The Rolex Forums   The Rolex Watch

ROLEXROLEXROLEXROLEXROLEXROLEXROLEXROLEXROLEXROLEXROLEXROLEX


Go Back   Rolex Forums - Rolex Watch Forum > Classifieds > WatchOut!!!

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 7 October 2017, 01:28 AM   #61
yxc145
"TRF" Member
 
yxc145's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2017
Real Name: David
Location: Chicago
Watch: SkyD,JC, BLNR, Ex2
Posts: 1,578
One question, OP.
Even if you got a genuine Rolex watch, how do you know if the watch wasn't stolen? When a young kid coming up with a story like that trying to sell an expensive watch, makes me suspect where the watch come from or is fake.
yxc145 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 16 November 2017, 12:39 AM   #62
vincenzowl
"TRF" Member
 
vincenzowl's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2017
Real Name: Vince
Location: Maryland
Watch: 116400GV
Posts: 270
Any resolution to this? The movement pics from OP aren’t exactly the sharpest, so what are the tells that are so obvious to people that this is fake?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
vincenzowl is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 16 November 2017, 02:20 AM   #63
vincenzowl
"TRF" Member
 
vincenzowl's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2017
Real Name: Vince
Location: Maryland
Watch: 116400GV
Posts: 270
Any resolution to this?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
vincenzowl is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 16 November 2017, 10:12 AM   #64
vincenzowl
"TRF" Member
 
vincenzowl's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2017
Real Name: Vince
Location: Maryland
Watch: 116400GV
Posts: 270
Disregard, double post.
vincenzowl is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 5 January 2018, 10:31 AM   #65
007timer
"TRF" Member
 
007timer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2017
Location: US
Watch: BLNR
Posts: 1,383
Quote:
Originally Posted by yxc145 View Post
One question, OP.
Even if you got a genuine Rolex watch, how do you know if the watch wasn't stolen? When a young kid coming up with a story like that trying to sell an expensive watch, makes me suspect where the watch come from or is fake.
There is never any guarantee that the watch is or is not stolen. The story he gave is his dad bought it from the original owner and now wants it gone. There was a bill of sale that I had him sign to protect against that possible outcome. But I did not check ID which I should have.
007timer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 5 January 2018, 10:33 AM   #66
007timer
"TRF" Member
 
007timer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2017
Location: US
Watch: BLNR
Posts: 1,383
Quote:
Originally Posted by vincenzowl View Post
Any resolution to this?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
I am still waiting. My case is not considered a "priority" considering they have other cases they are working on.
007timer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 5 January 2018, 10:38 AM   #67
mr.president1
"TRF" Member
 
mr.president1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: Ohio,UnitedStates
Watch: ROLEX OMEGA
Posts: 1,458
Why take it to a watch maker. Just take it and have it authenticated by a rolex watchmaker at an AD. I would believe a Rolex AD watchmaker with 5 years experience than someone who isn’t with 15 years IMHO
__________________

ROLEX & OMEGA
mr.president1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 5 January 2018, 10:55 AM   #68
007timer
"TRF" Member
 
007timer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2017
Location: US
Watch: BLNR
Posts: 1,383
Quote:
Originally Posted by mr.president1 View Post
Why take it to a watch maker. Just take it and have it authenticated by a rolex watchmaker at an AD. I would believe a Rolex AD watchmaker with 5 years experience than someone who isn’t with 15 years IMHO
This watch maker services Rolex for three AD's in the area. Its not some random guy changing watch batteries at a kiosk at the mall. Why not take it there?

Also, I have on multiple occasions walked into Rolex AD and they DO NOT offer any type of authentication services. at least no where in Southern California. No one wants the liability and they will not open the watch for that same reason.
007timer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 5 January 2018, 10:58 AM   #69
dmac001
"TRF" Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2017
Location: California
Watch: Yacht-Master
Posts: 64
Quote:
Originally Posted by offrdmania View Post
A tell tale sign on these fake movements is the red gear wheels. The teeth never hold the red on the fakes since the gears are just painted and not Teflon coated like the real ones.
Just to compare - you can see the teeth color on the right look worn while the ones on the left are solid! Nice insight.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg pink-gear-compare.jpg (105.5 KB, 270 views)
dmac001 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 5 January 2018, 11:07 AM   #70
dmac001
"TRF" Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2017
Location: California
Watch: Yacht-Master
Posts: 64
Continuing to check markings -- pretty obvious when you compare.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg model-compare.jpg (58.4 KB, 265 views)
dmac001 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 5 January 2018, 11:17 AM   #71
dmac001
"TRF" Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2017
Location: California
Watch: Yacht-Master
Posts: 64
And the rehaut -- interesting, the 'X' and 'E' are noticeably different sizes and font. The Rolex 'E' is square while the other is rounded. The Rolex 'X' is narrower. Also different spacing.

