5513 Gilt/Matte confusion

[FrenchBigCrown]

Hi all,

Hope everyone is safe and well.

I hope someone can help me here - I did check the 5513mattedial site, but I still can't find the answer.

I see 'Meters First' 5513s advertised as 'gilt dials' - like this one for example:



https://www.collection-heure.be/en/w...red-black-gilt

But they just look like 'matte' dials to me, with white 'print' on the dial.

Whereas, something like this, is what I'd think of as a 'gilt' dial:



https://www.chrono24.com/rolex/subma...id14980123.htm

Am I missing something? Or is the first one 'mis-described'?

Thanks in advance.

[shiftf7]

the one posted as gilt dial, is in fact a gilt dial "classic coronet tritium " from late 1963 till late 1964, your second picture is a gilt bart simpson dial, wich followed the classic coronet from 1964/65, till the fist matte dials appeared in 1966

[shiftf7]

the classic coronet tritium dial is the only dial you can find in both a PCG (pointed crown guards) 5513 (late 1963) as wel in a rounded crownguard 5513from 1964

[FrenchBigCrown]

Thanks shiftf7 - so the top one is in fact 'gilt' and worth that sort of money?

It appears to be a late 1965 5513.

Thanks for your help.

[Kingface66]

Not sure what’s confusing you. The top one clearly has gilt (gold) print. Maybe not as yellowed in color as the one below. But compare it to a matte dial where the print is clearly white, and the dial is matte, and not glossy.

[shiftf7]

Originally Posted by FrenchBigCrown

Thanks shiftf7 - so the top one is in fact 'gilt' and worth that sort of money?

It appears to be a late 1965 5513.

Thanks for your help.

The classic coronet is consitent with the serial number 1.2M the Bart simpson appeared around 1.4M
price is reasonable, as these watches are becoming very rare.
Only thing you can hassle about is the insert, its a service insert, I would prefer a period correct "long 5" mk2 insert that will put you back around 2,5/3K

Also check the date code on the bracelet clasp, best is if its the same date as the watch..

[Dan S]

Maybe what is confusing you is that the printing is gilt, not the dial. That's a bit of a misnomer. As mentioned, the insert on the first one is a replacement.

[FrenchBigCrown]

Originally Posted by Kingface66

Not sure what’s confusing you. The top one clearly has gilt (gold) print. Maybe not as yellowed in color as the one below. But compare it to a matte dial where the print is clearly white, and the dial is matte, and not glossy.

The print on the top one is gold? It looks white to these old eyes.

[FrenchBigCrown]

Originally Posted by shiftf7

The classic coronet is consitent with the serial number 1.2M the Bart simpson appeared around 1.4M
price is reasonable, as these watches are becoming very rare.
Only thing you can hassle about is the insert, its a service insert, I would prefer a period correct "long 5" mk2 insert that will put you back around 2,5/3K

Also check the date code on the bracelet clasp, best is if its the same date as the watch..

Originally Posted by Dan S

Maybe what is confusing you is that the printing is gilt, not the dial. That's a bit of a misnomer. As mentioned, the insert on the first one is a replacement.

Thanks guys.

[FrenchBigCrown]

Originally Posted by shiftf7

Only thing you can hassle about is the insert, its a service insert, I would prefer a period correct "long 5" mk2 insert that will put you back around 2,5/3K

Originally Posted by Dan S

As mentioned, the insert on the first one is a replacement.

Thanks again for heads up on the insert - I'm guessing these two of mine are incorrect too?

[FrenchBigCrown]

And... is this a Mk II?

Thanks in advance.

[Kingface66]

Originally Posted by FrenchBigCrown

Thanks again for heads up on the insert - I'm guessing these two of mine are incorrect too?

The one on the right is def incorrect. I’m guessing a service insert was installed at some point.

[Kingface66]

Originally Posted by FrenchBigCrown

The print on the top one is gold? It looks white to these old eyes.

Ha! I have old eyes, too. But compare side by side to a white matte dial and you will see.

[FrenchBigCrown]

Originally Posted by Kingface66

Ha! I have old eyes, too. But compare side by side to a white matte dial and you will see.

No worries. And, thanks.

[FrenchBigCrown]

Originally Posted by Kingface66

The one on the right is def incorrect. I’m guessing a service insert was installed at some point.

Yeah. It was a (relatively) cheap watch with some 'condensation' damage to the dial - but it's the original dial and I quite like it.

I should try and track down a correct insert for it.

[FrenchBigCrown]

While you guys are feeling helpful - which is greatly appreciated - the insert on this 5513 - yes? no?

And the insert I just found in a box here, I guess it is just a 'service' item?

Thanks in advance.

[1665fan]

Yes service insert and the faded inserts looks original to that watch...might be kissing 4 insert which are rare

[shiftf7]

Originally Posted by FrenchBigCrown

While you guys are feeling helpful - which is greatly appreciated - the insert on this 5513 - yes? no?

And the insert I just found in a box here, I guess it is just a 'service' item?

Thanks in advance.

The mk1 insert is incorrect for that watch, the mk1 insert ended at 1963, so this watch should have a mk2 or mk3 insert depending on the serial number.

https://www.watchprosite.com/rolex/r...49983.5769208/

[FrenchBigCrown]

Originally Posted by shiftf7

The mk1 insert is incorrect for that watch, the mk1 insert ended at 1963, so this watch should have a mk2 or mk3 insert depending on the serial number.

https://www.watchprosite.com/rolex/r...49983.5769208/

Thanks fellah.

And the gilt 5513 on the NATO strap with service insert (above ^) - would the Mk1/fat bezel work for that? Or should it be a Mk2?

Really appreciated.

[FrenchBigCrown]

Originally Posted by FrenchBigCrown

And... is this a Mk II?

Thanks in advance.

Guys?

[shiftf7]

The gilt on the NATO should have a mk2, this is my 63 gilt on a NATO.
PCG, Gilt, 24-700 crown

[shiftf7]

Originally Posted by FrenchBigCrown

And... is this a Mk II?

Thanks in advance.

Nope, mk3

[FrenchBigCrown]

Originally Posted by shiftf7

Nope, mk3

Bless ya!

[FrenchBigCrown]

Originally Posted by shiftf7

The gilt on the NATO should have a mk2, this is my 63 gilt on a NATO.
PCG, Gilt, 24-700 crown

Thank you.

(Nice watch.)

[FrenchBigCrown]

Ouch!

https://www.chrono24.fr/rolex/lunett...id11121928.htm

[shiftf7]

Originally Posted by FrenchBigCrown

Ouch!

https://www.chrono24.fr/rolex/lunett...id11121928.htm

Just keep looking, there are some on eBay also, got mine a few weeks ago for 2700€ , a lot of € but it’s worth it to have the watch all correct.

[FrenchBigCrown]

Originally Posted by shiftf7

Just keep looking, there are some on eBay also, got mine a few weeks ago for 2700€ , a lot of € but it’s worth it to have the watch all correct.

I'll keep looking.

I can only see MK3s on Ebay right now.

Thanks again for all your help. REALLY appreciated.

[swaini3]

Originally Posted by FrenchBigCrown

I'll keep looking.

I can only see MK3s on Ebay right now.

Thanks again for all your help. REALLY appreciated.

I have 1 if you are interested. PM sent.

[FrenchBigCrown]

Originally Posted by swaini3

I have 1 if you are interested. PM sent.

Back at you.

[FrenchBigCrown]

Thanks again shift7 - really appreciated.

I made a start...