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Old 4 March 2019, 01:08 PM   #1
kingaustin
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Is it possible: To be sold a "real" watch with fake movement/parts?

Hello there, in the past year I've purchased multiple stainless steel models, to name a few: a hulk, batman, pepsi all from grey dealers.

is there any chance at all that these could be legitimate as it appears on the outside but internally the movements swapped? I bought these all blindly and I have no reason to think they are otherwise legitimate, however I just have a thought in the back of my head that I have spent close to $50k in watches and it would supremely suck if any of these carried any type of fake parts, unknown to my untrained eye. Whether intentional ( though i doubt the resellers I have purchased from would risk their reputation) or perhaps the grey dealer did not know when taking these watches in they could possibly carry fake parts internal or external.

I purchased from the following resellers: sdwatches, ocwatchguy, and bobs watches. I know all these guys carry STELLAR reputations, however, I can't help but imagine there might be one or two 'tainted' watches, that would slip through the cracks, and I know i'm just being paranoid. Has there any been any cases in the past that perhaps any of the above or any other resellers that have had any sort of issues?

What is stopping the shady dealers from swapping out a part here and there and offloading them as 100% authentic?

i realized these watches they i purchased are technically 'grey', do they still carry the warranty if within the year period?
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Old 4 March 2019, 01:19 PM   #2
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Old 4 March 2019, 01:32 PM   #3
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You should have had each one opened up and validated when you purchased them. Small price to pay your local AD or certified watchmaker for such a check.

Those questions you asked can’t be answered without seeing inside...


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Old 4 March 2019, 01:38 PM   #4
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If you have the official Rolex warranty card that is still in date then the watch carries the warranty not the owner. Very very very unlikely a grey dealer is going to tamper with a watch when theres actually no point in doing so since grey dealers also have reputations to uphold just like any AD. The vintage market is another matter though.
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Old 4 March 2019, 01:53 PM   #5
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You should have had each one opened up and validated when you purchased them. Small price to pay your local AD or certified watchmaker for such a check.

Those questions you asked can’t be answered without seeing inside...


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These were purchased online. Unfortunately no local ad close by will open the case, they aren’t an official service center.
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Old 4 March 2019, 02:05 PM   #6
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you are worrying about nothing.

is it possible that someone could bung in a fake move ? yes, anything is possible, but neither of the sellers you bought from are going to risk their business to make a few dollars on the side.

If you're in the business of selling fakes, far easier and more profitable to sell a whole fake watch on eBay or CL than piss around opening up watches, changing out dials and hands etc.



Vintage, as mentioned above, is a different story.....
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Old 4 March 2019, 02:20 PM   #7
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dont worry and enjoy your watches:)
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Old 4 March 2019, 05:55 PM   #8
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Movement pics needed


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Old 4 March 2019, 08:10 PM   #9
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a real watch with a fake movement would imply that a real watch was sourced. Then they pay even more money to modify it with a fake movement? seems like a lot of hassle when you have to get the real watch anyway. where is the money for the seller in that? cost&risk to their business vs benefit is not there.

Possible, but unlikely

If i was 100% confident in the watch on the outside, i would be confident that its real on the inside and especially so for these particular hot watches. When you get into vintage maybe i would pay more attention to the movement.
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Old 4 March 2019, 09:01 PM   #10
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On current models, seriously.
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Old 5 March 2019, 03:34 AM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kingaustin View Post
Is it possible: To be sold a "real" watch with fake movement/parts?
Yes.

Does this also worry you about your car, phone, tv or pc?
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Old 5 March 2019, 04:23 AM   #12
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Yes.

Does this also worry you about your car, phone, tv or pc?
now im scared. what if the mechanic is in on it too? do i have a fake car with all the correct exterior bits
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Old 5 March 2019, 06:02 AM   #13
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now im scared. what if the mechanic is in on it too? do i have a fake car with all the correct exterior bits
Yerps i swapped your genuine land rover motor for a fiat-ducato one in the middle of the night when you where asleep and you still drive around in it while unsuspicious Now i did build the genuine LR motorblock on a carton box and did a few wheels on it too and drive around on it...

