Tudor Snowflake help

[gmg_3]

Hi guys, have my eyes on a 68' Tudor snow flake black dial no date no bracelet. Seen 1 pic and looks like normal wear. I will post once I get more. I plan on having a AD check it for me. So here's my questions. What have these be selling for? What's a good bracelet to put on? Anything special to look for? Thanks again

[SAAS]

Assuming you are talking the 7016 they typically go for high three to mid fours depending on condition. This particular model is the most often faked snowflake IMO so be careful. It looks great on a nato or the tudor 9315 bracelet end links that fit are tudor 380 b or rolex 580 if I remember right

[drainaps]

Fakes galore, including fake cases with everything else pretty much original. Do NOT buy before a thorough assessment. And post pics here.

[gmg_3]

AD shouldn't have a problem id'ing a fake correct? They stated the jeweler could check it out and put a new seal on for $75. I was hoping to get a letter if I ever want to sell.

[Paul]

Serial numbers around 737xxx are commonly seen fakes. Just two weeks ago, number 737788 popped up on eBay.
That seller ( a well-regarded New Jersey dealer) withdrew it from sale as soon as he learnt he had a dud.

On a positive note, the 7016/0's are very cool watches with a growing following.
Rarest of all are those with the semi-pointed crown guards around S/N 622xxx (with '7528' on the case back).

And yes - perhaps $4k for a nice, clean (genuine) 7016/0.

[linesiders]

I see nearly half of the Tudor subs on Ebay are Fake, Franken, fake dial, or seriously err in listings. Best to post good pics. I'm gonna go see how many are faked right now.

[gmg_3]

I think the guy has a fake due to the below market price. Will see with pics and if he shows at the AD.

[linesiders]

Some of the fakes will fool an AD

Here is a quick run down of 7928/7016/21/941x on the Bay

Real 7016 / 7021

Real 7928
281211430828 - love it even with service Dial - don't love how they all have the same sweet patina. Bad insert
121210568652 - some concerns but legit but over priced (just my opinion)
111193322982 - like
290963740686


Real 9411/9410
261339676811
121220111276 Crusty Goodness
360792831445 BOING!
271313743170 - Photos have me on fence leaning legit
171171980345 - Photos have me on fence leaning legit
111193322982 - like
271243222919 - nice

Full or Partial Fake 7016 / 7021
261337873424 - crown guards are wrong or 7016
Full or Partial Fake 7928
141126415007
171058391230 - best 7016 service dial ever! (Ok, that may be the regular dial as they were in a small window IIRC)

Full or Partial Fake 9411/9410
131052742917 - just awful
28121331888 Dial maybe service - not sure - hands are fugly - might be whole thing is faked - not sure on CGs
370950768646 bad dial for starters - case looks OK, bezel is wrong
171109948856 - horrible dial - bad case polish as well
281123707022 - bad dial - rest might be OK for Pointy Crown Guard 7528/7016 (wrong hands)

Fake Parts:

Dial:
161161037817
261337908916
Admittted refinished

271167823135
271167817423

[gmg_3]

let me know what you guys think.

[Paul]

Pics loaded on behalf of the OP and they are all that are available at this time (followed by my thoughts - right or wrong )







DISCLAIMER: I'm just a learner and am always happy to be shot down in flames if I'm wrong.

CASE: Seems to me to be a healthy item with fat enough, sharp enough lugs. Plenty of scars and blemishes so if it's a fake, it's been around for a while anyway. I'm not seeing any glaring signs of case fake-ness but you fellas are better than me.

DIAL AND HANDS: Dial I'll leave to someone else. And the hands ..... perhaps it's the pic fooling me but are those hands really odd ? Fat, fat, fat and unusual positioning of the diamond on the sweep ? Almost seem to be more appropriate for a later generation 7021/0.

BRACELET: Adds some value if it is a genuine Rolex item. Could be a C&I rivet bracelet (no endlink stamps) but without pics of the clasp that's just an optimistic guess.


MOVEMENT: Seems to sport a correct ETA 2483 25 jewel movement but is it perhaps newer than the watch itself.
Is missing the usually seen Tudor Auto Prince stamping on the rotor.

