Looking for guidance on GMT II 16710

[Ascari_2]

Hi everyone.

Quite unexpectedly I came into a possession of a 1989 16710 GMT II that needs a little TLC. As it stands, the watch runs beautifully (within +1 sec/day). However, cosmetically it has the following:

• Case has a few bumps and scrapes
• Cyclops is missing (don't know if it was removed or if a non-cyclops crystal was installed)
• Current crystal has a fair number of hairline scratches
• The bezel insert is showing its age
• The lume in the seconds hand is missing
• The GMT hand is slightly bent sideways

Some of these issues I know I'll be taking care of. Specifically, I am pretty sure I'll be replacing the crystal with one that has a cyclops and I'll be trying to fix or replace the GMT hand. However, the other issues I'm split on. On the one hand I could refinish the case, get a Coke bezel insert, and try to source a replacement tritium seconds hand. On the other hand, I could leave those issues as is and let it be.

Generally speaking, I am very careful with my watches and like them looking as new as possible. So I am leaning more towards getting everything taken care of (and hopefully sourcing a super jubilee to put on it at a later time). But I'd still like to know what other think.

Thanks for the feedback.

[Wedders]

I think the missing cyclops is an advantage I don’t like them anyway.

[AJMarcus]

The bent GMT hand concerns me the most. That’s probably indicative of some rough handling or worse. I’d pass

[DaninFlorida]

if it was me, i would fix those two items (second hand and GMT hand) along with a service of the movement if you dont know the history and enjoy the watch. I personally like a vintage piece looking "vintage"

[kegan]

Nice GMT. Whatever you do don’t allow that awesome insert to end up in an RSC waste basket.

[Ascari_2]

Wedders: I've read a lot of conflicting opinions on this, but ultimately it comes down to personal preference. Having a DJ with the cyclops, I can tell you that I really like their look. So as much as I know some don't like it, I thin I am in the opposite camp.

AJMarcus: The watch is already mine and I am pretty comfortable with what I got for the price that I paid.

DaninFlorida: The movement is in great condition. It was checked over by a trusted watchmaker before I bought it, and as you can see below, it's running with virtually no delay/slowness at an amplitude that is close to 300.

kegan: While the bezel might be rough, I'd never toss it. I just have a thing for a GMT with Coke colors and jubilee bracelet, so I am just looking at the present bezel as an excuse to get what I really want. But with that, I would definitely keep the insert.

[1665fan]

Crownguarda look almost like PCG due to bad polishing, lugs look good though. Nice watch overall. I’d replace the gmt hand with one that doesn’t glow and wear it as is

[chrisnov500]

personally I would very light polishing on case and bracelet, replace GMT hand and second hand. I am not too sure how lumes will match with other og lumed hands and dial but you can try. I too like vintage looking like vintage unless it came unused/brand new condition. Great looking watch and contrats!

[Soarer]

Congrats! I will send it in for a full service at RSC though.

[springer]

Originally Posted by kegan

Nice GMT. Whatever you do don’t allow that awesome insert to end up in an RSC waste basket.

That insert is not correct for his watch. It's a later insert.

[Ascari_2]

Originally Posted by springer

That insert is not correct for his watch. It's a later insert.

All the more reason to get a new one. Mind if I ask how the period correct one differs from what's on the watch now?

[Macnavara]

Looks like the wrong clasp too...from what i can see its very long more like a sub clasp.

The watch is cool but bit of a mishmash for my liking.

[SubMarine]

Bracelet is incorrect for a gmt. Case has been polished. Insert is not original.

[Verdi]

I would give it a service, put the correct glass.
Bezel, I would get a new one from RSC or maybe look for a correct coke/pepsi bezel.

[yons78]

Personally I would send it for service and have everything fixed.

[Tools]

Originally Posted by Ascari_2

All the more reason to get a new one. Mind if I ask how the period correct one differs from what's on the watch now?

Good looking watch.

The 93150 bracelet was an option for the 16710, as was a black insert. Any later service insert is still "correct" even if it is not original.

If the handset is still tritium, I would look for tritium replacements for the bad hands. Otherwise, have the entire hand-set replaced at service with Luminova parts (this is the only RSC option).

When dealing with vintage you need to ask yourself: Am I going to rebuild to period correct with old parts, of am I going to rebuild with functional, correct but modern, service parts.

These are different, but valid, approaches.

