5712/1a at 63!?!

[tyler1980]

Originally Posted by Russell996

To be fair your analogy of your recent house purchase and it being ‘perfect’ for you simply doesn’t translate to the watch market and particularly a standard production model available to order at all AD’s. There are 1000’s, they are all the same, you can buy one at list if you are happy to wait. There is no reason to pay more from one dealer than another. Of course, this could be the correct latest crazy market price.

I don't buy grey market but if i did i would probably be pretty particular about who i bought it from. I would probably pay more for piece of mind from DSW so i think its perfectly justifiable for it to be higher than other random listings. Part of that premium has got to be reputation as that is worth something

[Russell996]

Originally Posted by tyler1980

I don't buy grey market but if i did i would probably be pretty particular about who i bought it from. I would probably pay more for piece of mind from DSW so i think its perfectly justifiable for it to be higher than other random listings. Part of that premium has got to be reputation as that is worth something

Not disagreeing with the relative merits of different grey dealers - some are clearly better than others and guard their reputation. Where we differ is the analogy of a mass produced item to a unique and personally ideal house.

[ts3]

Originally Posted by AK797

Big Euro Grey, Chronext, has them at £47K which is around $62K so similar, and that's after claiming they are discounting it having asked for £50K before.

The discounts at Chronext are marketing BS - this site is all about OTT marketing in my perception. Their asking prices for new SS Nautilus are 5+% above the large Munich dealers (thinking Meertz or Bachmann & Scher) and that is after the alleged discount...

[JR16]

Originally Posted by 1William

The market will determine the price and so will David in what he will take. I watch the prices on several TS sites and see the adjustments, both up and down. There is a buyer for this PP, at close to what David is asking and he knows it. He will sit tight and wait and then get paid. That is the business.

Totally agree. And why should David do otherwise ? He’s good at what he does. It’s a business. His goal is to make money and to know the market better than anyone else. And we will never know how much this particular watch sells for unless the buyer posts it. So much of the forum “public” will now think a “new” 5712 is worth $62k US based on David and chrononext.


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[subtona]

Originally Posted by jrs146

What’s the relationship between listing for a high price and having a watch in stock?


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If it remains in stock it will drive more potential business his way as people search for availability... as the price climbs some may decide the number is too high and begin looking for alternate choices... if they happen to be browsing at an available 5712 on the listing site them may be they start browsing for that alternative without ever leaving that newly discovered website?

[jrs146]

Originally Posted by subtona

If it remains in stock it will drive more potential business his way as people search for availability... as the price climbs some may decide the number is too high and begin looking for alternate choices... if they happen to be browsing at an available 5712 on the listing site them may be they start browsing for that alternative without ever leaving that newly discovered website?

Lol


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[subtona]

Originally Posted by jrs146

Lol


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You’re welcome.

Your explanation is?

[AK797]

Originally Posted by ts3

The discounts at Chronext are marketing BS - this site is all about OTT marketing in my perception. Their asking prices for new SS Nautilus are 5+% above the large Munich dealers (thinking Meertz or Bachmann & Scher) and that is after the alleged discount...

For sure, shame as a few years ago they were a very good dealer, and esp so when WF were very dodgy and unprofessional, but now they both just compete with each other in pushing the market higher and higher while they pay out the bare minimum.

[jrs146]

Originally Posted by subtona

You’re welcome.

Your explanation is?

It just all seems so convoluted to me opposed to just selling a watch. Most industries specifically do not want to hold onto inventory. It’s priced at market value for the quickest sale at the highest profit. Now we are all talking about pricing at or above market value to specifically not sell the watch quickly. As I said before the only explanation I can think of is he’s more interested in pushing the price higher than the profit associated with selling it at a price that would sell quickly. That’s basically the definition of a market maker.

FYI I wasn’t laughing at your response. I don’t disagree with you. I just think it’s funny that this situation even exists.


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[tyler1980]

Originally Posted by jrs146

It just all seems so convoluted to me opposed to just selling a watch. Most industries specifically do not want to hold onto inventory. It’s priced at market value for the quickest sale at the highest profit. Now we are all talking about pricing at or above market value to specifically not sell the watch quickly. As I said before the only explanation I can think of is he’s more interested in pushing the price higher than the profit associated with selling it at a price that would sell quickly. That’s basically the definition of a market maker.

