5712/1a at 63!?!

[tng11]

Originally Posted by rolexpatek363

It's not "insanity", it's how the market currently values these watches.

I fail to see how an individual dealer (DSW) can be said to be "making the market", when 5712s are offered at anything between £40k and £64k (about $52k to $82k) on Chrono24. This thread started 5 days ago, and the watch is already gone.

https://www.chrono24.co.uk/search/in...goal_suggest=1

Sure, that's what people might be willing to pay, and what the market is, but I'd have moved on if I didn't already have one (much thanks again to the very gracious TRF member who helped me out last year.) It's definitely my favourite watch, the honeymoon hasn't ended yet after 8 months, but I would still have a hard time justifying 60K for it. That said, I wouldn't sell mine at the price DSW was asking for his, so who am I to comment?

[tyler1980]

Originally Posted by tng11

Sure, that's what people might be willing to pay, and what the market is, but I'd have moved on if I didn't already have one (much thanks again to the very gracious TRF member who helped me out last year.) It's definitely my favourite watch, the honeymoon hasn't ended yet after 8 months, but I would still have a hard time justifying 60K for it. That said, I wouldn't sell mine at the price DSW was asking for his, so who am I to comment?

it wouldn't have sold for that in december, as the markets turned around in Jan I'm sure it pushed people back into purchasing

[bob101]

Originally Posted by tyler1980

it wouldn't have sold for that in december, as the markets turned around in Jan I'm sure it pushed people back into purchasing

If some god awful Frank Muller rip offs aka Richard Mille can go for ridiculous prices I dont see why a family owned quality timepiece can finally go for silly money :)

[jrs146]

A 5712 was recently posted in the classifieds for $58,000. $5,000 less than what David had his at.


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[tyler1980]

Originally Posted by jrs146

A 5712 was recently posted in the classifieds for $58,000. $5,000 less than what David had his at.


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by who? just saying the lesser seller needs to sell it for less otherwise why not just buy from one of the big dealers. Price is the only way people will sacrifice piece of mind which it is to some extent buying from a smaller dealer

I dont think that is new. A private seller almost always needs to sell for less than a big/trusted dealer. Might be a great seller but he is way less established. If a dealer sets market price, i would have to sell below that if it was me for sure.

[jrs146]

Originally Posted by tyler1980

by who? just saying the lesser seller needs to sell it for less otherwise why not just buy from one of the big dealers. Price is the only way people will sacrifice piece of mind which it is to some extent buying from a smaller dealer

I dont think that is new. A private seller almost always needs to sell for less than a dealer. Might be a great seller but he is way less established. If a dealer sets market price, i would have to sell below that if it was me for sure.

Yeah of course David can probably get more than anyone. He’s definitely the biggest or in the top three.

I don’t know the seller personally of the one I was making reference to but I do believe he is a well established high end dealer.

I’m just surprised to see the 5712 at these prices. I guess I’ve lost track of what these go for recently. 63k seemed so high to me. But maybe high 50’s to low 60’s is the new norm...


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[tyler1980]

Originally Posted by jrs146

Yeah of course David can probably get more than anyone. He’s definitely the biggest or in the top three.

I don’t know the seller personally of the one I was making reference to but I do believe he is a well established high end dealer.

I’m just surprised to see the 5712 at these prices. I guess I’ve lost track of what these go for recently. 63k seemed so high to me. But maybe high 50’s to low 60’s is the new norm...


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of anything i also think its the private sellers pushing up their prices and in turn the DSW's can then push their's up too to maintain that separation... as there should be separation.

It makes as much logical sense as the big dealers just picking a random number. I bet they have been seeing all the other listings go up and they are just matching it and adding their premium which is well earned. If i did buy from a secondary dealer, they would be the absolutely only ones i would use so 5k isn't enough of a difference for me to be even a little apprehensive.

I have not heard of the seller in that listing. Doesn't mean he isn't legit and 100% trustworthy. I just haven't personally heard of him

[tng11]

Ryan (watchesandcars95) is legit. Quite a few people I know in the community have dealt with him and he's stand up, but it seems a lot of his stock and sales are done through IG. He always has crazy Nautilus and Aquanaut inventory.

That said, it appears that the watch is a bit older than the one DSW had, from what I can tell with the dial version.