[sillo]

Originally Posted by SubMarine

Bracelet is incorrect for a gmt.

16710s/16700s were both offered on the 93150 Sub bracelet from Rolex.

[Ascari_2]

Thanks to everyone for their input.

The watch is with a reputable watchmaker and will be getting some TLC. I've decided to give the case/bracelet a light polish as I prefer a restored look over one with blemishes. I will also try to have the GMT hand straightened and if that doesn't work, I'll have it replaced. I'll also be looking at replacing the second hand. With both hands, I'll either try to source period correct tritium hands or non-illuminating hands since the tritium no longer works on other parts of the watch. New crystal with the cyclops will be going in and so is a new coke bezel insert. I also just purchased a jubilee bracelet that is on its way to Michael Young for restoration. I am just not a fan of the current bracelet on this particular watch and think the jubilee fits it better. Hopefully everything will be completed right around the beginning of 2020.

Really looking forward to giving this watch some wrist time and glad that I was able to come across this deal.

[bayerische]

Case looks amazing with a little scaring. The bent GMT hand is a bit of a confuser, but I wouldn't replace anything on this beauty. Wear it as is.

[Ascari_2]

So after the long wait I am expecting this beauty back on Friday!

[Yaz]

Whoa !
What a change !
Congrats !

[swish77]

Originally Posted by Ascari_2

So after the long wait I am expecting this beauty back on Friday!

Very nice! Which watchmaker did the service/restoration for you?

[Ascari_2]

Thank you. I sent the watch to Chandler at CL Timeworks upon purchasing another watch (a 60s DJ) that he had serviced in the past. The watch was averaging about +1 sec/day on my wrist, which spoke volumes in terms of the quality of service and fine tuning, and his feedback online seemed to be positive. Now I will say I am expecting the watch in my hands on Friday and will be able to gauge the quality in person, but he's been very professional up to now and I expect the final result to be on par with my expectations.

Having said that, I will say that I also have a local watch maker, MJ Watch Services (just google MJ Watch Service in Glenview IL since I can't post links) in the Chicago area that I normally trust all my watches to. I've probably serviced about 15 watches with them over the past year - with about 10 getting full overhauls - and their quality of work if fantastic. Every one of their ChronoScope printouts that I get after completion of service has had the watch averaging 2 sec/day or less. Similarly, their ability to properly refinish a Rolex case is top-notch. I've definitely brought some beaters to them in the past and they were able to make them look properly new. Yes, a polish is a polish and will remove some metal. But that element aside, they are good at what they do.

So here I am now, stuck waiting two more days until the GMT shows up! What makes it al the more exciting is that I picked up this watch with more than a bit of apprehension. It started when I was having my lunch and decided to jump on a local classified board because I had nothing better to do. Scrolling through a bunch of useless junk, I see what looks like another one of many many fake Rolexes that someone "found in the trash bin and now needs to sell for cash." You can see the screenshot below. It's a hell of a blurry picture (and only one at that), the GMT hand looks bent or screwy all together, no cyclops, color on the hand looks off, seconds-hand missing lume; all telltale signs of a fake being advertised. It was also being advertised well below what a GMT should go for. Still, for some odd reason I decide to reach out to the seller. To my surprise he happily shared the watch's S/N, which allowed me to do some quick searching to see if it's been reported stolen, and sent another picture which was slightly better than original, but still looked like it was taken with a 1990's phone. Due to the quality, that second picture didn't provide too many new clues, but it provided a crucial detail that I couldn't make out in the original photo - as best as I could tell it had a proper hand stack!!! This is when I start to get excited. Still, I know there are fakes with proper stacks. I ask if he's willing to meet me at my watchmaker (watchmaker A) and he tells me he won't go to him because he scratched up his Citizen once before. Huh? Great, another one of those guys that comes with an elaborate story for why he doesn't want to meet at a watchmaker. Still, determined, I ask if he'll meet at another watchmaker (watchmaker B) a little ways away and after another handful of unclear email exchanges it looks like we're set to meet at watchmaker B. A little side-note that will become more important later is that both watchmaker A and watchmaker B use abbreviations in their business name. By now it's the next day and we're supposed to meet around lunch time. At this stage I'm fully expecting a wasted hour of driving and a missed opportunity to have a good sandwich in the cafeteria. I get to watchmaker B (someone I haven't dealt with in the past) and start chatting with the owner while I wait for the seller. Five minutes go by, ten minutes go by, fifteen minutes go by ... nothing. So I email the guy and he responds telling me he's there waiting for me. Another moment. Now I really feel like he's messing with me, but I try to remain cordial and after yet another few emails going back and forth it turns out he's at watchmaker A. Apparently, he confused watchmakers A and B and it was watchmaker B that previously scratched his watch. Alright, well he says he's a few miles away and is waiting for me there. I've come this far I might as well get down to the bottom of this. I excuse myself from the rather confused watchmaker B and hightail it to watchmaker A. Five minute later I am there. I walk in and my regular watchmaker looks at me with a slightly surprised look and says something along the lines of "wait, are you the guy that he [the seller that's standing there] is looking for?! I know both of you!" Hmm, that's encouraging. Without me asking, he goes on to say that if I am there to make sure that the watch is real that he can vouch for the guy right away, but still offers to open the case, put it on the ChronoScope to see how it's running, and just give it a quick once-over. And just like the he said, it sure as heck was real and it was running great. A little beat up, cyclops missing, the GMT hand bent, and the seconds-hand lume missing ... but a real, genuine GMT II with the movement virtually sparkling! I hand over the cash as quickly as I can and walk out still wondering to myself (figuratively speaking) if I just bought a Rolex GMT!!! Holy hell, I just bought a Rolex GMT!!!

