The 3235 Movement and The Fix (3 years out)

[saxo3]

Originally Posted by TswaneNguni

You have a timegrapher and can do such tests?

Somebody who wears his watch permanently (day and night) will constantly "wind" it, hence a drop in amplitude will be observed much later. In addition the rate (s/d) will remain rather good, either a few seconds + or - per day. So you are "blind" for the issue, at least at the beginning. Rates strongly deviate as soon as amplitudes are around 200 degrees or below.
Key is measuring the movement amplitudes and not accuracy alone.
Amplitudes decrease rapid if there is enhanced friction somewhere or if inappropriate materials have been used. This could be correlated with the increased autonomy of 70 hours, so the designers had to reduce friction. Doing so, not only lubrication but also the right choice of materials is utmost important!

[TheVTCGuy]

Originally Posted by saxo3

You have a timegrapher and can do such tests?

Somebody who wears his watch permanently (day and night) will constantly "wind" it, hence a drop in amplitude will be observed much later. In addition the rate (s/d) will remain rather good, either a few seconds + or - per day. So you are "blind" for the issue, at least at the beginning. Rates strongly deviate as soon as amplitudes are around 200 degrees or below.
Key is measuring the movement amplitudes and not accuracy alone.
Amplitudes decrease rapid if there is enhanced friction somewhere or if inappropriate materials have been used. This could be correlated with the increased autonomy of 70 hours, so the designers had to reduce friction.

After the word "somebody" my brain melted.... Is this a good thing or a bad thing?

[saxo3]

Originally Posted by TheVTCGuy

After the word "somebody" my brain melted.... Is this a good thing or a bad thing?

A molten brain is never good.
"Somebody" means all persons who wear their watch day and night.

[TswaneNguni]

Originally Posted by saxo3

You have a timegrapher and can do such tests?

Somebody who wears his watch permanently (day and night) will constantly "wind" it, hence a drop in amplitude will be observed much later. In addition the rate (s/d) will remain rather good, either a few seconds + or - per day. So you are "blind" for the issue, at least at the beginning. Rates strongly deviate as soon as amplitudes are around 200 degrees or below.
Key is measuring the movement amplitudes and not accuracy alone.
Amplitudes decrease rapid if there is enhanced friction somewhere or if inappropriate materials have been used. This could be correlated with the increased autonomy of 70 hours, so the designers had to reduce friction. Doing so, not only lubrication but also the right choice of materials is utmost important!

Thats why I love this forum .I just learnt something new .

[saxo3]

Originally Posted by TswaneNguni

Thats why I love this forum .I just learnt something new .

Irony or serious?
Rather basic knowledge I thought
Btw I'm not a watchmaker!

[TswaneNguni]

Originally Posted by saxo3

Irony or serious?
Rather basic knowledge I thought
Btw I'm not a watchmaker!

No,serious comment .

[saxo3]

Originally Posted by TswaneNguni

No,serious comment .

I fully share what you wrote in another thread:
——
1)The lack of lubrication issue,was a temporary solution.
2)The second pinion hand wearing out ,making contact where it shouldn't .
3)A change of design is needed,
——
This fits with what I write here: increased 70 hours power reserve -> less friction required -> in case of an inappropriate design (materials?) this results in the opposite -> enhanced friction and wear -> fast drop of amplitudes to < 200 degrees -> increased rates -> caliber out of COSC.

[MikeyV]

I do notice that if I wear it to bed (I do this about 50/50) that it seems to run about a second less slow. So instead of -6 or -5, it might be more like -5 or -4.

Mine has low amplitude before I sent it in first time. Can't remember the exact numbers. Low amplitude face up.

[saxo3]

Originally Posted by MikeyV

I do notice that if I wear it to bed (I do this about 50/50) that it seems to run about a second less slow. So instead of -6 or -5, it might be more like -5 or -4.

Mine has low amplitude before I sent it in first time. Can't remember the exact numbers. Low amplitude face up.

Try to fully wind it once or even twice every day, for 1-2 weeks. Probably the amplitudes don't drop fast, then you could see a positive effect on the rates of your watch. That's only a short test! If you can, measure amplitudes and rates systematically, then you see how the movement changes with time.

