Question for watchmaker types - hand-winding automatic ETA movements

[mgsooner]

Happy Friday, gents. I'm on the search for a sports "beater" to wear mainly during the warm weather months to take some of the burden off of my Exp and Sub. I do not anticipate it will be something that gets worn all that often and will definitely sit in the watchbox for long periods without getting picked up. For that reason I've been mainly focusing my search on quartz and solar. The problem is that there's just not all that much out there in the quartz/solar realm that isn't absolutely massive for my smallish wrists. I have found a handful of decent options including Citizen, Scurfa and even a Tag. I'm not looking to break the bank on this purchase, ideally it would be under $1k US and certainly under $1500. And yes I already own a G Shock.

One of the main reasons I've been focusing on quartz and solar is that I have read that automatic ETA movements do not take well to frequent hand-winding. The vast majority of auto sports watches in the price range I'm looking at have ETA or Sellita movements in them, with the exception being those further down the chain that have Miyota or Seiko movements in them. As I said above, I fully expect this to be a watch that sits in the box for days or even weeks at a time without being picked up and thus if it were an auto movement it would stop. I know that SKX is a popular suggestion here but no hacking/handwinding is a non-starter for me.

So finally getting to my actual question: is it accurate that ETA/Sellita movements do not stand up to frequent hand-winding over time, or is this an overblown consideration? I don't want to narrow my search unnecessarily as taking auto movements off the table severely limits my options.

Thanks!

[Doc Savage]

The ETA 2824 has a bit of a reputation for not being the happiest at being wound constantly. However, doing 2 things usually makes them work without issue: 1) wind them only until the second hand begins moving, and then put them on. No other winding is needed; and 2) don't super-torque when you wind - i.e. don't suddenly spin the crown from zero to 1000 rpm in an instant. Of course, this is good advice for any mechanical movement. Those tiny gears are a potential weak point in any watch.

[ZeGerman11]

Originally Posted by Doc Savage

The ETA 2824 has a bit of a reputation for not being the happiest at being wound constantly. However, doing 2 things usually makes them work without issue: 1) wind them only until the second hand begins moving, and then put wear them. No other winding is needed; and 2) don't super-torque when you wind - i.e. don't suddenly spin the crown from zero to 1000 rpm in an instant. Of course, this is good advice for any mechanical movement. Those tiny gears are a potential weak point in any watch.

This. I have the 2824 in my Damasko and if I wind it slowly and just until the second hand starts moving (or just a little more after) all is well. If I wind aggressively, all starts to go sideways. Things feel like they lock up, although the watch still runs fine and keeps good time. I even started a thread about this a month or so ago.

Funny enough, my Sinn has an ETA 2893 and I can wind it all day without issue. Go figure.

[Doc Savage]

Originally Posted by ZeGerman11

This. I have the 2824 in my Damasko and if I wind it slowly and just until the second hand starts moving (or just a little more after) all is well. If I wind aggressively, all starts to go sideways. Things feel like they lock up, although the watch still runs fine and keeps good time. I even started a thread about this a month or so ago.

Funny enough, my Sinn has an ETA 2893 and I can wind it all day without issue. Go figure.

I almost mentioned the ETA 2892/2893. My watches with this movement are like yours - VERY smooth winding with low resistance.

[mgsooner]

Thanks, this helps a great deal. I believe I may need to go back to the drawing board and rethink some things.

Do either of you have any experience with/thoughts on Miyota movements and their ability to stand up to hand-winding? Lots of micro-brands starting to pop up using Miyotas.

[ZeGerman11]

I’m not sure you need to write off ETA movements altogether. The Damasko has run flawlessly and kept great time for the last year I’ve owned it. I even sent it in under warranty the first time I experienced the winding “quirk.” They sent it back without finding anything wrong. It’s been a great watch thus far.

My Sinn has been even better. Keeps better time, sent to RGM for service after six years of ownership only because the sulphate capsule was becoming a dark blue color. Timekeeping was still just as good as ever.

I’d happily recommend either watch/movement combo. I however have no experience with Miyota movements so I have no value to add there.

Happy to answer any questions about Sinn or Damasko if you find yourself down the German watch path. Best of luck! You’ll find something that fits the bill.

[stateman]

Not a watchmaker so can’t answer your movement question - but will second the Sinn reference.

I’ve had an 856 for a while as a “beater”. Tegimented steel, antimagnetic,and 200m water resistance. Drilled lugs make strap changes super fast and even now there are zero scratches on the case due to tegiment...even with dozens of strap changes. Have leather strap, erikas original and rubber strap for it. Also comes with bracelet from mfr but don’t have that option myself.

[JR16]

I have several watches w ETA auto movements and have never encountered the hand-winding issues . But if you are concerned, you could also entertain watches w manual movements.

With regard to quartz for a smaller wrist- consider spending a little extra to get a Grand Seiko- phenomenal .


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

[Andad]

Ball watch warranty was refused by their AD in Sydney.

I bought a Ball Fireman 11 (ETA movement).
It has the tritium tubes so I was using it as a night clock and winding it most days.

After about 6 months I had issues with it and felt the rotor turning when winding.

I sent it to Ball’s service centre in Sydney.

