Given up on trying for a Rolex... please help me decide on my first big boy watch.

[Hogtown Fatty]

Originally Posted by Cabaiguan

The Speedy is not a settle. It IS superior to the Daytona in every way IMO. Don’t believe the hype.


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interesting, care to elaborate?
as i mentioned in my op, i've always preferred the aesthetic of the speedmaster, but always thought it was "next best" to the daytona in everything else. i know the rolex steel is slightly higher quality, but what all has the omega got up over the rolex?
this thread has really warmed me up to the omega and i'll likely grab the speedy pro (as linked above) to have as a daily and then get into something else i want as it becomes available.

[bdex75]

Originally Posted by vman

What you want to get is the "moonwatch" reference in the most pure form: Manual winding + hesalite crystal.



https://www.omegawatches.com/watch-o...31130423001005



This "bare bones" version will set you $3.5-4K back depending on where you buy. I'd buy brand new at an AD for the peace of mind or from a trusted seller here if you want to save some $. Honestly, get the best Speedy you can afford now in terms of warranty, condition, etc. If it stops speaking to you, put it in a drawer and let it sit there, then bring it back after a few weeks. This is the watch that some people ended up buying twice ;-)

This. Had one years ago and sold it.

A Speedy is manual wind, hesalite crystal. I did find the hesalite crystal charming and very warm but I spent a fair amount of time polishing scratches out of it.

This time around (about 5 years ago) I went with the First Omega in Space. Manual wind movement, sapphire crystal. Couldn’t be happier. This one goes no where. So much fun to put straps and nato’s on and just play. And can be had for $3500-$4000 all day long.


Only other one I have really listed after was the more recent snoopy. Totally awesome piece.


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[The Argonaut]

Sorry to hear of your tale of woe. There are many on the forum with a similar tale. However, many on the forum eventually got one of the “sought after” watches, be it Rolex, PP, FPJ, etc.

Have you considered vintage Rolex? I wear a 1675 GMT Master and absolutely love it. It’s my only watch. I’ve seen BLROs and the new Pepsi, and wouldn’t swop given the chance. Have a look at the Kermit (16610LV, not vintage yet, but a fantastic watch), GMT Master II (16710), or Explorer (16570). The last can be picked up easily for around $5-6k. All will get you into a wonderful Rolex piece with a story, and leave you cash in the bank for your next piece.




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[asiparks]

I have the big fat regular Blancpain Fifty fathoms, in steel and in one Gold, one of my favorite sports watches, very wearable and can be acquired from a TS for well under your $10k budget.

Love the Speedy Pro. Unfaultable. If anyone ever hates on Speedmaster, it's because they just don't know any better, so show them some compassion...
If you feel uncomfortable spending only $3.5K, try its slightly larger, updated cousin, the Racing Chronometer:


gets you a date and a better than COSC automatic movement for around $6K....

Did you see the JLC Polaris by chance ? I was just trying on the blue dialed version, it's gorgeous !

[tyler1980]

Originally Posted by Hogtown Fatty

I've been patient for three years now. I really don't care nearly enough to invest another ounce of energy into obtaining a watch. They will be more readily available someday and when that day comes I'll snatch one up. Until then I'll live happily with some other awesome watch.

not to sidetrack the thread, but im curious. What could you possibly have been waiting for three years for at this point? The scarcity is about a year for the US at least, don't know about canada but US AD's are literally a short drive across the border and almost everything was available a year ago w/o much of a wait, and two years ago availability even better.

The Daytona C has not been out 3 years yet, so it cant be that. March 2016. But i don't know anyone who got on a WL on day 1 who doesnt have it by now unless you have an exceptionally bad AD. If thats the case, i would suggest searching out a different AD.

[Hogtown Fatty]

Originally Posted by tyler1980

not to sidetrack the thread, but im curious. What could you possibly have been waiting for three years for at this point? The scarcity is about a year for the US at least, don't know about canada but US AD's are literally a short drive across the border and almost everything was available a year ago w/o much of a wait, and two years ago availability even better.

The Daytona C has not been out 3 years yet, so it cant be that. March 2016. But i don't know anyone who got on a WL on day 1 who doesnt have it by now unless you have an exceptionally bad AD. If thats the case, i would suggest searching out a different AD.

i got on the daytona list @ three different ad's here in toronto (damiani, raffi, and la difference) right when they came out-- okay, so god forgive me, not *exactly* three years to this day...--, same when sd43 came out. haven't gotten a call from any of them, not even for the sd43. while i was waiting on those i looked elsewhere and was told straight up those watches were only for big spenders, which i'm not- i just want a watch. but i've now learned that even getting on a list doesn't mean a thing and won't yield a watch.

define "almost everything" when you say that's what was available a year ago, because it sure as heck wasn't the case over here (toronto), or at any of the ad's i visited in the states/europe. actually, i guess you're right... almost everything (ym2, ex2, no date sub, black gmt, pm's, dd, etc.) was available, but i unfortunately was/am after the two or three more popular pieces. don't really care about the other stuff. why should i settle for a rolex other than the one i want? if i can't have it, i'll just go another route (which i now am). was just in vienna and yeah, saw a couple ss pieces in stock-- ex2 and blue sub--, but that's it. and a year ago i saw even less ss available. best i've seen here in toronto was a polar ex2 and black bezel gmt- not interested in either. a year ago the situation was not much different anywhere i went.

lucky you.