I guess if you stare at these enough, you start to notice the small subtle details.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg rehaut.jpg (77.5 KB, 270 views)
dmac001 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 5 January 2018, 11:41 AM   #72
run23
"TRF" Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2017
Location: Brooklyn
Posts: 590
Quick hand switch. Beware!

Some people on this thread are a bit full of themselves. Of course in hindsight the deal seems fishy, but the OP did almost everything right (taking to to his guy to get authenticated, asking for a bill of sale), but still got scammed because some people are terrible. Everybody thinks they’ll never the the one the gets scammed because they are too street smart or whatever, but I’ve seen it happen to enough people to not be too sure it couldn’t happen to me. Like it would have almost seemed rude and paranoid if I were in the OP’s place to insist that I see the watch at all times— that’s how these scammers operate. Obviously in the future that’s a precaution I’d take.

I’ve bought expensive camera equipment face-to-face and took what I thought was every precaution, and while I was never scammed, if someone were determined enough I could have been (will take lessons from this post); and in hindsight of course I would have ‘seen’ all the red flags (the guy had a dirty sweatshirt, was too young to have a $4,500 camera or whatever).
run23 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 5 January 2018, 11:47 AM   #73
LagunaSeca
"TRF" Member
 
LagunaSeca's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2016
Real Name: Isaac
Location: Orange County, CA
Watch: 126600
Posts: 43
Font on the bezel seems thinner.. first thing I noticed.
LagunaSeca is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 5 January 2018, 12:09 PM   #74
007timer
"TRF" Member
 
007timer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2017
Location: US
Watch: BLNR
Posts: 1,383
Icon14

Quote:
Originally Posted by run23 View Post
Some people on this thread are a bit full of themselves. Of course in hindsight the deal seems fishy, but the OP did almost everything right (taking to to his guy to get authenticated, asking for a bill of sale), but still got scammed because some people are terrible. Everybody thinks they’ll never the the one the gets scammed because they are too street smart or whatever, but I’ve seen it happen to enough people to not be too sure it couldn’t happen to me. Like it would have almost seemed rude and paranoid if I were in the OP’s place to insist that I see the watch at all times— that’s how these scammers operate. Obviously in the future that’s a precaution I’d take.

I’ve bought expensive camera equipment face-to-face and took what I thought was every precaution, and while I was never scammed, if someone were determined enough I could have been (will take lessons from this post); and in hindsight of course I would have ‘seen’ all the red flags (the guy had a dirty sweatshirt, was too young to have a $4,500 camera or whatever).
007timer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 5 January 2018, 12:12 PM   #75
gbpritf
"TRF" Member
 
gbpritf's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2014
Location: PNW
Watch: ing Netflix
Posts: 173
Wow what a crazy story! Tragic because I can imagine sitting at home, admiring my watch, and my brain telling me its authentic because I'd verified it. And yet it wasn't. That sucks OP!! I also wonder if I might've noticed once I got the watch home. For myself, part of enjoying a new watch is taking out my loupe and admiring the watch under magnification. I think I would've been confused had I noticed imperfections that I could've sworn weren't there before.

Also, I've heard of these more expensive replicas. They're generally a couple grand and supposedly take the copying to the next level. As opposed to the street stuff one might find for a hundred bucks.

Sorry to hear OP! Glad they found the kid!
__________________
Ars Longa, Vita Brevis
gbpritf is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 5 January 2018, 03:29 PM   #76
BigBoss722
"TRF" Member
 
BigBoss722's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2017
Location: Pittsburgh
Watch: 16610T, 126613
Posts: 53
What a nightmare!
BigBoss722 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 5 January 2018, 06:45 PM   #77
oldman2005
"TRF" Member
 
oldman2005's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: norcal
Posts: 3,031
Wow, I learned a new thing today: Fake Rolex movement!

