Gray Market Prices

[superdog]

I went in today to have my strap adjusted.

I was told the price of the 5164 has gone up in the last week.

The 5726 was circa 50k for the strap version.

The 5712 was nearly 70k.

Apparently the watches continue to get harder to obtain. And therefore the prices just keep going up.

Clearly this bubble will burst.

But my gosh, this is pure insanity.

[Ichiran]

And the hardest-to-source 5740 is now 220-240k thereabouts.

[superdog]

Originally Posted by Ichiran

And the hardest-to-source 5740 is now 220-240k thereabouts.

I don’t even want to check that watch out.

[jrs146]

70k for a 5712 is pure insanity


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[superdog]

Originally Posted by jrs146

70k for a 5712 is pure insanity


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Agree. It was actually only 67. I rounded up.

[superdog]

At these mark ups, if people buying from AD don’t flip them, it’s almost as if they are being irresponsible.

[Ichiran]

Originally Posted by superdog

At these mark ups, if people buying from AD don’t flip them, it’s almost as if they are being irresponsible.

Last week, I saw a private listing of a 5740 in my area on the same day it was sold by the AD (a photo of the dated Certificate was attached in the listing) at 100% mark up.

I made a call to the Patek area agent, and within an hour, that listing was withdrawn by the seller. The name of the AD and the location of the store were also printed in the certificate (ie Patek is aware which AD sold this watch and to which customer).

I assume there will be ramifications after this incident even though there was no sales yet..

[superdog]

Originally Posted by Ichiran

Last week, I saw a private listing of a 5740 in my area on the same day it was sold by the AD (a photo of the dated Certificate was attached in the listing) at 100% mark up.

I made a call to the Patek area agent, and within an hour, that listing was withdrawn by the seller. The name of the AD and the location of the store were also printed in the certificate (ie Patek is aware which AD sold this watch and to which customer).

I assume there will be ramifications after this incident even though there was no sales yet..

I’d imagine so.

But 100k+ in a day. You have to have serious loot in order to pass that up.

10k. Okay. I’d like to keep the watch. But 100?? What the hell??

[Ichiran]

Originally Posted by superdog

I’d imagine so.

But 100k+ in a day. You have to have serious loot in order to pass that up.

10k. Okay. I’d like to keep the watch. But 100?? What the hell??

The only downside is if one ever gets blacklisted by Patek, he/she will never be able to buy another hot piece at MSRP for life?

Baselworld 2019 is just around the corner. I'm sure there will be interesting release this year.

[soundserious]

Are we calling the kettle black a bit? Ironically, the same kinds of people that spend tens of thousands of dollars on what is ultimately jewelry are the same ones that breathlessly declare bubbles.

I kid of course...tens of thousands is for chumps. I recently spent $40k+ on a stainless steel chronograph. Killer deal.

[sensui]

Originally Posted by Ichiran

Last week, I saw a private listing of a 5740 in my area on the same day it was sold by the AD (a photo of the dated Certificate was attached in the listing) at 100% mark up.

I made a call to the Patek area agent, and within an hour, that listing was withdrawn by the seller. The name of the AD and the location of the store were also printed in the certificate (ie Patek is aware which AD sold this watch and to which customer).

I assume there will be ramifications after this incident even though there was no sales yet..

Good going. Guy doesn't deserve to be allocated these types of watches.

[Ichiran]

Originally Posted by sensui

Good going. Guy doesn't deserve to be allocated these types of watches.

Absolutely. Flipped on first day.

[jrs146]

Originally Posted by Ichiran

Absolutely. Flipped on first day.

Man. First day. Savage.


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[bob101]

I saw a 5740/1G on WF UK the other day, asking 215K GBP, loco.. Seems such a waste to be fortunate enough to obtain that at retail and not keep it though.

[Mrngrz46]

Originally Posted by superdog

I went in today to have my strap adjusted.

I was told the price of the 5164 has gone up in the last week.

The 5726 was circa 50k for the strap version.

The 5712 was nearly 70k.

Apparently the watches continue to get harder to obtain. And therefore the prices just keep going up.

Clearly this bubble will burst.

But my gosh, this is pure insanity.

Why should the bubble explode? patek should continue to keep their strategy as it is and I hope no bubble explode. As long as rapper, football player, famous chef, Arabic king etc aim for them then we should not worry. Only a message to Patek: please remain private, please remain private.

[Ichiran]

Originally Posted by Ichiran

Last week, I saw a private listing of a 5740 in my area on the same day it was sold by the AD (a photo of the dated Certificate was attached in the listing) at 100% mark up.

