SwissWatchExpo sold me a fake Daytona 116500 for $21,800

[Blakerhodes]

Originally Posted by GLADIATOR

Now that is interesting.
Well pointed out.
I have a feeling our OP HAS retired from
This thread.

And yes I’m retired of this thread. The point of it was to warn people of Swisswatchexpo, mission accomplished. Complaints have been filed with the fbi and FTC to hopefully prevent this from happening again.

[erhein]

Originally Posted by Blakerhodes

Complaints have been filed with the fbi and FTC to hopefully prevent this from happening again.

Good!

[Onikage]

Ouch I was planning on getting a Daytona when I win the lottery..

[bulldurham]

Adding another data point here with regards to SwissWatchExpo. I purchased a 16710 from them when I admittedly knew far less about watches that I do today. I was pretty put off by the entire buying experience - they were in the process of moving locations, and all the inventory was haphazardly strewn about. There wasn't a professionalism or communication that you would expect of an organization that moves as much high dollar value inventory as they do. I'll admit it didn't raise as many red flags as it should have at the time, partly due to my inexperience. In any case, I bought the watch and enjoyed it... although in the back of my mind there was always a prevailing discomfort with the chance that I could have been duped.

I've since sent the watch to Rolex for service (more for peace of mind than for fixing anything), and felt relief when they worked on it and sent it back without issues. So... they do sell real watches, but as a consumer I had strong suspicions about the business even before reading this story. Despite being an ATL resident, they'll never see my business again.

[Etschell]

Originally Posted by Blakerhodes

And yes I’m retired of this thread. The point of it was to warn people of Swisswatchexpo, mission accomplished. Complaints have been filed with the fbi and FTC to hopefully prevent this from happening again.

[tigey]

This Daytona super clone fake shown in the watchfinder vid is bringing in a new avenue for scammers. Its scary. It seems like the Scammer buys a real Daytona complete set, probably floats it on a credit card. Then he buys the super clone fake Daytona. Takes both watches to some shady back room pawn shop watchsmith and gets the movements swapped. He can sell the fake watch/real movement with real box and papers, and fake warranty card with matching serials to a grey easy since the Grey is thinking about flipping it for a nice profit. Scammer then sells the real watch/fake movement to another grey since it looks 100% perfect and would fool anyone short of opening the case. Heck, even an AD would run the genuine serial and say its real. Then the scammer can pay off the initial loan and still have a cool $8K-$10K profit. Once the greys sell the watches to the general public, the scammers hands are clean and he is off the hook. After all, the professional jeweler's examined them and gave them the OK.

[GLADIATOR]

Originally Posted by tigey

This Daytona super clone fake shown in the watchfinder vid is bringing in a new avenue for scammers. Its scary. It seems like the Scammer buys a real Daytona complete set, probably floats it on a credit card. Then he buys the super clone fake Daytona. Takes both watches to some shady back room pawn shop watchsmith and gets the movements swapped. He can sell the fake watch/real movement with real box and papers, and fake warranty card with matching serials to a grey easy since the Grey is thinking about flipping it for a nice profit. Scammer then sells the real watch/fake movement to another grey since it looks 100% perfect and would fool anyone short of opening the case. Heck, even an AD would run the genuine serial and say its real. Then the scammer can pay off the initial loan and still have a cool $8K-$10K profit. Once the greys sell the watches to the general public, the scammers hands are clean and he is off the hook. After all, the professional jeweler's examined them and gave them the OK.

These 2 points are simply NOT correct.
Firstly this is big/huge business in the same league as drugs, its not a one or two backstreet business.
Why? Firstly there are literally hundred of these now know, secondly I have on offer GENUINE movements on eBay and NO one buys them! We know that these are now coming direct from ROLEX in a big qty
Thirdly you can not buy for under about $18k a SS daytona

Your 2nd point also is incorrect. The case serial number is FAKE it is in most cases known as fake.
The genuine serial number on the movement is ONLY known to ROLEX.
Only they can tell what watch it was fitted in and what the case serial number of that watch is!

This is big business I have personally seen 12 pieces and others reported. ROLEX told me its now a WW issues - they even have a name for these pieces "ZOMBIE" watches.