[tyler1980]

Originally Posted by tng11

Ryan (watchesandcars95) is legit. Quite a few people I know in the community have dealt with him and he's stand up, but it seems a lot of his stock and sales are done through IG. He always has crazy Nautilus and Aquanaut inventory.

That said, it appears that the watch is a bit older than the one DSW had, from what I can tell with the dial version.

i still think he probably can't command the same price as a big TS as less people know who he is. Price sorts all that out as its about levels and legit or not its not the same level. Maybe that doesn't matter to everyone, but im sure it does to some as there are a lot of casual buyers who just gravitate to the big names as its easy

[ragsk]

Originally Posted by AK797

For sure, shame as a few years ago they were a very good dealer, and esp so when WF were very dodgy and unprofessional, but now they both just compete with each other in pushing the market higher and higher while they pay out the bare minimum.

Yep that is the reality. The ones pocketing from this short supply market are the grey dealers in the main. Private individuals can hardly ever achieve anywhere near these types of prices and if they try to sell them to dealers they get low ball offers.

A $47k offer versus a selling price of $63k is quite some margin. Similarly the with Rolex - I thought about selling my brand new unworn D-Blue and I was getting offers at retail from dealers.....

Of course it’s about the pleasure of wearing watches for us folk. But don’t go thinking you have made a shed load of money on a watch just because of dealer selling prices you see. The reality is quite different.

[sechsgang]

I think the values of these are actually going to keep going up. Waitlists for the 5711 and the 5712 are closed, pretty much everywhere on the planet and Patek isn't producing more, and even closed quite a few ADs. You may be able to get a used 2012 model for the lower/mid 50s, but a 2017 upwards model is going to be up there without a doubt. meanwhile, the 5711 trades at literally 100 percent over retail, so the 5712 at 50 percent isn't that wild. Don't forget the 5980 blue dials are listed at 100k...

[V25V]

Originally Posted by ragsk

Private individuals can hardly ever achieve anywhere near these types of prices and if they try to sell them to dealers they get low ball offers.

This has not been my experience at all and I am far from a big seller on here. I have always been able to get market price for any piece I have sold, maybe slightly less than what a TS can fetch. But if I sold to a TS, I am sure I would have got even less since he has to build in his margin for the sale.

[rolexpatek363]

Originally Posted by V25V

This has not been my experience at all and I am far from a big seller on here. I have always been able to get market price for any piece I have sold, maybe slightly less than what a TS can fetch. But if I sold to a TS, I am sure I would have got even less since he has to build in his margin for the sale.

That's very hard to believe.

As a private seller you are nobody. You can't even guarantee that the watch isn't fake or a franken or stolen. You can't offer any sort of warranty. It's "sold as seen". No way are you going to sell an equivalent watch for as much as it would cost from a professional outfit, rightly or wrongly.

[V25V]

Originally Posted by rolexpatek363

That's very hard to believe.



As a private seller you are nobody. You can't even guarantee that the watch isn't fake or a franken or stolen. You can't offer any sort of warranty. It's "sold as seen". No way are you going to sell an equivalent watch for as much as it would cost from a professional outfit, rightly or wrongly.

Then I guess I'm a liar....


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[jrs146]

Originally Posted by rolexpatek363

That's very hard to believe.



As a private seller you are nobody. You can't even guarantee that the watch isn't fake or a franken or stolen. You can't offer any sort of warranty. It's "sold as seen". No way are you going to sell an equivalent watch for as much as it would cost from a professional outfit, rightly or wrongly.

Originally Posted by V25V

Then I guess I'm a liar....


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I haven’t sold for DavidSW prices but the few hot models I’ve sold I have gotten very very close.


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[V25V]

Originally Posted by jrs146

I haven’t sold for DavidSW prices but the few hot models I’ve sold I have gotten very very close.


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Which is what I said. I may be a bit lower than their prices but not far off. And it's not like I would have sold it to them at what I sold myself, so that's as good as we are going to do. They have to make their money too.... once you are somewhat established, it's not that hard to sell yourself at solid pricing.


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[jonnyz1245]

Originally Posted by rolexpatek363

That's very hard to believe.

As a private seller you are nobody. You can't even guarantee that the watch isn't fake or a franken or stolen. You can't offer any sort of warranty.