So yeah, that's how I ended up with this watch and I can't wait to enjoy it. And while I have the majority of my watches always up for sale just to keep things fresh, I think this one is going in the "permanent" pile for a rather long time.

[Jackie Daytona]

Just out of curiosity, in the story you had mentioned you had searched around to ensure it wasn’t stolen.

Where would you search for or find this info? I often find myself browsing random classifieds the same way at times, but it always worries me if one is authentic that it might be stolen, and I usually back out of it as I can’t figure out how to look for that.

[Ascari_2]

Originally Posted by Dontknow

Just out of curiosity, in the story you had mentioned you had searched around to ensure it wasn’t stolen.

Where would you search for or find this info? I often find myself browsing random classifieds the same way at times, but it always worries me if one is authentic that it might be stolen, and I usually back out of it as I can’t figure out how to look for that.

The simplest way is to search google using the string:

rolex AND [insert serial number]

This string can be varied to include commas and putting quotation marks around the number (i.e., rolex AND "X,XXX,XXX") This should at least catch any mention of this watch being mentioned on some forum. Another thing to do is to call the PDs from some of the surrounding towns and ask if they've had any reports of this particular watch being stolen. The several that I called all said they had no such records. Those are the basic things that come to mind.

[Jackie Daytona]

Originally Posted by Ascari_2

The simplest way is to search google using the string:

rolex AND [insert serial number]

This string can be varied to include commas and putting quotation marks around the number (i.e., rolex AND "X,XXX,XXX") This should at least catch any mention of this watch being mentioned on some forum. Another thing to do is to call the PDs from some of the surrounding towns and ask if they've had any reports of this particular watch being stolen. The several that I called all said they had no such records. Those are the basic things that come to mind.

That makes sense. I appreciate your response.

[Kingsking]

Originally Posted by Dontknow

Just out of curiosity, in the story you had mentioned you had searched around to ensure it wasn’t stolen.

Where would you search for or find this info? I often find myself browsing random classifieds the same way at times, but it always worries me if one is authentic that it might be stolen, and I usually back out of it as I can’t figure out how to look for that.

There isnt a 100% way to know for sure, as OP mentioned google search the SN, and take it to a rolex service center for a service, if the watch was stolen and reported you'll know soon enough.

[77T]

Originally Posted by Ascari_2

Another thing to do is to call the PDs from some of the surrounding towns and ask if they've had any reports of this particular watch being stolen.

Originally Posted by Kingsking

There isnt a 100% way to know for sure, as OP mentioned google search the SN, and take it to a rolex service center for a service, if the watch was stolen and reported you'll know soon enough.

NCIC Article File query is what you’d want done rather than calling individual PD’s. Your local PD can do that once and any report done by any PD nationwide will show up.

This is easier than Rolex file search by sending watch to RSC because RUSA won’t accept a theft report without a police report.

Of course, if the watch was stolen outside the US, then there is a chance RSC will have it flagged without a US PD report.


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