Its very tough now to truly authenticate a ROLEX unless you know other points to check.
I call them the "Dirty Dozen" ALL external checks
Adam

[smym18]

Originally Posted by GLADIATOR

These 2 points are simply NOT correct.
Firstly this is big/huge business in the same league as drugs, its not a one or two backstreet business.
Why? Firstly there are literally hundred of these now know, secondly I have on offer GENUINE movements on eBay and NO one buys them! We know that these are now coming direct from ROLEX in a big qty
Thirdly you can not buy for under about $18k a SS daytona

Your 2nd point also is incorrect. The case serial number is FAKE it is in most cases known as fake.
The genuine serial number on the movement is ONLY known to ROLEX.
Only they can tell what watch it was fitted in and what the case serial number of that watch is!

This is big business I have personally seen 12 pieces and others reported. ROLEX told me its now a WW issues - they even have a name for these pieces "ZOMBIE" watches.

Its very tough now to truly authenticate a ROLEX unless you know other points to check.
I call them the "Dirty Dozen" ALL external checks
Adam

So you’re saying Rolex themselves is just sending a bunch of movements alone out there? Why would they do that?

Also, haven’t you said multiple times in this thread you’ve seen 10? And now it’s 12 suddenly?

I’m no expert per say, but I never know what to believe with Gladiator. You sound so convincing and confident in all these watch out threads, yet in every one of them someone is there to counter your points.

[GLADIATOR]

Originally Posted by smym18

So you’re saying Rolex themselves is just sending a bunch of movements alone out there? Why would they do that?

Also, haven’t you said multiple times in this thread you’ve seen 10? And now it’s 12 suddenly?

I’m no expert per say, but I never know what to believe with Gladiator. You sound so convincing and confident in all these watch out threads, yet in every one of them someone is there to counter your points.

I NEVER said or implied your point 1. These are being stolen direct from Rolex.

I said 10, but it increases, I now include this watch and other reported to me Hardly suddenly.
It’s increasing weekly.

Believe what you want, I care not.
You can believe the attacks or you can believe the facts.

Yes I am confident. Am I ever wrong? Hell yes. But not in this case.
Genuine movements exist in fake watches.
How I know 100%, why I care not the doubters
Cause ROLEX confirmed my evidence

[antrolexsub]

Originally Posted by GLADIATOR

I NEVER said or implied your point 1. These are being stolen direct from Rolex.

I said 10, but it increases, I now include this watch and other reported to me Hardly suddenly.
It’s increasing weekly.

Believe what you want, I care not.
You can believe the attacks or you can believe the facts.

Yes I am confident. Am I ever wrong? Hell yes. But not in this case.
Genuine movements exist in fake watches.
How I know 100%, why I care not the doubters
Cause ROLEX confirmed my evidence

With all due respect Adam, this is complete and utter rubbish.

Rolex have spent tens of millions on their stock control system alone. Every single component is stored in a huge automated vault. The only time a human goes in there is for maintenance. Humans do not retrieve parts. It’s done automatically. The staff have to be logged on to the system which is incredibly secure, each staff has their own login, nowadays it’s more than likely secured via biometrics/fingerprints. The required part numbers are entered into the system and then a robot retrieves the parts from the vault, places it onto the conveyer belt that’s going to the correct location and brings them to a collection point. The staff member then has to scan a card to get the part. Certain parts are only available to certain staff members, I.e people building 3135s have no access to 4130 parts etc. Very few have access to the complete inventory. The entire area is covered in high definition CCTV.

Even if they were to bypass this somehow. They’d be caught leaving the building by metal detectors/scanners. Rolex have invested serious money to make sure this doesn’t happen.

Stock control is heavily monitored. Stealing parts is neigh on impossible, let alone stealing vast amounts of traceable, serial numbered complete movements.
One Cal.3135 movement theft would flag as 200+ missing parts from stock. One movement going missing would trigger an internal investigation.

Old parts removed from movements are tallied up to new parts removed from inventory.

I can absolutely assure you these movements are not coming direct from Rolex. The place is a modern day Fort Knox. However unlikely that the movements are being stolen, what’s even more unlikely is Rolex confirming it to anyone outside of the company. The damage that could do to the company is immense, and Rolex are far from stupid.

One of the few images that exist of the vault and stock control delivery system. No phones are allowed anywhere near this:

[JBZ]

Originally Posted by smym18

So you’re saying Rolex themselves is just sending a bunch of movements alone out there? Why would they do that?