When I first came to town,
They called me the roving jewel;
Now they've changed their tune,
They call me Katy Cruel,
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Old 5 March 2019, 06:05 AM   #14
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besides the fact that you might be better off with the fiat motor
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Old 5 March 2019, 06:25 AM   #15
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Movement pics needed


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Basically what he says
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Old 5 March 2019, 07:04 AM   #16
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I have seen plently of watches at "reputable" jewelers with aftermarket parts. I recently saw a submariner with a aftermarket Pepsi bezel, and aftermarket crystal. They wee asking $7K. When I pointed it out, and the sales guy was offended and said it was 100% authentic each watch checked by their in house watchsmith. It was sold the next time I checked.
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Old 5 March 2019, 07:15 AM   #17
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I have seen plently of watches at "reputable" jewelers with aftermarket parts. I recently saw a submariner with a aftermarket Pepsi bezel, and aftermarket crystal. They wee asking $7K. When I pointed it out, and the sales guy was offended and said it was 100% authentic each watch checked by their in house watchsmith. It was sold the next time I checked.

Pretty wacky put together man, but its not really what the OP is talking about. Seems like he knows a thing or to about watches and would like you be able to tell if someone did what that jeweler did. He's talking about the stuff that cant be seen. Which like other posters have said could happen but chances are its way to much of a hassle and more than likely would not happen.
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Old 5 March 2019, 09:17 AM   #18
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In answer to your first, yes there are some Watch dealers that sell Watches that are not 100% authentic. These Watches Dealers sometimes use non Rolex parts in place of genuine parts that for one reason or another have ceased to work. I have even heard it said that some Rolexes have been made up of several broken Watches’s to create one working watch, these watches are referred to as Franklin Watches for obvious reasons. If purchased from a reputable Grey Dealer you really would have no cause to worry because these reputable dealers check out their stock in great detail to make sure that there was no non Rolex part that replaced the original part or if there was a part replaced it was with a genuine part. Now regarding the Warranty if there is some of the original warranty left, say the warranty is for five years & the Watch is three years old you still have two years of the Manufacturers warranty left & as has been pointed out here so many times the warranty follows the Watch not the person providing the warranty card was filled in fully with the AD’s stamp, signed, dated & swiped at point of sale to activate the warranty. So now were back to the components of the watch, a part that is not a genuine part, or the watch has in any way been altered, by other than a qualified Rolex technician will invalidate the warranty. I have heard it said that even to alter the bracelet will invalidate the warranty. Though I am not sure if that is actually the case. But I have purchased a few Rolexes from one Grey Dealer & had no issues granted the Watches were brand new with there protective stickers on. But if you purchase from a trusted seller you will have nothing to worry about. Complete peace of mind
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Old 5 March 2019, 09:21 AM   #19
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Oh you mean like a genuine watch that has the movement replaced with an ETA or something? I suppose its possible. But then why would anyone do that to a Rolex?
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Old 5 March 2019, 09:54 AM   #20
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Oh you mean like a genuine watch that has the movement replaced with an ETA or something? I suppose its possible. But then why would anyone do that to a Rolex?
To make a fast $3000
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Old 6 March 2019, 07:01 AM   #21
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Is it possible: To be sold a "real" watch with fake movement/parts?

Well you can have a gen dial on an ETA movement but due to where the dial feet are on a Rolex dial they would have to be chopped off and “glued” dial dots to hold it to the movement.

The Gen Rolex hands will not fit in an ETA cannon, the sizing is different so that’s out of the question. They make ETA DWO that are very very close to Rolex DWO but they aren’t as clear, centered etc.

ETA movements can fit in a Gen case but the crown/ stem height is usually off by some and out great tension on the movement and can bind up and destroy it.

The Chinese movements (SH3135), SH4130 (with blue balance spring) you can swap some Gen parts in there but they take some filing down and removing a jewel in places. You can easily put a Gen auto wind bridge on these movement which I have seen personally for Sub $300.

Also have seen a very nice Fraken watch of a GMT II with a SH3135 movement that was modified with a slew of Gen parts to make it a GMT with CHS and function. Dude spent over 1k on the parts to modify the movement, 2k on dial, insert, bezel assembly, another 300 on crystal and gasket. $500 on the hands. Plus the cost of the Chinese watch which was $500 IIRC. So around 4300-5000 to have a fake watch with Gen parts, to each their own but at that price point you could buy a decent used Sub, Explorer, EXII, DJ etc... just seems silly to me.