[R.J.]

Originally Posted by DJ2020

My 126200 ran -7 right out of the gate (Oct 2020) After 2 regulations later it ran pretty much -0\+0, but that's only been 90 days ago. Someones else's problem now.

Right out of the gate my new datejust is running -4 seconds a day. When the lockdown here in Ontario is lifted it goes into the shop for correction. Hopefully they can correct it first time around.

[FTX I]

Originally Posted by saxo3

You have a timegrapher and can do such tests?

Somebody who wears his watch permanently (day and night) will constantly "wind" it, hence a drop in amplitude will be observed much later. In addition the rate (s/d) will remain rather good, either a few seconds + or - per day. So you are "blind" for the issue, at least at the beginning. Rates strongly deviate as soon as amplitudes are around 200 degrees or below.
Key is measuring the movement amplitudes and not accuracy alone.
Amplitudes decrease rapid if there is enhanced friction somewhere or if inappropriate materials have been used. This could be correlated with the increased autonomy of 70 hours, so the designers had to reduce friction. Doing so, not only lubrication but also the right choice of materials is utmost important!

Interesting. Thanks for sharing

[Dirt]

Originally Posted by saxo3

Irony or serious?
Rather basic knowledge I thought
Btw I'm not a watchmaker!

He's definately serious.
A predominately straight up member of the forum.

Keep in mind that everybodies knowledge base is different

[Dirt]

Originally Posted by TswaneNguni

Observation,dont know if the rest of you picked this up ,but when the 3235 is reported as running fine its almost always at a minus value and seldom at a plus value .

Yes, I noted that but consider it to be irrelevant.
There should be no difference between fast or slow as long as it displays precision.
Other than that the rate is a matter of preference as to how it's adjusted and eventually performs on the wrist.

[EEpro]

Originally Posted by sevykor

I posted about a year ago hoping to find the fix to the issues plaguing the 3235 movement. My post at the time was to find a reason and solution to the issue. While there were many interesting replies, no long term fix was ever found. That was the case until now.

I’ve been collecting Rolex and many other brands for over 20 years. Not for making money or investment, but rather for the pleasure of owning something that took skill, dedication and a relentless pursuit to horological perfection on the part of the maker. I could go on, but that’s not the purpose of this thread. You are all interested in how I got it fixed - right!?!

After the DJ41 came back from Rolex the second time, I was back to a happy and precise -1 seconds per day. Sure enough, 10 months later, almost seeming over night, the 3235 was encroaching -15 per day. This is now the third time the 3235 has failed. Back to my AD we go. They sent it to Rolex and it was back good as ever for the third time in only a few months. Only this time I knew if this goes on, I may not have a warranty to fall back on for too much longer. So I did what any reasonable person would do. I sold it!!! I can’t even begin to tell you what a great weight has been lifted.

I still own Rolex and I will continue to buy, but the 3235 is not ready. There are many theories listed by others in my previous post. I do have a suspicion, but I’m not certain if anyone here would be interested in hearing about it. Perhaps saved for a later thread so as to relieve you all from an extensive post here and now. I loved the DJ41, but in the end it was not meant to be it seems. I hope Rolex finds a fix for those of you who want to hold on to their piece. Some of you may be coming to that 5 year warranty expiration. Do you intend on paying out-of-pocket for repairs? I certainly was not up to the task of feeding Rolex with service costs. May the previous sentence give you some insight as to my speculations...

Good for you.

My DJ41 acted up at -30 seconds per day in month 11 and even had a stuck date wheel. I was told here it was "not a problem". I also sold it to a dealer. Screw that BS.

[Xyza0722]

Got my SD43 new from an AD here in HK in Mar 2020 ands had no problems whatsoever

It’s an awesome piece

[GL33]

By the time I had my SD43 for 6 months, it was -20sec/day and getting worse. I have not had anywhere near that with any other Rolex I have owned.

[sheldonsmith]

There’s plenty of discussion on this issue at https://www.rolexforums.com/showthread.php?t=728169

Perhaps the moderator can merge the threads.