FYI I wasn’t laughing at your response. I don’t disagree with you. I just think it’s funny that this situation even exists.


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if i were to sell my 5990 i would price it way, way high as i don't need to sell it but for the right price i might so i could take a wait and see approach. Not saying DSW has the same motivation but he may not be looking to move it fast either

Someone offers to pay a ridiculous price and then most watches that we all own probably would get moved on. It may indicate a supply issue sourcing more so you have to run with a higher margin if its not easily replaceable in a "new" condition. His stock online is very low and if you have a website and a physical store with no watches that isn't good either. A couple of years ago Patek and AP listings were 3 or 4 pages long now its 1 page on the website. I look at listings there way less then i use to because there is hardly anything there. If i was a potential customer i may look elsewhere too

[jrs146]

Originally Posted by tyler1980

if i were to sell my 5990 i would price it way, way high as i don't need to sell it but for the right price i might so i could take a wait and see approach. Not saying DSW has the same motivation but he may not be looking to move it fast either

Someone offers to pay a ridiculous price and then most watches that we all own probably would get moved on. It may indicate a supply issue sourcing more so you have to run with a higher margin if its not easily replaceable in a "new" condition. His stock online is very low and if you have a website and a physical store with no watches that isn't good either. A couple of years ago Patek and AP listings were 3 or 4 pages long now its 1 page on the website

I get it. And it 1000% makes sense. However Most business can’t and don’t operate on that philosophy. I only continue to press the issue because I do think it’s interesting. This is a clear example of how a gray dealer is acting as a market maker more than an actual dealer.

Whereas I would imagine most dealers are more concerned with liquidity and a (close to) market price, David is clearly operating on another business model. A market maker establishes a bid and an ask price. The margin is more important to them than the liquidity, even if it means holding the asset for a longer period of time. I guess if you have deep enough pockets and your your liquidity needs are already satisfied, it’s smart. He is essentially moving the price up to where he wants it despite the current market. If he can wait someone may bite. And then boom. It’s a reality.


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[tng11]

Man, I love my 5712/1A very dearly, but that price is ridiculous. I would move on if that is the market price as there are plenty of other great watches out there for the money. I have a hard time believing that is the final transaction price when it sells, but there's no transparency in actual traded prices. DSW definitely has influence in online grey pricing, and as of late, he seems to have been testing prices with bigger and bigger increases from one watch to the next.

And as a side note - these prices acutally hinder the enjoyment of my watch a little bit. I'll admit I'm slightly worried about having to replace mine in case of theft or loss.

[tyler1980]

Originally Posted by tng11

Man, I love my 5712/1A very dearly, but that price is ridiculous. I would move on if that is the market price as there are plenty of other great watches out there for the money. I have a hard time believing that is the final transaction price when it sells, but there's no transparency in actual traded prices. DSW definitely has influence in online grey pricing, and as of late, he seems to have been testing prices with bigger and bigger increases from one watch to the next.

And as a side note - these prices acutally hinder the enjoyment of my watch a little bit. I'll admit I'm slightly worried about having to replace mine in case of theft or loss.

thats a real problem. i struggle with that as well. You can't get another one of most of these hot watches at retail and generally you have a pretty large insurance gap anyway. I know you can insure at market prices, but i insure for the price i paid as that's my monetary loss and i am not buying a watch on the secondary market anyway so its irreplaceable for all practical purposes

[turborolex]

That’s a ridiculous price! Even at MSRP, it’s still an expensive watch for its complications. I own it and enjoy wearing it, but come on, $63,000 is just wrong.




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[Iflylo]

I'd likely not get another at retail, and really like mine. So I wouldn't sell mine for 63, would you?

[ap1]

Look, I’ll give you guys a discount. 60, who wants it

[superdog]

Originally Posted by jrs146

What’s the relationship between listing for a high price and having a watch in stock?


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Not sure I get it either.

Might as well try and actually sell your products?

[GB-man]

Originally Posted by superdog

Not sure I get it either.

Might as well try and actually sell your products?

My understanding is that it’s a trade off between profit margin and inventory turnover. If you have more capital than inventory you can source, raising the price at the expense of inventory turnover makes sense up to a certain level. What level is optimal I’m sure is something David is always monitoring.