[linesiders]

I'm going to be the dissenter here - GMG - you need better & clear photos. The photos are bad enough that they obscure some tells and fuzz out others.

Here are my thoughts:

Hands:
Minute hand luminous is too thick – usually about 2/3 as thick as hour hand – these look same thickness
Seconds sweep – square is too far out to the end – the north and south points of the diamond / square are supposed to intersect with the right edge of the 9’ marker – not slice halfway through.
Hour – tip should just intersect 6&9

Insert – might be fake might be real - there was an 80s Tudor insert that is close to that - need better pic

Dial: There are some variations but without clearer / better pics without any obstructed text – I call fake.
A in Mariner should be flat top – looks pointy but could be pics – a couple things are just off enough I’d want better photos Wehre the - is in A, the B length. We need shots from 10:10 with 15 seconds - top down & clear.

I don’t like the crown guards – could be the photo but from the front they look cut more tightly around the crown – from the back the creases are in the wrong place by just a little – not where they usually are when faked. The look in between the

Without a whole new set of photos with serial/ reg. profile shots on crown guards I am not convinced this real – but a real good fake. Real good.

I could be wrong – just crappy pics – but I’m certain the hands are bad and when one thing is bad and the rest obscured... IF it is a fake it is good enough to fool the average AD in the US.

[Paul]

Hey John,

Are you thinking the movement is correct ?
I say yes but possibly freshened up with a later rotor

And x 2 to the need for good macro pics of the serial number and reference number stampings.
Like I pointed out to the OP by PM, those stampings can be real giveaways if the case is bad.

[linesiders]

Hi Paul - not sure - can't make the details on the movement out well enough - at least later rotor but when hands and rotor are wrong, well...

GMG - like Paul says - we really need to see better photos. There is enough here I don't like that go could go either way. You said the price was cheap - that is even more reason to be concerned.

Clear serial / reference pics would help as well as clear pics on the band.

[SLS]

A quick observation. On older pieces, I always look for endlink wear, this is hard to fake and often overlooked. By the look of the strecthed bracelet, there should be some...I dont see any in these pictures. There are also a lot of tool marks by the lugs which seem odd to me.

[linesiders]

Great point, though a lot more Tudors left the dealers without bracelets so while a great tell on the Rolex, less of a tell on the Tudor

Can anyone make out crimps on the back of the crown?

[John in MA]

I'm not keen on this one.

Wrong movement for a 7016 or a 9401. Rotor is wrong if it's a 2483 as is the balance. Regulator is incorrect for a 2773 in a 9401.

2483


2773




Crown looks too tall. Hands from that angle look bad. Hour hand appears to be too long (tip of the hour hand should touch the 3, 6, 9 marker), minute hand looks too thick, and the second hand looks too long (square should bisect the tip of the 3, 6, 9 hour markers)



Not to mention snowflakes didn't start popping up with the 7016 till around 72.

[CrownMe]

Id say run.....run fast from this one. Its cheap for a reason my friend

[SLS]

Originally Posted by linesiders

Great point, though a lot more Tudors left the dealers without bracelets so while a great tell on the Rolex, less of a tell on the Tudor

Can anyone make out crimps on the back of the crown?

I did not know that, good info...thanks

[drainaps]

Fake vintagized Chinese case:
- Lug shape is a tell tale, look at the bottom right lug, too thick and wrong shape.
- Part of case covered by caseback is spanking new as per the picture. You cannot vintagize that easily.......
- Odd crown / crown guards
- Fake hands and fake rotor.

Dial cannot assess but with the previous points, who cares.

Run, and run fast.

[eparisini]

Take a look at this one... I saw it in person, it's genuine

http://orologi.forumfree.it/?t=67600539

[bplein]

wow, you guys are good. I learn something every day that I visit the vintage section here.

[box.erik]

Hey guys,

I'm new here, but I just want to commend you for the wealth of info/knowledge, that can be found in these forums. For instance, I just went and to buy this Snowflake, here in Toronto, but felt "off" about it, so I googled the serial #, which led me to this thread. See comment #5...


Thanks again!

[offrdmania]

Just looking at that engraving I see a fake. It sticks out a mile away. Look at this pic showing the difference in real and fake engraving. The case on the right is fake.

[alwayshere]

yes fake it is.