~ Sheldon

[sevykor]

Originally Posted by sheldonsmith

There’s plenty of discussion on this issue at https://www.rolexforums.com/showthread.php?t=728169

Perhaps the moderator can merge the threads.

~ Sheldon

This “3 year out” thread was started with an intention to show that the issue with the 3235, while similar in subject matter to the “2 year out” thread, occurred three times. I feel it is important to make note of the fact that slowing in timekeeping often begins between the 9th and 11th month post purchase or COA service. For the first 9 months, the 3235 was very precise with barely any variance observed (very impressive to say the least). However, as I have learned, it was not an indicator as to the long-term reliability of the movement.

[Andad]

Originally Posted by saxo3

An interesting measurement is the following:
(1) Full winding of the movement
(2) Measure its amplitudes in all positions (except 12 h up); after each position change wait 2-3 minutes.
(3) Wait 24 hours with watch at rest
(4) Repeat step (2)
(5) Use 53 degrees as lift angle for 32xx calibers

Ok, I'll run this test on my DJ41 and post the results.

[TswaneNguni]

Originally Posted by sevykor

This “3 year out” thread was started with an intention to show that the issue with the 3235, while similar in subject matter, occurred three times. I feel it is important to make note of the fact that slowing in timekeeping consistently begins between the 9th and 11th month post purchase or COA service. For the first 9 months, the 3235 was very precise with barely any variance observed. Very impressive to say the least. However, as I have learned, it was not an indicator as to the long-term reliability of the movement.

Same 3235 movement,returning to RSC THREE times .
Same recurring problem ,fine time keeping,then significantly slower.

This clearly shows that if Rolex did have a design change to the 3235 to offer,RSC would definitely have implemented it .

At this stage its not costing owners service money,movements still covered under 5 year warrantee,but this is going to change soon ......

[sevykor]

Originally Posted by TswaneNguni

Same 3235 movement,returning to RSC THREE times .
Same recurring problem ,fine time keeping,then significantly slower.

This clearly shows that if Rolex did have a design change to the 3235 to offer,RSC would definitely have implemented it .

At this stage its not costing owners service money,movements still covered under 5 year warrantee,but this is going to change soon ......

...and that is precisely why I needed to let it go. It was like a ticking service expenditure time bomb. If it was just a lubrication issue, I believe it would have been addressed by either of the first two trips to RSC. I can only conclude that Rolex SA has not found a “fix” yet. More importantly, any “experimental”solutions may only prolong the time line to an undetermined length. Just as an example, I purchased a day-date several years back that had not been serviced since sold new in 1978. It was exhibiting -0.5 seconds/ day average with barely any variance among positions. Now that is an impressive movement (ref. 3055). Most of my previous 31xx were just as reliable.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[TswaneNguni]

Originally Posted by sevykor

...and that is precisely why I needed to let it go. It was like a ticking service expenditure time bomb. If it was just a lubrication issue, I believe it would have been addressed by either of the first two trips to RSC. I can only conclude that Rolex SA has not found a “fix” yet. More importantly, any “experimental”solutions may only prolong the time line to an undetermined length. Just as an example, I purchased a day-date several years back that had not been serviced since sold new in 1978. It was exhibiting -0.5 seconds/ day average with barely any variance among positions. Now that is an impressive movement (ref. 3055). Most of my previous 31xx were just as reliable.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

None of my 31XXs have ever seen RSC.Oldest 2007.

[Mystro]

Originally Posted by TswaneNguni

None of my 31XXs have ever seen RSC.Oldest 2007.

I have to chime in and also report my old Bluesy was on a winder or on my wrist non stop for over 15 years keeping the same +4 seconds a day the entire time. The movement ran continuously for 15 years without any sign of change. I sent it in for its first routine service at the 15 year mark even though it was still keeping a +4 second a day. It required no additional parts than the routine service. Some say I was really pushing my luck but my watchmaker said the movement looked great inside when he opened it up. This was well documented on the forum and my own empirical data. Rolex makes a hell of a movement.

