Navy Seal Combat Worn 16613 Bluesy TT Sub ... Advice Needed

[TheGuvna]

Originally Posted by wclowe

As a former Army infantry officer who trained with SEALs and Special Forces operators I can say with certainty that the story isn’t true.

Like most professional soldiers, in the field I wore a cheap, reliable, black digital watch (Casio G-Shock) with a black strap because it was affordable, I wouldn’t mind if it was damaged, and most important: it wouldn’t give away my position to an enemy.

If the seller actually did serve as an operator then it’s most likely this watch was for garrison use only.

My two cents...


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This is 100% true. We got issued watches for diving/jumping/fitness and they were Garmins, G shocks and my favorite, Suunto. (you can see two of those in my "all your watches in one photo" post.)

Plenty of SEALs have Rolexes, but I never saw one wear them on deployment. I wore one of my issued watches or my Hamilton Field Khaki Mechanical personally.

[DougFNJ]

Just going to throw this out there, first of all some entertaining posts cracking me up here, especially Justice League.

Thank you to the members posting here of their service. I appreciate you!!


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[Sgooter]

The intro to this saga reminded me of a crusty old USAF major in my squadron (they all seemed old to me back then) who would forever use the same classic pick-up line when flying commercial and sitting next a nice looking gal: he would maintain silence and composure and look straight ahead until reaching cruising altitude, then he'd slowly turn to face her and sadly say: "I was once a POW, but I don't want to talk about it." I always felt he'd have more success if he wore a GMT.

[11b1p]

Originally Posted by TheGuvna

This is 100% true. We got issued watches for diving/jumping/fitness and they were Garmins, G shocks and my favorite, Suunto. (you can see two of those in my "all your watches in one photo" post.)

Plenty of SEALs have Rolexes, but I never saw one wear them on deployment. I wore one of my issued watches or my Hamilton Field Khaki Mechanical personally.

I was given a Suunto core and the buttons got stuck and the bezel fell off. Looked cool as hell while I had it though.

I only take Timex or Casio to the field now.

[MikeMWatchFan]

If I have Rolex replace the dial will it actually be visible as a service dial / distinguishable at all from an original dial? In terms of resale, do Rolex watches really take a dive in value if they have a service dial vs original for the 2000+ era of watches?

[Crazy Lugs]

I thought it hogwash just like the rest of you guys, but sounds like it was a legit story after all. Nice sleuthing work OP!

More precedent for recent combat use of a five digit piece:

https://www.craftandtailored.com/pro...ary-provenance

[interestedwatcher]

Originally Posted by MikeMWatchFan

Update!!!


Talked to Don shipley on the phone.

He comfirmed the owner was a SEAL and that he was one of Dons instructors in BUDS

He said he hated the guy and the story is likely oversold / made more extreme but he again confirmed he was a SEAL and provided that in writing to me as well.

haha good result. There you go, it takes all types.

[TheGuvna]

Originally Posted by 11b1p

I was given a Suunto core and the buttons got stuck and the bezel fell off. Looked cool as hell while I had it though.

I only take Timex or Casio to the field now.

I've had my Suunto core since 2008 and it still going great, battery life is a lot shorter but i mostly wore the G shock anyways on target

[Rebel]

I'm an old Army/Army Reserve Field Artillery guy. This has been of the best reads in a while on TRF. OP, glad Don was able to confirm the seller was a SEAL to ease your mind (watch worn in combat or not). I trust you are able to repair the watch to your liking and wear it in good health.

"Keep your head down and your powder dry!"

[interestedwatcher]

Originally Posted by Crazy Lugs

I thought it hogwash just like the rest of you guys, but sounds like it was a legit story after all. Nice sleuthing work OP!

More precedent for recent combat use of a five digit piece:

https://www.craftandtailored.com/pro...ary-provenance

Nice - I'd guess maybe 0.01 percent of deployed people do it. I don't really see an issue with wearing a Rolex around the FOB or where ever, but out and about it's gotta be a g shock or a suunto surely.

[wclowe]

Originally Posted by interestedwatcher

haha good result. There you go, it takes all types.

Good to know.

I wasn’t so much questioning his being a SEAL, it was more about taking that model down range. A little too shiny for most operators!


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[interestedwatcher]

Originally Posted by wclowe

Good to know.

I wasn’t so much questioning his being a SEAL, it was more about taking that model down range. A little too shiny for most operators!


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Traditionally a watch should be covered by a sock or similar to hide the shine.

[clickingdru]

Well this story is wow(ing) me

[TheGuvna]

Originally Posted by MikeMWatchFan

Update!!!


Talked to Don shipley on the phone.

He comfirmed the owner was a SEAL and that he was one of Dons instructors in BUDS

He said he hated the guy and the story is likely oversold / made more extreme but he again confirmed he was a SEAL and provided that in writing to me as well.