By any chance the watchmaker has mistakenly authenticated this watch as real one at the beginning?
oldman2005 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 5 January 2018, 07:53 PM   #78
watchluvr
Banned
 
Join Date: May 2017
Real Name: Mark's Watches
Location: Denver, CO
Watch: Rolex President
Posts: 52
The first most obvious thing with the counterfeit fake movements is that they don't have free sprung balances and they have two levers instead of one. We saved a friend about $30,000 in 4 separate possible transactions... He texts us photos and we always want to see the movement... two on Deep-Seas with this fake movement and two on Subs with this fake movement. Also one with a 2824/2836 ETA mvmt... Always look at the balance wheel to be sure it is a free sprung balance. Once you get that aspect down, you will quickly be able to run away from the transaction. By the way, the friend almost bought the Deep Sea from a guy in Fort Collins. Then about a month later, he went up to Fort Collins to a pawn shop to buy a Deep Sea... same problem. Maybe the pawn shop got taken by the original seller. Unless watchmakers are trained to look at the balance, a cursory glance might cause them to believe the movement is genuine. I guess many pawn shops are getting burned by these new fake movements by not being educated about what to look for. Look at the balance first.
watchluvr is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 5 January 2018, 08:44 PM   #79
spoilsofwar01
"TRF" Member
 
spoilsofwar01's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2017
Real Name: "H"
Location: England
Watch: ing Rainclouds
Posts: 1,437
Cctv

Quote:
Originally Posted by 007timer View Post
This is one of my first posts on this forum. Consider this to be public service announcement.

A little background. I have owned a few Rolex, Omega, Breitling and other watches over the years. I am familiar with the new and second hand markets.

In January of this year, I saw an ad on Craigslist for a Rolex Submariner 116610LN. The ad stated that it was a 2015 watch with no box & papers. After making contact with the seller I agreed on a price of $5,000. However a condition of my purchase is to have the watch inspected by a Rolex watchmaker that has over 15 years of servicing Rolex watches.

The kid showed up with the watch "on belay of his dad". Handed the watch to the watchmaker and he inspected every aspect of the watch. Clasp, links, bracelet, bezel, case, and opened the back and inspected the gears and movement. EVERYTHING checked out 100%. To the extent that my watch maker said "if you don't end up buying it, I will" absolutely good clean watch with no issues whatsoever.

The seller claimed that his Dad really wanted a little more money that what we agreed on and wanted to call him to make sure it's ok. He made the call and said. Ok. He got paid, I got the watch and I wore for 9 months. Fast forward to last week. I had an opportunity to buy a PP Nautilus Moonphase watch. Went to my jeweler to authenticate when he asked me about my Sub. I gaveit to him for a quick cleaning while I was there, that's when he came back saying "this watch is off" it looks right but something is not quiet right. Asked if the watch ever left my possession or if anyone serviced it, the answer was no. He asked if he can open the watch and that's when we discovered that I had been taken. Back in January, when the watch maker handed the watch back on the counter, he switched the watch with a fake one. Not having any reason to re-check my watch it went unnoticed for 9 whole months. Again, I have 4 other Rolex watches at home and I never suspected it. It's a $1,250 fake watch. Even the movement is an exact copy. The watch maker showed it to two other guys who have less experience and at first glance they both said yes it's real until they started to notice things like the quality of the finish on the movement and the top of the screws. Very subtle and easy to miss. All the markings were correct, stamps and numbers are all present. This is very scary that they are getting this good at faking these watches. I took every precaution I can and the fact that he put his hands on it on the counter in front of cost me the losses.

Advice. If you buy used, follow all the precautions. But from now on, if anyone touches the watch after it's been authenticated, have it checked again.

Good luck and be careful out there.

Hello and thank you for the heads up in regards to what has happened to you, Ive read most of what others have said and the following has been going around in my head...........

Has the Watch Maker got any CCTV, did you check the sellers I.D. and ask for some proof of ownership? prior to any purchase I always check with Rolex the serial number, some numbers are well know, and finally receipts, I draw one up as a disclaimer just in case its an insurance scam and would ask for proof of address and would photograph his drivers licence...... I understand that some of this can be falsified however it offers up a little damage limitation in the event of something going wrong and would hopefully put of a scammer.
spoilsofwar01 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 6 January 2018, 05:11 AM   #80
007timer
"TRF" Member
 
007timer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2017
Location: US
Watch: BLNR
Posts: 1,383
Quote:
Originally Posted by gbpritf View Post
Wow what a crazy story! Tragic because I can imagine sitting at home, admiring my watch, and my brain telling me its authentic because I'd verified it. And yet it wasn't. That sucks OP!! I also wonder if I might've noticed once I got the watch home. For myself, part of enjoying a new watch is taking out my loupe and admiring the watch under magnification. I think I would've been confused had I noticed imperfections that I could've sworn weren't there before.