I made a call to the Patek area agent, and within an hour, that listing was withdrawn by the seller. The name of the AD and the location of the store were also printed in the certificate (ie Patek is aware which AD sold this watch and to which customer).

I assume there will be ramifications after this incident even though there was no sales yet..

Curious, I called the GM of this AD group earlier to ask him about this incident (I do have a relationship with this AD group). His reply was "A family member of the buyer has put up a WTS of his 5740 without his knowledge and approval. We have added said family member to our blacklist for future popular models."

To me, his answer was pure hogwash and it does not make much sense. There are several pictures of the watch, box and Cert in the WTS, and interested buyers can arrange to view the watch at any time. Indicated price was also negotiable. That WTS post appears to be from the owner of the watch.

This is a clear case of "capitalism wins" and this AD can continue to sell to his biggest whale, albeit with a sacrificial lamb in the form of a family member. I'm not sure if Patek buys his story though.

[tom2517]

Originally Posted by Ichiran

Curious, I called the GM of this AD group earlier to ask him about this incident (I do have a relationship with this AD group). His reply was "A family member of the buyer has put up a WTS of his 5740 without his knowledge and approval. We have added said family member to our blacklist for future popular models."

To me, his answer was pure hogwash and it does not make much sense. There are several pictures of the watch, box and Cert in the WTS, and interested buyers can arrange to view the watch at any time. Indicated price was also negotiable. That WTS post appears to be from the owner of the watch.

This is a clear case of "capitalism wins" and this AD can continue to sell to his biggest whale, albeit with a sacrificial lamb in the form of a family member. I'm not sure if Patek buys his story though.

I don't know how I feel about this, flipping isn't exactly a crime so not sure if I would go as far as reporting it to Patek and cause problems for the seller and the AD. Maybe the seller helped moved a lot of slow selling pieces and got the 5740 as a reward.

Then again someone flipping is how I got my 5131P, so I guess I am biased.

[cascavel]

Won't all Pateks eventually end up in the hands of someone other than the original buyer? What's the difference when it happens?

[superdog]

Originally Posted by soundserious

Are we calling the kettle black a bit? Ironically, the same kinds of people that spend tens of thousands of dollars on what is ultimately jewelry are the same ones that breathlessly declare bubbles.

I kid of course...tens of thousands is for chumps. I recently spent $40k+ on a stainless steel chronograph. Killer deal.

Well that’s clearly a bit of a personal dig. Which I’m okay with. I can see your point. Except only that while I’m surely the pot, I’m not calling the kettle anything. I’m just saying things are out of control.

But regardless of what I spend, or what I buy, it’s not rocket science to see there is a bubble. And truly, I’m not disparaging it. I’m part of the problem.

I wish I didn’t spend what I did on a SS watch with a rubber strap. But I’m okay with it. I’m happy with the watch. I wish I could have gotten it at retail. But I can’t.

Doesn’t negate that I still think it’s a bubble. And when the prices crash, I’ll happily still have my watch.

[superdog]

Originally Posted by Mrngrz46

Why should the bubble explode? patek should continue to keep their strategy as it is and I hope no bubble explode. As long as rapper, football player, famous chef, Arabic king etc aim for them then we should not worry. Only a message to Patek: please remain private, please remain private.

I have the same hope that you do.

I’d love for my watch, that I paid over for, retains its value.

I also hope the economy stays strong.

I hope for a lot of things.

[Fat_ninja]

Originally Posted by jrs146

Man. First day. Savage.


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I think first time ive heard the word SAVAGE in a Patek forum lol

[Goin2drt]

Originally Posted by Ichiran

Last week, I saw a private listing of a 5740 in my area on the same day it was sold by the AD (a photo of the dated Certificate was attached in the listing) at 100% mark up.

I made a call to the Patek area agent, and within an hour, that listing was withdrawn by the seller. The name of the AD and the location of the store were also printed in the certificate (ie Patek is aware which AD sold this watch and to which customer).

I assume there will be ramifications after this incident even though there was no sales yet..

Originally Posted by sensui

Good going. Guy doesn't deserve to be allocated these types of watches.

Originally Posted by Ichiran

Absolutely. Flipped on first day.

Originally Posted by jrs146

Man. First day. Savage.


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Originally Posted by tom2517

I don't know how I feel about this, flipping isn't exactly a crime so not sure if I would go as far as reporting it to Patek and cause problems for the seller and the AD. Maybe the seller helped moved a lot of slow selling pieces and got the 5740 as a reward.

Then again someone flipping is how I got my 5131P, so I guess I am biased.

Why is this any different than DSW and all the other grays around here that EVERYONE reveres for doing the exact same thing?