Don retired in 2003. His instructor had to have retired before him as Don did 24 years (could have done a max of 26 at his rank). Most instructors are on their third/fourth or even fifth tour which would mean they would have been in at least 10-15 years longer than the guys they are training. The max service an E-9 can do is 30 years (with exceptions in a very few jobs). SEALs went to Afghan in late 2001 and early 2002.

Smells a bit fishy to me still. But don't let a good story get in the way of the facts!

[173rdabn]

BS!!! I was in Special Forces for 10 years and have heard beaucoup BS from wannabes and a---holes. Good grief, think about what you have been told. All secret?? No name?? Can't tell you anything?? A round hit the watch and it's still in one piece and he has his arm?? AAARRRGGG

[MikeMWatchFan]

Originally Posted by TheGuvna

Don retired in 2003. His instructor had to have retired before him as Don did 24 years (could have done a max of 26 at his rank). Most instructors are on their third/fourth or even fifth tour which would mean they would have been in at least 10-15 years longer than the guys they are training. The max service an E-9 can do is 30 years (with exceptions in a very few jobs). SEALs went to Afghan in late 2001 and early 2002.

Smells a bit fishy to me still. But don't let a good story get in the way of the facts!

Yea Don and I talked about that. The seller (also named “Mike”) was only a couple years ahead of him. We think he is about 60 now and likely was in Middle East as a contractor in the early to mid 2000s. I have also been able to verify using a lot of a googling that he is a self employed defense contractor so this lines up. Story was definitely exaggerated regarding watch being in combat but I do believe Don that he knows this person and that he indeed was a SEAL

[MikeMWatchFan]

Originally Posted by 173rdabn

BS!!! I was in Special Forces for 10 years and have heard beaucoup BS from wannabes and a---holes. Good grief, think about what you have been told. All secret?? No name?? Can't tell you anything?? A round hit the watch and it's still in one piece and he has his arm?? AAARRRGGG

He claimed the round hit him and during that incident the watch crystal broke.. sounds like he just fell and probably hit the watch on a rock.

[TheVTCGuy]

Originally Posted by 173rdabn

BS!!! I was in Special Forces for 10 years and have heard beaucoup BS from wannabes and a---holes. Good grief, think about what you have been told. All secret?? No name?? Can't tell you anything?? A round hit the watch and it's still in one piece and he has his arm?? AAARRRGGG

Uhm... yeah.... yeah, sure.

To be clear, this gentleman may very well have been a SEAL, and have purchased the watch and worn it around base or in the States, but in the field on covert combat missions???? No, sorry, don’t believe it. And this about a round hitting him in the arm and breaking the crystal? NOPE, sorry, but I definitely wave the BS flag. Those of us that have served in combat, (I admit, I was not a ground pounder but an aviator) have the right to call BS on this story, I do.

[jeffgo888]

Being a seller..i didnt see the need to include a NavY SEAL story to sell a desirable piece anyways. I have always admired the Seals ( specially the Valor movie) and im glad the story worked out. The bravery of the military is to be admired and respected and im glad that it was not abused or mocked in this story adnd more glad the Rolex was part of the life..

[herefortheattachment]

Originally Posted by wclowe

As a former Army infantry officer who trained with SEALs and Special Forces operators I can say with certainty that the story isn’t true.

Like most professional soldiers, in the field I wore a cheap, reliable, black digital watch (Casio G-Shock) with a black strap because it was affordable, I wouldn’t mind if it was damaged, and most important: it wouldn’t give away my position to an enemy.

If the seller actually did serve as an operator then it’s most likely this watch was for garrison use only.

My two cents...


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The story is suspicious, doubly so being a flashy Sub, but it’s apparently not unheard of for SF to wear Rolex in the field, even in the last 15 years.

Shawn Ryan, former Navy SEAL and founder of Vigilance Elite, said he always wore a Rolex when deployed because it was an item everyone in the world recognizes as expensive and is a great bartering tool.

In a pinch and need a car from a local in a war zone? Lost your kit in the jump and have no money? No problem, there’s a $7,000 Rolex on your wrist. Trade for beater car and you’re on your way.

https://youtube.com/watch?v=Pk1TxOUJmVI

[TheVTCGuy]

Originally Posted by herefortheattachment

Shawn Ryan, former Navy SEAL and founder of Vigilance Elite, said he always wore a Rolex when deployed because it was an item everyone in the world recognizes as expensive and is a great bartering tool.

In a pinch and need a car from a local in a war zone? Lost your kit in the jump and have no money? No problem, there’s a $7,000 Rolex on your wrist. Trade for beater car and you’re on your way.

https://youtube.com/watch?v=Pk1TxOUJmVI

This, actually does make some sense. But there is a difference being in a foreign city or town where you can barter with a civilian for their car or whatever, and on a covert mission (where no one is supposed to know you are there). And don’t say you could barter it for your life. I would think on the types of missions Special Ops did, if the enemy caught you they would just kill you, then take your watch.