[DramaTurtle]

My 2010 16570 with 3186 keeps perfect time and has never been opened. These seem to be big shoes for the 32xx movements to fill.

[brandrea]

Originally Posted by Mystro

... Rolex “makes” a hell of a movement.

“Made” based on this and other similar posts. Sorry, couldn’t resist

[Mystro]

Originally Posted by brandrea

“Made” based on this and other similar posts. Sorry, couldn’t resist

Yea, yea...Cheap shot. Remember the current technical and high end movements from Rolex like the cal. 4161 and 9001 are rock solid. Now you have to have some faith in Rolex if they can design a reliable masterpiece movement like these, certainly a basic by comparison movement like the 32 series should be easily sorted out.

[shipitfresh]

Originally Posted by BLNR Nairobi

Three questions:
1) Are there people with 32xx movements who have not had issues?
2) If so, how long have you had those movements for (and if you may, what references are they)?
3) Why would it be so difficult for Rolex to fix whatever the issue might be?

Bought a DJ41 from an AD a little over a year ago. Accuracy was great (+1sec every 2-3 days or more). After a few months it went whacko and started losing 30-40 seconds per day. My AD has an ASC and they adjusted it back to the previous accuracy. It's been fine since...

[georgekart]

Originally Posted by saxo3

You have a timegrapher and can do such tests?

Somebody who wears his watch permanently (day and night) will constantly "wind" it, hence a drop in amplitude will be observed much later.

Now that you mentioned this, I may have an issue with my DJ41. I wear it as a daily and usually if I put it down I don't pick it up before the power reserve completely ran out. So it always runs really well. Recently I have had a situation where I put it down for 2 days, then wore it and it was a few(6-7) minutes off. I figured I might have picked up a watch and forgot to check whether it was running or whatever, then I wore it for a week without taking it off and it was running great. Now I am thinking it might be the issue presenting since it is hard to notice while it is running well while it is being worn daily. I don't have a timegrapher, but I will try setting the time on it now, putting it away for 2 days and then winding it, wearing it for the day, and putting it away for 2 more day and putting it away. Let's see how this goes. Maybe my DJ does have the issue.

[Dirt]

Originally Posted by georgekart

Now that you mentioned this, I may have an issue with my DJ41. I wear it as a daily and usually if I put it down I don't pick it up before the power reserve completely ran out. So it always runs really well. Recently I have had a situation where I put it down for 2 days, then wore it and it was a few(6-7) minutes off. I figured I might have picked up a watch and forgot to check whether it was running or whatever, then I wore it for a week without taking it off and it was running great. Now I am thinking it might be the issue presenting since it is hard to notice while it is running well while it is being worn daily. I don't have a timegrapher, but I will try setting the time on it now, putting it away for 2 days and then winding it, wearing it for the day, and putting it away for 2 more day and putting it away. Let's see how this goes. Maybe my DJ does have the issue.

I'm not following you.
But it seems as though you're looking for a problem.
I urge you to simply keep the watch fully wound and wear it whilst checking the timekeeping. Do this after allowing it to run down and completely stop

[saxo3]

Originally Posted by georgekart

Now that you mentioned this, I may have an issue with my DJ41. I wear it as a daily and usually if I put it down I don't pick it up before the power reserve completely ran out. So it always runs really well. Recently I have had a situation where I put it down for 2 days, then wore it and it was a few(6-7) minutes off. I figured I might have picked up a watch and forgot to check whether it was running or whatever, then I wore it for a week without taking it off and it was running great. Now I am thinking it might be the issue presenting since it is hard to notice while it is running well while it is being worn daily. I don't have a timegrapher, but I will try setting the time on it now, putting it away for 2 days and then winding it, wearing it for the day, and putting it away for 2 more day and putting it away. Let's see how this goes. Maybe my DJ does have the issue.

Interesting, I encourage to do systematic tests and document data taken with your 3235 caliber. When did you buy this watch?

If you have no timegrapher but are anyhow interested technically, you could get the "Watch Tuner Timegrapher App". A bit tricky to use, but it works to get an idea about rates, amplitudes, and beat errors.

You can see that "the audience" is split here