[Chiboy]

Originally Posted by Fat_ninja

I think first time ive heard the word SAVAGE in a Patek forum lol

It’s the hip hop influence!

[sechsgang]

Originally Posted by cascavel

Won't all Pateks eventually end up in the hands of someone other than the original buyer? What's the difference when it happens?

Definitely intent. The whole point is to order something that you love, and to wear...we all get sick (or most) of a watch after x amount of time with some exceptions, but just taking something to turn it immediately is kind of a knock against someone who would actually enjoy the experience of owning the watch. Also, it's not like especially nowadays they won't still be worth quite a bit of money after a year or two anyways.

[tom2517]

Originally Posted by Goin2drt

Why is this any different than DSW and all the other grays around here that EVERYONE reveres for doing the exact same thing?

Well that's partly my point. This forum is filled with questions on value retention, collectability, good investment or not, most of the times I feel like people care more about if the watch will make them money than they care about the watch itself.

Who are we to question why a person decided to sell a watch. He bought it, he can do whatever he want with it, there could be many reasons why he sold it right away. Maybe he drove by a Porsche dealer and saw a brand new Turbo S and decided to sell the watch and get the car instead. Or maybe making a quick 100k is just too tempting to pass up.

I understand some people are frustrated with certain watches so difficult to get and seeing it for sale right away upsets them, but those who got them, they must have done good deeds with the AD to get them, it's not like they stole it. So reporting to Patek trying to cause ramifications for the seller and AD is going a bit too far in my opinion.

[V25V]

5164 value went up in a week?

Seth, think you or your gray dealer are trying to make yourself feel better about your purchase. Its ok, your 5164 value will hold.

[sensui]

Originally Posted by Goin2drt

Why is this any different than DSW and all the other grays around here that EVERYONE reveres for doing the exact same thing?

I think it's vastly different. Dependable grey sellers offers far more than just "flipping" a watch. Safe haven for buying/selling/trading... Discounts/market pricing on watches in general (yes people like to whine when it comes to hot watch premiums, but completely forget the discounts they get in almost all other normal watches compared to MSRP).... Not to mention it's their job/livelihood. Different from some guy abusing his relationship to make quick money day one... Regardless of reason. I do agree it's his to do with after purchased... But I don't like the thought of me being the next in line passed for this.

[superdog]

Originally Posted by V25V

5164 value went up in a week?

Seth, think you or your gray dealer are trying to make yourself feel better about your purchase. Its ok, your 5164 value will hold.

Ha. Maybe.

But at the same time he was lobbying me to get the new one from my AD and sell it to him. He just can’t get them.

That said, I’d never do that to my AD. I respect them too much. If anything, I’d take the new one as I like to have my name on the papers and sell the gray back. But it’s unlikely I’ll go through the trouble.

And fwiw, I doubt highly these Israelis care too much about how I feel about my purchase. But maybe.

I’m not in this game for money. If I were, I’d be suicudal. It’s a hobby. I’ve loved watches since I was a kid. The thrill is fading. But the love has remained.


Edit: I just reread your post. Trust me, while id have preferred to pay retail, Ive zero reason to make myself feel better.

I don’t spend money I don’t have. And once it’s gone, it’s gone. I love my watch. About to use it’s function while on a quick trip to Chicago. I would not have bought it if I needed to make myself feel better about it. That’s just not how I roll. I’ve got plenty of issues, that’s not one of them.

[BillA]

Originally Posted by Ichiran

Curious, I called the GM of this AD group earlier to ask him about this incident (I do have a relationship with this AD group). His reply was "A family member of the buyer has put up a WTS of his 5740 without his knowledge and approval. We have added said family member to our blacklist for future popular models."

To me, his answer was pure hogwash and it does not make much sense. There are several pictures of the watch, box and Cert in the WTS, and interested buyers can arrange to view the watch at any time. Indicated price was also negotiable. That WTS post appears to be from the owner of the watch.

This is a clear case of "capitalism wins" and this AD can continue to sell to his biggest whale, albeit with a sacrificial lamb in the form of a family member. I'm not sure if Patek buys his story though.

Why do you care what the buyer did with the watch?
If he wants to keep it, sell it or crush it, what business is it of yours?
Sounds like you are jealous you did not get the watch to flip.
Personally, I think you have a lot of nerve calling Patek. Who made you the Patek police?

[V25V]

Originally Posted by BillA

Why do you care what the buyer did with the watch?
If he wants to keep it, sell it or crush it, what business is it of yours?
Sounds like you are jealous you did not get the watch to flip.
Personally, I think you have a lot of nerve calling Patek. Who made you the Patek police?

+1. How can one not have better things to do with their time.