[GradyPhilpott]

Marines have an old saying:

The difference between a fairy tale and a sea (war) story is that a fairy tale starts with "Once upon a time" and a sea story begins with "This ain't no BS."

[r_afficionado]

Originally Posted by MikeMWatchFan

Update!!!


Talked to Don shipley on the phone.

He comfirmed the owner was a SEAL and that he was one of Dons instructors in BUDS

He said he hated the guy and the story is likely oversold / made more extreme but he again confirmed he was a SEAL and provided that in writing to me as well.

If you can ask the guy to write down as many stories as he can remember of using the watch in the field. Ask if he can include pics. Get him to put pen to paper and you might have an awesome watch with good provenance to sell at a premium in say 10 years... maybe by then seller is ok with his name being shown openly and open to verification by auction houses. If a guy wrestling an octopus could sell his explorer for 128k a Navy Seal Blusey used on active missions and taken a ricochet of an AK47 round to the Bluesy should bring in some good coin... keep the dial hands etc as is with the story that goes along with it. If you do decide to "fix it" send to RolliWorks or other great watchmaker that can source the time period correct original new dial, hands, bezel insert , bezel ring if needed and sends back all original parts that you put away with the story, if when time comes to sell the watch with Navy Seal combat provenance then you put the original stuff back on for the sale. Congrats.
Based on bullet trajectory and impact it is possible that an AK47 round could ricochet off the watch as the hand was moving upward colliding with body of projectile causing minimal impact to the watch and thus changing bullet trajectory where bullet with reduced spin from previous impact would graze subjects neck. Likely maybe not but possible absolutely.

On the other hand the story could be BS... in the end it is a verified warrior Navy Seal's word against who ever wants to go up and call the man a liar. I would take the (verified) Navy Seals Word over anyone else calling the man a liar. This man fought for our nation and I just can't call verified service man a liar without looking at the man face to face... many take the easy shot behind the comfort of keyboard.

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[Crunchie]

If you’re struggling for the cost of that service, I know a guy who’s selling some magic beans.

Just send me $10,000 and I’ll tell you where they’re buried.

[chieftd]

Glad to hear you were able to talk to Don Shipley. Good luck with the watch.

Cheers

[TheVTCGuy]

Originally Posted by r_afficionado

If you can ask the guy to write down as many stories as he can remember of using the watch in the field. Ask if he can include pics. Get him to put pen to paper and you might have an awesome watch with good provenance to sell at a premium in say 10 years... maybe by then seller is ok with his name being shown openly and open to verification by auction houses. If a guy wrestling an octopus could sell his explorer for 128k a Navy Seal Blusey used on active missions and taken a ricochet of an AK47 round to the Bluesy should bring in some good coin... keep the dial hands etc as is with the story that goes along with it. If you do decide to "fix it" send to RolliWorks or other great watchmaker that can source the time period correct original new dial, hands, bezel insert , bezel ring if needed and sends back all original parts that you put away with the story, if when time comes to sell the watch with Navy Seal combat provenance then you put the original stuff back on for the sale. Congrats.
Based on bullet trajectory and impact it is possible that an AK47 round could ricochet off the watch as the hand was moving upward colliding with body of projectile causing minimal impact to the watch and thus changing bullet trajectory where bullet with reduced spin from previous impact would graze subjects neck. Likely maybe not but possible absolutely.

On the other hand the story could be BS... in the end it is a verified warrior Navy Seal's word against who ever wants to go up and call the man a liar. I would take the (verified) Navy Seals Word over anyone else calling the man a liar. This man fought for our nation and I just can't call verified service man a liar without looking at the man face to face... many take the easy shot behind the comfort of keyboard.

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I flew 67 sorties (missions) over Iraq during Desert Storm. So I believe I am entitled to take one “easy shot behind the....”

[watchmainspring]

Originally Posted by Fleetlord

Honestly it's just a 5digit Bluesy with a damaged dial.

Change it out if it bugs you

Looks like a decent 16613. So many of these are terribly polished. I don't think it's even worth changing the dial.

[Harry-57]

If you like the damaged dial you can keep the damaged dial. If you do not like it you can have it changed.

The back story doesn't matter. It's not your back story. Your back story is that you bought a second hand watch with a damaged dial.

Personally I wouldn't have bought something which had been allegedly struck by munitions. But if you like it, that's all that matters.

[fskywalker]

Originally Posted by walkman2727

DO NOT TRUST EBAY AUTHENTICATION! Always send your Rolex to Rolex to authenticate!!

Smart thing to do!


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[MikeMWatchFan]

Hey All

I think I’m going to keep the watch rather than return it. I only paid $10K for it and it seems a full set unpolished 16613 with solid end links is worth around $12.5K. So even if I put $1,500 into it with a Rolex overhaul (no polish) and Rolex replaced dial, I should still be in it for less than it’s worth. Clearly the story adds pretty much nothing at this point so turning my attention to just condition of the watch and if I want to keep it as an investment piece to enjoy for a few years.

Appreciate everyone’s advice.