Also, I've heard of these more expensive replicas. They're generally a couple grand and supposedly take the copying to the next level. As opposed to the street stuff one might find for a hundred bucks.

Sorry to hear OP! Glad they found the kid!
Indeed it was tragic. I did not wear it everyday as I would rotate between a few others. Some of these copies are very expensive and they even fooled AD's in the past (according to an investigator in Orange that handled a similar case with the OWNER of a Rolex AD)The worst part is waiting for the Sheriff Department to act.
007timer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 6 January 2018, 05:12 AM   #81
007timer
"TRF" Member
 
007timer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2017
Location: US
Watch: BLNR
Posts: 1,383
Quote:
Originally Posted by oldman2005 View Post
Wow, I learned a new thing today: Fake Rolex movement!

By any chance the watchmaker has mistakenly authenticated this watch as real one at the beginning?
Not likely. When he touched the fake one, he instantly said "this is not the watch you bought"
007timer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 6 January 2018, 05:15 AM   #82
007timer
"TRF" Member
 
007timer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2017
Location: US
Watch: BLNR
Posts: 1,383
Quote:
Originally Posted by watchluvr View Post
The first most obvious thing with the counterfeit fake movements is that they don't have free sprung balances and they have two levers instead of one. We saved a friend about $30,000 in 4 separate possible transactions... He texts us photos and we always want to see the movement... two on Deep-Seas with this fake movement and two on Subs with this fake movement. Also one with a 2824/2836 ETA mvmt... Always look at the balance wheel to be sure it is a free sprung balance. Once you get that aspect down, you will quickly be able to run away from the transaction. By the way, the friend almost bought the Deep Sea from a guy in Fort Collins. Then about a month later, he went up to Fort Collins to a pawn shop to buy a Deep Sea... same problem. Maybe the pawn shop got taken by the original seller. Unless watchmakers are trained to look at the balance, a cursory glance might cause them to believe the movement is genuine. I guess many pawn shops are getting burned by these new fake movements by not being educated about what to look for. Look at the balance first.
Good work saving people from potential scams. It is disturbing as to how many of these scams are taking place on the daily! you helped avert 4 disasters, imagine how many are missed. Thanks for the feedback.
007timer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 6 January 2018, 05:19 AM   #83
007timer
"TRF" Member
 
007timer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2017
Location: US
Watch: BLNR
Posts: 1,383
Hello and thank you for the heads up in regards to what has happened to you, Ive read most of what others have said and the following has been going around in my head...........

Has the Watch Maker got any CCTV, did you check the sellers I.D. and ask for some proof of ownership? prior to any purchase I always check with Rolex the serial number, some numbers are well know, and finally receipts, I draw one up as a disclaimer just in case its an insurance scam and would ask for proof of address and would photograph his drivers licence...... I understand that some of this can be falsified however it offers up a little damage limitation in the event of something going wrong and would hopefully put of a scammer.[/QUOTE]

Hi there. Yes, he had CCTV. Unfortunately they record on loop and erase the previous recording every 60 days. No luck in retrieving the footage. No ID check. The watch did not have box or papers, no way to verify proof of purchase. With regards to the DL being photographed, I as a seller with legitimate authentic goods would not want to give a picture of my license to a stranger, They can buy an authentic watch from me and then use my ID for identity theft which will cost a ton more damage than a fake watch. Not sure many would be willing to do it.
007timer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 6 January 2018, 05:36 AM   #84
watchluvr
Banned
 
Join Date: May 2017
Real Name: Mark's Watches
Location: Denver, CO
Watch: Rolex President
Posts: 52
Quote:
Originally Posted by 007timer View Post
Good work saving people from potential scams. It is disturbing as to how many of these scams are taking place on the daily! you helped avert 4 disasters, imagine how many are missed. Thanks for the feedback.
watchluvr is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 6 January 2018, 12:26 PM   #85
AK797
2024 Pledge Member
 