Also, haven’t you said multiple times in this thread you’ve seen 10? And now it’s 12 suddenly?

I’m no expert per say, but I never know what to believe with Gladiator. You sound so convincing and confident in all these watch out threads, yet in every one of them someone is there to counter your points.

Don't listen to him. His advice is spotty at best and his claims of having a direct line to Rolex are laughable. Notice that whenever anyone asks him for actual evidence to back up his assertions, he ignores them or refuses to provide it.

As pointed out above, there is simply no way Rolex is sending out/losing/having stolen the number of movements that would be necessary to perpetrate the type of fraud Gladiator claims is happening on a grand scale.

Zombie watches.

[tigey]

Originally Posted by JBZ

Don't listen to him. His advice is spotty at best and his claims of having a direct line to Rolex are laughable. Notice that whenever anyone asks him for actual evidence to back up his assertions, he ignores them or refuses to provide it.

As pointed out above, there is simply no way Rolex is sending out/losing/having stolen the number of movements that would be necessary to perpetrate the type of fraud Gladiator claims is happening on a grand scale.

Zombie watches.

A genuine movement has to come from a genuine watch someone purchased. They can part out the watch and maybe make more money, or frankenstein 2 watches or more from fakes simply becuase the super clone Daytona out now can accept genuine parts.

[Twisted Vicar]

Originally Posted by GLADIATOR

Sold the movements separately.

Interested to know who you sold it to, with the confidence that it wouldn't end up back in a fake case?

[dan993]

A question to Gladiator/Adam why if you have this evidence from Rolex confirming that genuine movements are appearing in fake cases why will you not make this public. It seems to me that your opinion is questioned a lot of the time and, this evidence will do your reputation no harm. I don't understand your reluctance.

[GLADIATOR]

Originally Posted by dan993

A question to Gladiator/Adam why if you have this evidence from Rolex confirming that genuine movements are appearing in fake cases why will you not make this public. It seems to me that your opinion is questioned a lot of the time and, this evidence will do your reputation no harm. I don't understand your reluctance.

People can believe or disbelieve - its of no relevance to me!
I try to help, some accept it, others make personal attacks. I care not.

These are GENUINE movements, being stolen from ROLEX and fitted into fake cases.

All I know from ROLEX is :
1) They confirm these movements were genuine
2) Where the movements are NOT stolen from.

Now maybe with the serial numbers I have supplied, they will stop the leak - I can only hope for.

I have no more to add or subtract.
The OPs movement is/was 100% genuine and original - yet we got people still claiming its an Asian Clone or some sort of FRANKEN - simply NOT correct

[smym18]

Originally Posted by GLADIATOR

People can believe or disbelieve - its of no relevance to me!
I try to help, some accept it, others make personal attacks. I care not.

These are GENUINE movements, being stolen from ROLEX and fitted into fake cases.

All I know from ROLEX is :
1) They confirm these movements were genuine
2) Where the movements are NOT stolen from.

Now maybe with the serial numbers I have supplied, they will stop the leak - I can only hope for.

I have no more to add or subtract.
The OPs movement is/was 100% genuine and original - yet we got people still claiming its an Asian Clone or some sort of FRANKEN - simply NOT correct

Yeah dude, pretty sure we understand what you are trying to say for the 100th time. Way to dodge the question, again, by providing zero proof or evidence to back your claims. No wonder no one chooses to believe you.

Happy 1000th post to me.

[cajunron]

Originally Posted by smym18

Yeah dude, pretty sure we understand what you are trying to say for the 100th time. Way to dodge the question, again, by providing zero proof or evidence to back your claims. No wonder no one chooses to believe you.

Happy 1000th post to me.

He has a direct line to Rolex!

[CorradoBrit]

Originally Posted by cajunron

He has a direct line to Rolex!

Only in his fantasy land. At least he brings some levity to the proceedings. Conspiracy Theory Gladiator

[Mr Perfect]

Originally Posted by GLADIATOR

These are being stolen direct from Rolex.

<more nonsense>

Cause ROLEX confirmed my evidence

Priceless.

Any shred of credibility you had (which was largely all lost when you botched the identification of a fake movement earlier in the thread) has now gone.

Please though, keep on entertaining us, it's very AMUSING.