Just some food for thought.


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Old 6 March 2019, 07:12 AM   #22
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Take them and get them checked out. This the only way you will be at ease with this.
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Old 6 March 2019, 07:58 AM   #23
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The Chinese movements (SH3135), SH4130 (with blue balance spring)


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It does NOT have a "blue" Parachron Balance Spring anything like the Rolex "Parachron BLEU" spring.
Its just blue heated steel.
Shock protection is old fashioned modified KIF not new Paraflex.

to name just a few differences!

its nothing like a genuine ROLEX 3135 or 4130
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Old 6 March 2019, 08:53 AM   #24
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Well you can have a gen dial on an ETA movement but due to where the dial feet are on a Rolex dial they would have to be chopped off and “glued” dial dots to hold it to the movement.

The Gen Rolex hands will not fit in an ETA cannon, the sizing is different so that’s out of the question. They make ETA DWO that are very very close to Rolex DWO but they aren’t as clear, centered etc.

ETA movements can fit in a Gen case but the crown/ stem height is usually off by some and out great tension on the movement and can bind up and destroy it.

The Chinese movements (SH3135), SH4130 (with blue balance spring) you can swap some Gen parts in there but they take some filing down and removing a jewel in places. You can easily put a Gen auto wind bridge on these movement which I have seen personally for Sub $300.

Also have seen a very nice Fraken watch of a GMT II with a SH3135 movement that was modified with a slew of Gen parts to make it a GMT with CHS and function. Dude spent over 1k on the parts to modify the movement, 2k on dial, insert, bezel assembly, another 300 on crystal and gasket. $500 on the hands. Plus the cost of the Chinese watch which was $500 IIRC. So around 4300-5000 to have a fake watch with Gen parts, to each their own but at that price point you could buy a decent used Sub, Explorer, EXII, DJ etc... just seems silly to me.

Just some food for thought.


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Nice write up...
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Old 6 March 2019, 12:31 PM   #25
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Yes, ever heard of john mayer?
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25 or 6 to 4.
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Old 7 March 2019, 01:11 AM   #26
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It does NOT have a "blue" Parachron Balance Spring anything like the Rolex "Parachron BLEU" spring.

Its just blue heated steel.

Shock protection is old fashioned modified KIF not new Paraflex.



to name just a few differences!



its nothing like a genuine ROLEX 3135 or 4130


Never said it was like the Rolex one just stated it’s blue in color just something to be aware of.




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Old 7 March 2019, 01:18 AM   #27
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Never said it was like the Rolex one just stated it’s blue in color just something to be aware of.




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Yes Blue steeled.
Also many other differences
Regards
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Old 7 March 2019, 02:37 AM   #28
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Originally Posted by tigey View Post
Oh you mean like a genuine watch that has the movement replaced with an ETA or something? I suppose its possible. But then why would anyone do that to a Rolex?
Quote:
Originally Posted by GLADIATOR View Post
To make a fast $3000
how could someone source a real BLRO, swap the movement and make more money than if they didn't swap it? What am i missing in relation to the OP's concern?

that makes no sense.

Unless you are implying people are doing this and then reselling genuine movements as just the movement. That can't be that common as who is buying a Rolex movement without the watch? Then you have a fake watch with a real movement and that is even weirder.

vintage watches is a different story and an entirely different ballgame to which i have no idea about anything. Seems like the wild west to me though, so careful/paranoid is the best way to be.
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Old 7 March 2019, 02:47 AM   #29
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how could someone source a real BLRO, swap the movement and make more money than if they didn't swap it? What am i missing in relation to the OP's concern?

that makes no sense.

.
You can buy GENUINE movements. No idea where they come from.
I had one from a fake watch and I sold it for $3000.

In past 6 weeks I have seen about 1 dozen genuine movements in fake cases and dials
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Old 7 March 2019, 02:49 AM   #30
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You can buy GENUINE movements. No idea where they come from.
I had one from a fake watch and I sold it for $3000.

In past 6 weeks I have seen about 1 dozen genuine movements in fake cases and dials
this hobby gets stranger by the day. You have to admit real watches with fake movement and real movements on fake watches is bizarre. Kind of miss the days when the entire watch was real or fake
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