AK797's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Real Name: Neil
Location: UK
Watch: ing ships roll in
Posts: 59,066
Quote:
Originally Posted by 007timer View Post
There is never any guarantee that the watch is or is not stolen. The story he gave is his dad bought it from the original owner and now wants it gone. There was a bill of sale that I had him sign to protect against that possible outcome. But I did not check ID which I should have.
There is if you take it to RSC and ask for a repair or polish quote. They will first check if it stolen.
AK797 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 6 January 2018, 01:38 PM   #86
Onikage
"TRF" Member
 
Onikage's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: England
Watch: 16710, 16628
Posts: 7,755
Ouch. An obvious clone. Since the layout is correct the things to really worry about are not so obvious clones where all visible main parts are replaced with real ones, and not so visible parts are finished to a higher more Rolex-like standard. Rolex's control of parts availability means this is unlikely to ever be commonplace but it's still a concern of mine that potentially some a-hole could do it, and not being a watchmaker able to inspect/compare parts I'd be pretty screwed.
Nice to know the police are making progress with the OP, btw.
__________________
GMT II 16710 TRADITIONAL
( D- Serial #)
ROLEXFANBOY P-Club Member #4
Onikage is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 6 January 2018, 07:19 PM   #87
LuminousMaximus
"TRF" Member
 
LuminousMaximus's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: USA
Watch: me hit Huge Lotto
Posts: 6,502
just when you think you have heard everything...!

Sorry for the slight of hand, but thank you for notifying us. It is great that we can enlighten fellow members. So many scams...
__________________
“Every man Dies...
Not Every Man, Really Lives.” – William Wallace -


To really lives means to live your life to the fullest. It means to chase your dreams, take risks, and to love life.
Since everyone’s fate is the same, why not live the best life that you possibly can? In order to really live,you must seize the day.
Live each day as if it's your last and overall just do it! Today is a gift, that’s why it’s called the present...
LuminousMaximus is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 6 January 2018, 09:58 PM   #88
oldman2005
"TRF" Member
 
oldman2005's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: norcal
Posts: 3,031
Can you please share pictures of the real balance and fake one? Thanks!

Quote:
Originally Posted by watchluvr View Post
The first most obvious thing with the counterfeit fake movements is that they don't have free sprung balances and they have two levers instead of one. .
oldman2005 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 6 January 2018, 10:13 PM   #89
dysondiver
"TRF" Member
 
dysondiver's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Real Name: tom
Location: northern ireland
Watch: my fins
Posts: 10,063
Quote:
Originally Posted by southtexas View Post
Which watchmaker authenticated the first time?

Did the original watchmaker switch out the movement during his inspection? Did he just miss the fact that it was a fake?

Or did the kid do a switch while he was on the phone after a real one had been inspected?

I'm confused, but I'm also tired after a long day.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
me too . ill keep reading ,,
ok , kept reading , and im still not seeing how it all happened ,,
dysondiver is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 6 January 2018, 10:29 PM   #90
watchluvr
Banned
 
Join Date: May 2017
Real Name: Mark's Watches
Location: Denver, CO
Watch: Rolex President
Posts: 52
Quote:
Originally Posted by oldman2005 View Post
Can you please share pictures of the real balance and fake one? Thanks!
Here is a picture found online. Look at the balance on the left with one arm coming out. It is genuine. The 2 on the right are I believe the yuki and the angus counterfeit movements. I have not seen a Yuki with the engraving, but the parts are supposedly interchangeable with a real Rolex, so replacing the rotor assembly and the winding bridge would make it look very real... except for the non-freesprung balance.

That is the easiest, fastest way to tell that it is a fake movement. It literally only takes a couple of seconds.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg rolex-3135-balance-vs-2-fakes.jpg (40.0 KB, 123 views)
watchluvr is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Takuya Watches

Bobs Watches

Asset Appeal

My Watch LLC

OCWatches

DavidSW Watches

Coronet


*Banners Of The Month*
This space is provided to horological resources.





Copyright ©2004-2024, The Rolex Forums. All Rights Reserved.

ROLEXROLEXROLEXROLEXROLEXROLEXROLEXROLEXROLEXROLEXROLEXROLEX

Rolex is a registered trademark of ROLEX USA. The Rolex Forums is not affiliated with ROLEX USA in any way.