[mfnj]

This is an intriguing thread and I have no dog in this fight as to individual posters and who is right and wrong. The takeaway for me, and probably for all of us, is that there are very good fakes out there (cases and movements), scammers are getting better all the time, replicas and fakes are getting better all the time and when buying a watch one needs to be careful and do their diligence to the best of their ability. Diligence will be done differently by each of us of course, but BUYER BE CAREFUL!

[jbreeden]

Lets ask the questions that really matter...
Do you think it was polished?
What do you think the future value will be?
will fake movements in real cases be worth more than real movements in fake cases?

[77T]

Originally Posted by jbreeden

Lets ask the questions that really matter...
Do you think it was polished?
What do you think the future value will be?
will fake movements in real cases be worth more than real movements in fake cases?

there ya go inserting logic into the midst of chaos...


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

[bondtoys]

Originally Posted by GLADIATOR

I try to help, some accept it, others make personal attacks. I care not.

All I know from ROLEX is :
1) They confirm these movements were genuine
2) Where the movements are NOT stolen from.

Which leads you wrongly to the assumption that the movements are coming from Rolex while disregarding the third possibility

3) these movements where taken out of real watches which have been purchased somewhere.

The „I try to help“ really gets old because you are covering all your mistakes and wrong infos with that.

It doesn‘t matter what you are trying to do, YOU ARE WRONG IN MOST CASES!!!

[tyler1980]

Originally Posted by bondtoys

Which leads you wrongly to the assumption that the movements are coming from Rolex while disregarding the third possibility

3) these movements where taken out of real watches which have been purchased somewhere.

The „I try to help“ really gets old because you are covering all your mistakes and wrong infos with that.

It doesn‘t matter what you are trying to do, YOU ARE WRONG IN MOST CASES!!!

i tend to lean this way.

However i keep saying its the fact the movements are so good that is the most troubling part. Lets all not get so deep into the weeds that we ignore the fact that wherever these are coming from its making verification extremely difficult

How they are getting them is secondary to me and that doesn't matter. The fact they are that good or real and its only a matter of time until the case copies get that good

[red1108nyc]

Information posted here would certainly make me think twice about trading watches for now. Unless you have the capacity to open the watch and verify with a “trained” eye.. you are completely vulnerable. Watershed moment in this bubble like market.

[GLADIATOR]

Originally Posted by red1108nyc

Information posted here would certainly make me think twice about trading watches for now. Unless you have the capacity to open the watch and verify with a “trained” eye.. you are completely vulnerable. Watershed moment in this bubble like market.

Sadly opening the watch is not the "golden bullet" test anymore. Genuine movements exist (like OPs watch) in completely fake watches.

External inspection is now the 'order of the day'

[smym18]

Originally Posted by GLADIATOR

Sadly opening the watch is not the "golden bullet" test anymore. Genuine movements exist (like OPs watch) in completely fake watches.

External inspection is now the 'order of the day'

Credit where credit is due; your ability to completely ignore being called out for your contradictions time and time again and continue on your path is amazing.

[GLADIATOR]

Originally Posted by smym18

Credit where credit is due; your ability to completely ignore being called out for your contradictions time and time again and continue on your path is amazing.

LOL
So you think OPs watch movement is fake or franken? - ::sigh::

As they say "You Can Take A Horse To The Well, But You Can Not Make It Drink The Water"

[tigey]

Originally Posted by GLADIATOR

LOL
So you think OPs watch movement is fake or franken? - ::sigh::

As they say "You Can Take A Horse To The Well, But You Can Not Make It Drink The Water"

1) The scammer bought one genuine Daytona, and one fake (the one in watchfinder vid). Swapped movements and sold both watches as genuine and made thousands of dollars.

2) The movement was not stolen from the Rolex inventory vault by Ethan Hunt rapelling upside down from the ceiling vent through the lasers.

There are only two cases a genuine movement would be in a fake watch, Example 1. above as OP's watch. Or a personal wacth owner has a fake and wants to make it better by frankenstein with genuine parts, and eventually finds its way into the public

[Knappo 1307]

Originally Posted by GLADIATOR

LOL
So you think OPs watch movement is fake or franken? - ::sigh::

As they say "You Can Take A Horse To The Well, But You Can Not Make It Drink The Water"

It's lead a horse to water. Also the horse would need a really long neck to drink from a well. Just sayin....