The watchmaker rang me and after a discussion they refused to fix it under warranty as I had been manually winding it and as it was an automatic movement he said it was not designed for this.

I like the watch but would never buy another Ball watch.

My night clock is now a tritium tube Traser quartz.

[77T]

Was the diagnosis that you had slipped/stripped the auto wind reverser/clutch?

Or over-revved the engine?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

[Doc Savage]

Originally Posted by mgsooner

Thanks, this helps a great deal. I believe I may need to go back to the drawing board and rethink some things.

Do either of you have any experience with/thoughts on Miyota movements and their ability to stand up to hand-winding? Lots of micro-brands starting to pop up using Miyotas.

I am a big fan of the Miyota 9015. I prefer it to the ETA 2824 in many ways. Its only drawback is the somewhat noisy rotor. However, depending on the case, that noise can be mostly muted.

[Andad]

Originally Posted by 77T

Was the diagnosis that you had slipped/stripped the auto wind reverser/clutch?

Or over-revved the engine?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

His evaluation:

The ‘constant’ manual winding, about every second day, had caused ‘grit’ to form and this had caused some binding between the gears and this had caused the auto winding rotor to also bind and turn when winding the watch etc. etc.

His final advice was ‘Don’t manually wind it so much’?

[gnuyork]

I'm generally not a fan of quartz for various reasons (and maybe unfairly), but as it happens I purchased my first Eco Drive watch and it arrived this past Friday... I'll admit that I am intrigued by Eco Drive, more so than it being quartz... But bottom line, it's accurate to +/- 20 seconds in a month and when fully charged has a power reserve of 6 months...

Quickly glancing at the Citizen site, it seems there are plenty of men's sports watches that would seemingly fit your criteria, one of them even 46mm that I just checked. If you are going to wear it infrequently, the Eco Drive with its 6 month power reserve would make a lot of sense.

Mine in the dressy Stiletto (38mm) and I like it very much so far.

[brandrea]

Originally Posted by directioneng

His evaluation:

The ‘constant’ manual winding, about every second day, had caused ‘grit’ to form and this had caused some binding between the gears and this had caused the auto winding rotor to also bind and turn when winding the watch etc. etc.

His final advice was ‘Don’t manually wind it so much’?

I’ve never heard of this before ... Interesting

[77T]

Originally Posted by directioneng

His evaluation:



The ‘constant’ manual winding, about every second day, had caused ‘grit’ to form and this had caused some binding between the gears and this had caused the auto winding rotor to also bind and turn when winding the watch etc. etc.



His final advice was ‘Don’t manually wind it so much’?

My guess is he flunked the section of the watchmaking test on the auto-wind mechanism’s connection to the gear train.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

[mgsooner]

Originally Posted by Doc Savage

I am a big fan of the Miyota 9015. I prefer it to the ETA 2824 in many ways. Its only drawback is the somewhat noisy rotor. However, depending on the case, that noise can be mostly muted.

Thanks! I believe Nodus uses the 9015 in some of their offerings, which is a brand I have had a close eye on as of late.

Originally Posted by gnuyork

I'm generally not a fan of quartz for various reasons (and maybe unfairly), but as it happens I purchased my first Eco Drive watch and it arrived this past Friday... I'll admit that I am intrigued by Eco Drive, more so than it being quartz... But bottom line, it's accurate to +/- 20 seconds in a month and when fully charged has a power reserve of 6 months...

Quickly glancing at the Citizen site, it seems there are plenty of men's sports watches that would seemingly fit your criteria, one of them even 46mm that I just checked. If you are going to wear it infrequently, the Eco Drive with its 6 month power reserve would make a lot of sense.

Mine in the dressy Stiletto (38mm) and I like it very much so far.

Yes Citizen is definitely an option I'm keeping at the top of my list for this purpose. I really prefer solar to quartz.

[Doc Savage]

Originally Posted by mgsooner

Thanks! I believe Nodus uses the 9015 in some of their offerings, which is a brand I have had a close eye on as of late...

Nodus is a cool microbrand, but look closely at the specific watch specs. Some of their watches use the Seiko NH35. That is a durable movement, but it is not very accurate.

[mgsooner]

Originally Posted by Doc Savage

Nodus is a cool microbrand, but look closely at the specific watch specs. Some of their watches use the Seiko NH35. That is a durable movement, but it is not very accurate.

Yeah was just looking at that. It appears they have two price points with only the “higher end” watches having Miyota movements.

[PJ S]

Originally Posted by mgsooner

...
Yes Citizen is definitely an option I'm keeping at the top of my list for this purpose. I really prefer solar to quartz.

Er… the solar element is to re-charge the lithium ion battery, which is what powers the quartz-based movement.
Same goes for Seiko’s Kinetic – a rotor to feed the capacitor, which discharges as it powers the quartz-based movement.

[gnuyork]

Originally Posted by mgsooner

I really prefer solar to quartz.

Originally Posted by PJ S

Er… the solar element is to re-charge the lithium ion battery, which is what powers the quartz-based movement.
Same goes for Seiko’s Kinetic – a rotor to feed the capacitor, which discharges as it powers the quartz-based movement.

Right, still quartz, just no need to swap out the battery

[mgsooner]

Thanks guys