending it out.

because they decide (correctly or not) to fix it by themselves instead of following another protocol, you are questioning their technical ability to fix a watch? that is a huge reach.

ok, sure...there could have been better communication. but if you sent it back to Rolex likely you would not have it back for 6-8 weeks.

pros and cons to everything.

and it is your choice to be upset about this if you want.

if it were me, I would thank them for their efforts and move on.

[blue16613]

Once again, the beauty of this place is the diversity of opinion. So helpful to always get the full scope of reactions from a devoted group of people.

Just in case the OP is keeping score, I'm with him on this one. I'd be french fried about this, too.

I also second the comment(s) made by others to not use Tourneau as a place to make a purchase of a high end watch.

[MVP]

Originally Posted by SMD

Just move on -- the work has already begun. You are not going to litigate this, and if you did what exactly are your damages? Chalk it up as a lesson learned.

Yup exactly.

Best way to "collect" damages would be to negotiate a nice discount on your next purchase with them. Except for the warranty issue (which functionally is not really an issue if all comes back working and with a new 5yr warranty), it seems like you are happy with the person you dealt with and now you know what to expect going into the transaction. Still doesn't make what they did acceptable, but I'm sure you can use this to your advantage moving forward.

[Danny83]

The ETA movement is easy to work on I dont think its a big deal.

[Micha]

Originally Posted by jjfesq

What's the big deal. Tourneau is not going anywhere. It's an AD. Not 47th st. They will fix your watch with legit parts.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

YES x2

[Etschell]

Originally Posted by japenney

Thanks for the clarification. I learned something new today. Don't have a rolex certified independent work on a watch under warranty. Thanks you 👍.

Sent by my pet Gekko

im shocked anyone would. do you take your car to a 3rd party mechanic under warranty to fix an issue?

[Robbyman]

Originally Posted by JacksonStone

That may not be entirely true. For one, through either negligence or malfeasance, they caused the original factory warranty to be void, which is something OP paid for. This could be grounds for a suit in negligence, should OP suffer any damages as a result of not having the factory warranty (unlikely). It could also be considered a breach of the original sale, since Torneau altered the original terms: the watch was sold with a factory warranty, and it no longer has one. In theory, this might give him grounds to declare the original sale void and demand a refund, although he'd have a fight on his hands.

Beyond that, there may be some fraud involved, if Torneau is in the habit of representing their watches as having a factory warranty, but selling them with zero intention of having the factory warranty honored (effectively making them equivalent to grey market). Why they would do this, I don't know. Since they're an AD, it's hard to imagine they're passing off grey market goods as legit retail. As such, this theory is a stretch, and they likely just screwed up. However, if they do this on a regular basis, there would be grounds for the state attorney general to investigate them for consumer fraud.

None of this means it's worth the OP's time to take on. The actual damages are likely negligible, and state agencies are not likely to respond, unless there is an existing record of similar complaints. However, it might be worth filing a complaint with the AG's office, just so there is a record on file. If the OP can think of any way in which he's been harmed, then he can consider of course of action with Torneau. Probably, though, he's better off just accepting the situation and making the best of it.

You sir, have summed the situation up perfectly and offered great advice.

[JacksonStone]

Originally Posted by superdog

sorry Tourneau is not gray market in any way shape or form. in fact, they are likely the most well known AD of all kinds of watches in the world.

What's the difference between a watch purchased from and AD, and a gray market watch? In most cases, it's the factory warranty, and in some cases, not even that. The only leverage Rolex/Tudor (or any watch company, for that matter) has to convince customers to buy watches through ADs and pay full retail is that they won't honor their warranty otherwise. So, the OP goes to an AD and pays retail. Only, they don't honor the factory warranty, and service the watch themselves, in turn voiding the warranty. Explain to me how that isn't a gray market tactic? I know Torneau is not a gray market seller, but in this case, what is the difference?

[JElvis]

There have been threads on this before. A poster sent his explorer II polar for service through Tourneau --- they sent it to Long Island City. When he picked it up from Tourneau, the bezel of the wash was completely polished (it is suppsoed to be brushed) - The poster flipped out on the store (huntington tourneau in new york) - and the salesman sensed trouble and refused to give the watch back saying "he would make it right." The poster called RSC new york, who got heavily involved. They contact the store, investigate. Ultimately the bezel was replaced by Rolex. I also remember the ENTIRE staff was replaced and/or transferred to a different location. I remember this well because it was shocking. What I do not understand is if Rolex gets these complaints, they don't do something significant and public about it. I really don't know. I would only send directly to RSC.

[brandxbrand]

@JacksonStone - you sir are brilliant. Thank you for your support. Might need to take you up on further council if this gets messy. What's your hourly?! ;-)

To those questioning the depth of validity of my concern, thanks also for your opinion, really! it's awesome to read the commentary. Yes, I know I'm being a bit baby about the whole situation and still on paper have a warranty of some kind, but it's not the reason spent a premium to buy from an AD at full blown retail + tax.

If I didn't care about the importance of factory warranty, even on an ETA movement watch, I would have held out and purchased from said 47th Street from a guy in a kiosk that also has a service department somewhere in his back room.

[Cerachrom12]

Originally Posted by JElvis

There have been threads on this before. A poster sent his explorer II polar for service through Tourneau --- they sent it to Long Island City. When he picked it up from Tourneau, the bezel of the wash was completely polished (it is suppsoed to be brushed) - The poster flipped out on the store (huntington tourneau in new york) - and the salesman sensed trouble and refused to give the watch back saying "he would make it right." The poster called RSC new york, who got heavily involved. They contact the store, investigate. Ultimately the bezel was replaced by Rolex. I also remember the ENTIRE staff was replaced and/or transferred to a different location. I remember this well because it was shocking. What I do not understand is if Rolex gets these complaints, they don't do something significant and public about it. I really don't know. I would only send directly to RSC.

Unfortunately there are millions of Rolex/Tudor owners out there who have no idea that they can send their watch directly to an RSC. Or, feel uncomfortable with sending it so they take it back to the AD that sold it.

[904VT]

Originally Posted by superdog

yeah, each thing you bring up is a true blue non-issue. you are getting all worked up about assumptions.

sorry Tourneau is not gray market in any way shape or form. in fact, they are likely the most well known AD of all kinds of watches in the world.

and boo hoo, they took it upon themselves to fix your watch instead of sending it out.

because they decide (correctly or not) to fix it by themselves instead of following another protocol, you are questioning their technical ability to fix a watch? that is a huge reach.

ok, sure...there could have been better communication. but if you sent it back to Rolex likely you would not have it back for 6-8 weeks.

pros and cons to everything.

and it is your choice to be upset about this if you want.

if it were me, I would thank them for their efforts and move on.

I get why you would defend Tourneau, but the bottom line is they voided the OP's manufacture warranty without the OP's expressed or written consent. Completely unacceptable and something that should never be done.

[U5512]

I would have sent the watch back to Rolex/Tudor RSC myself for warranty repair....but oh well.