Sure you can. What if they bought the watch at an AD? Paperworks in their name, they have receipts etc. I can guarantee its authentic just as easily as a TS. What if theirs have passed through 5 other owners before it gets to them? Sure they will stand behind it if you send it back after its proven a fake but a private seller can offer the same. Lots of savvy buyers can do their own DD and buy the seller and not the watch. In the US, the warranty on a Rolex follows the watch. If I bought a BLNR 2 months ago and sold it, the buyer would get 4 years and 10 months of warranty.Same as if he bought it from DSW etc.

And to echo what the V25V said, you can come damn close to getting what a TS does on hard to get models. Plenty of people on here do it regularly

[Ichiran]

Originally Posted by tng11

Well, it's no longer on his site. I wonder what the realized price actually was. But anywhere in that range is insanity to me.

We might be able to make a guess of the transacted price based on his next listing of another new 5712, or at least, make an close estimate.

[rolexpatek363]

Originally Posted by V25V

Then I guess I'm a liar....


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Please don't put words in my mouth. When you say "slightly less" and "very close", what does that mean, percentage-wise?

Thanks.

[tyler1980]

Originally Posted by V25V

This has not been my experience at all and I am far from a big seller on here. I have always been able to get market price for any piece I have sold, maybe slightly less than what a TS can fetch. But if I sold to a TS, I am sure I would have got even less since he has to build in his margin for the sale.

it may be a 5k spread as far as what we are talking about but that's only 6-8% under a big TS depending on what these actually sell for... therefore i think what you are saying is accurate. Pretty close to market but "slightly below" ...5k may seem like a lot but at a watch listed at over 60k its not. Part of that spread seems to be one is newer than the other though, so maybe its really only 3k difference apples to apples.

what percent would i have to be below DSW for you to buy a watch from me vs the same watch from him? what that number is could be debatable, what isn't is that it would have to be less.

[V25V]

Originally Posted by tyler1980

it may be a 5k spread as far as what we are talking about but that's only 6-8% under a big TS depending on what these actually sell for... therefore i think what you are saying is accurate. Pretty close to market but "slightly below" ...5k may seem like a lot but at a watch listed at over 60k its not. Part of that spread seems to be one is newer than the other though, so maybe its really only 3k difference apples to apples.

what percent would i have to be below DSW for you to buy a watch from me vs the same watch from him? what that number is could be debatable, what isn't is that it would have to be less.

I haven't bought many used watches but when I have, its been from David or Trahn. So I get the buyers end.

I'm just saying my experience on selling watches here (3 AP's and a few Rolexes) have been that I have got almost exactly market price for them without any hassle at all. Go look up my old listings..... I have also sold some to those same TS'ers and those have been good experiences as well. I'm just saying it isn't that hard to sell yourself in this market and get market price for what you have, assuming they are in demand pieces and you have some history on here. Can I get a higher price than anyone has ever listed a piece for like David? I dunno, likely not but I never said that either.


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[tng11]

I'd say my experience selling here has been pretty similar to V25V. I get slightly below what DSW and other TS sell for, but not a huge difference. Maybe 5% less, if that.

A factor that helps me is that most of my watches sell locally, and we have a much smaller secondary market in this country. Buying from a TS can get expensive quickly if you do a proper declaration (potentially 18% in taxes on top).

[Stratos]

anybody willing to pay 63k for a steel 5712, is a fool.

period.

[brandrea]

I’m sure David appreciates this thread.

[jrs146]

Originally Posted by brandrea

I’m sure David appreciates this thread.

It’s all part of his master plan!


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[tom2517]

Just saw this, based on exchange rate it’s close to 67k.

[verse214]

DavidSW doesn't have the watch listed anymore - did it sell?

[AK797]

Originally Posted by Stratos

anybody willing to pay 63k for a steel 5712, is a fool.

period.

That's what many said at 40K and 50K... no point trying to call a top, just enjoy the ride.

[ap1]

Originally Posted by ap1

Look, I’ll give you guys a discount. 60, who wants it

You guys missed out. Mines now 65

[benlee]

I wonder if this is snowball effect. The more these watches rise in price the more people desire them, and the more current owners who might be thinking of selling change their minds and hold on to them hoping to sell at better price later, thus further shrinking the supply and constricting availability.

In economy, they call it a bubble, but this has been going on like for years. Frankly not sure what to make of it.