[jrs146]

Originally Posted by GB-man

My understanding is that it’s a trade off between profit margin and inventory turnover. If you have more capital than inventory you can source, raising the price at the expense of inventory turnover makes sense up to a certain level. What level is optimal I’m sure is something David is always monitoring.

Originally Posted by superdog

Not sure I get it either.



Might as well try and actually sell your products?

I guess it seems to work in this bull watch market we are in. It’s surely a sellers market. But when that bubble bursts... which someday it will... that strategy will very quickly fail.


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[subtona]

Originally Posted by jrs146

It just all seems so convoluted to me opposed to just selling a watch. Most industries specifically do not want to hold onto inventory. It’s priced at market value for the quickest sale at the highest profit. Now we are all talking about pricing at or above market value to specifically not sell the watch quickly. As I said before the only explanation I can think of is he’s more interested in pushing the price higher than the profit associated with selling it at a price that would sell quickly. That’s basically the definition of a market maker.

FYI I wasn’t laughing at your response. I don’t disagree with you. I just think it’s funny that this situation even exists.

It certainly is an off-putting circumstance we are being exposed to.

[rolexpatek363]

Originally Posted by Iflylo

I'd likely not get another at retail, and really like mine. So I wouldn't sell mine for 63, would you?

I'm not selling my 5712 that low, either.

[tyler1980]

Originally Posted by jrs146

I get where you guys are coming from. I guess when you have unlimited funds/resources you can do this. I would imagine most dealers are more interested in moving inventory and intentionally making sure they are not sitting on product for too long. Sitting on inventory has the opportunity cost of having those funds tied up which could otherwise be used for more inventory. However I’m guessing David is very well funded and this may apply less to him if at all. If that’s the case I see how he could just sit and become a market maker. I wonder how long he’s willing to sit before he considered it over what the market will bear. Or maybe that doesn’t happen with him lol.


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he can't keep stuff in stock. Just look at his website as its a shell of what it was a few years ago so I'm guessing turnover is up combined with harder to source watches. Pricing a watch way high today it probably moves at the same speed a sub did at a 10% discount 3 years ago. We are conditioned to a watch going for sale and being gone in a day, but dealers are use to product sitting for a bit historically

[dlhussain]

Originally Posted by Ichiran

I trust David's pricing. If he says the 5712 is worth 63, it is 63.

David's prices are spot on. I have dealt with him extensively over the years.

[rw2008]

Originally Posted by dlhussain

David's prices are spot on. I have dealt with him extensively over the years.

He definitely is the best in the business to work with.

[sdh1980]

£49750 at Watch Centre on Bond Street... Similar money

[bob101]

Seen them 450khkd and above with Grey's, seems going rate. Long waiting list if you can get on at all. If Richard Mille pieces going crazy prices don't see why not a highly sought after complicated nautilus model. The 5711 been going for 60k USD or more for some time which seems more nuts seeing retail price. Just my two cents, I wouldn't think about selling it either unless daft money :)

[AshAP]

Originally Posted by jrs146

What’s the relationship between listing for a high price and having a watch in stock?


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Is this a genuine question?


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[jrs146]

Originally Posted by AshAP

Is this a genuine question?


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It is certainly a genuine question. As I've brought up in previous posts, the goal for must businesses to NOT keep items in stock. The goal is to sell them. What I have been commenting on is this is a clear example of how this specific dealer is using his stock to make the market. However, that is a very different strategy than what most retailers are trying to do. I was essentially asking if anyone else wanted to comment on the relationship between setting a price and stocking a watch.

I would ask you though, was your reply adding any genuine value? My opinion. No.

[tng11]

Well, it's no longer on his site. I wonder what the realized price actually was. But anywhere in that range is insanity to me.

[rolexpatek363]

Originally Posted by tng11

Well, it's no longer on his site. I wonder what the realized price actually was. But anywhere in that range is insanity to me.

It's not "insanity", it's how the market currently values these watches.

I fail to see how an individual dealer (DSW) can be said to be "making the market", when 5712s are offered at anything between £40k and £64k (about $52k to $82k) on Chrono24. This thread started 5 days ago, and the watch is already gone.

https://www.chrono24.co.uk/search/in...goal_suggest=1