[tyler1980]

Originally Posted by Hogtown Fatty

i got on the daytona list @ three different ad's here in toronto (damiani, raffi, and la difference) right when they came out-- okay, so god forgive me, not *exactly* three years to this day...--, same when sd43 came out. haven't gotten a call from any of them, not even for the sd43. while i was waiting on those i looked elsewhere and was told straight up those watches were only for big spenders, which i'm not- i just want a watch. but i've now learned that even getting on a list doesn't mean a thing and won't yield a watch.

define "almost everything" when you say that's what was available a year ago, because it sure as heck wasn't the case over here (toronto), or at any of the ad's i visited in the states/europe. actually, i guess you're right... almost everything (ym2, ex2, no date sub, black gmt, pm's, dd, etc.) was available, but i unfortunately was/am after the two or three more popular pieces. don't really care about the other stuff. why should i settle for a rolex other than the one i want? if i can't have it, i'll just go another route (which i now am). was just in vienna and yeah, saw a couple ss pieces in stock-- ex2 and blue sub--, but that's it. and a year ago i saw even less ss available. best i've seen here in toronto was a polar ex2 and black bezel gmt- not interested in either. a year ago the situation was not much different anywhere i went.

lucky you.

ive seen BLNR, Hulk, SD43, all the LN professionals in US AD's 1 to 1.5 years ago. Available and for sale no strings. In Texas mostly as thats where i go a lot, but it was not that uncommon until fairly recently.

All i am saying, is getting relevant good AD recommendations from people who live relatively close to you or in a drivable distance may be worth exploring. Not going to help much at the present moment, but its going to get better in time. You were dealing with AD's who were not selling you watches when they were way easier to get so i would avoid them going forward.

2 years ago waiting 2 years for a BLNR (for example) would be unthinkable. It may be the case today, but thats a new development. I think you just got hosed by the AD's. Daytonas have always been tough, but almost everyone with a halfway decent AD has gotten one by now if they got on a list in 2016.

[Justindo]

It seems like you're all over the place in terms of what kind of sport watch you want and what you want to spend, which is fine, but you may want to really think about both the practical and the emotional aspects of your desired watch.

As for the practical, what do you want out of a watch? Will you be getting it wet? If so, only a watch with a screw-down crown will actually be waterproof, which eliminates a number of so-called diving watches and most of those on your list. Will you ever use a chronograph or a GMT function or a diving bezel? If not, do you really need a watch with these features? As for the emotional, is the watch you want mainly about the look and/or the brand rather than the watch's function? If so, that's fine, as looks and brand history and reputation is important to most people as well, myself included, but maybe` try to decide if that look is simple, complicated, or something in the middle. Finally, what watch(es) speak(s) to you? That really is the ultimate test. Don't settle for something that doesn't speak to you because it will be more expensive and time-consuming in the long-run.

Moving to the watches on your list, assuming I owned no other watches and assuming I couldn't sell it and had to keep and wear it, my choice would be the Speedmaster, hands down. Yes, it's probably the least expensive "real watch" on the market but it's also one of the best, regardless of price. I can't think of a watch that has more history and has aged better than the Speedmaster. I have the "sapphire sandwich" Professional version, which is easily available, under-priced, durable because of the sapphire crystal, and lovely due to the sapphire display back and upgraded movement. While I have over a dozen watches, some of which cost well over ten times what the Speedmaster costs, it's still among my favorite watches and I love wearing and using it. A Speedmaster should be welcome in any collection and would be a great and relatively inexpensive first watch that I can easily see one keeping forever, no matter what else is added to a collection. With the exception of being waterproof, it's every bit the equal of the Daytona and I would take a Speedmaster over a Daytona if I could only have one. Yes, Rolex uses more expensive steel than Omega with a higher nickel content, but it's not necessarily better steel, just different. Also, if Omega played Rolex's games, I think Speedmasters would be selling for more than Daytonas. A final point to consider is that the Daytona is officially the "Cosmograph Daytona" and it was originally just the "Cosmograph" because Rolex intended it to be their space watch. It didn't pass NASA's tests while the Speedmaster did, and currently does. Of course today's Daytona is very different than that chronograph, but that bit of history is something to consider. Remember that fifty years ago, Omega's watches were a level or two above Rolex. Today I'd say they are about on par with each other, with each brand having certain advantages over the other.

If you do purchase a Speedmaster, it won't take much out of your watch fund ($3k-$4k if you go gray market). When things calm down with Rolex, which they will due to the coming global recession, you can then add whatever model you want and you'll have a great two-piece collection.

[Hogtown Fatty]

came into the thread with a negative view of omega (except that i preferred the aesthetic to rolex) and coming away really wanting one. good job, guys- this is exactly what i needed. i will grab a speedy and cool my heels until the situation with rolex calms down.

i really like the standard speedmaster professional, but also really like the ultraman and 60th anniversary ones. like them all equally from an aesthetic standpoint. which would you guys suggest? i of course like some of the other editions as well (alaska project, snoopy, etc.), but don't want to have so much tied up in a speedy.

i've been watching some omega video reviews and they mention the watches don't feel as high quality as rolex or even tudor- is this true? i've tried on several rolexes at various ad's and yeah they felt good, but didn't jump out and just scream quality- just felt like a really solid watch. is the omega a markedly worse watch from a fit/finish standpoint or is this just stuff of nuance? only omega i've ever handled was a friends beat up old seamaster. another thing i read was the seamaster had a much better movement than the speedy. i do like some of the seamasters as well, but the speedy just has an aesthetic i've always adored so i'll be going that route.

thanks again for your help, really excited for this first big boy step. it's a lot cheaper than i thought this whole thing would cost me, but as mentioned i'll put the money aside until i can finally get my hands on a rolex. i don't feel like i'm 'settling' on omega after reading all your replies- genuinely excited. will post back once i've landed it- just need to decide which version to go with. i do like the orange accents of the ultraman a lot, but also really like the 'classic' speedy pro moon watch and the 60th anni, though i fear that one would wear too small on my huge wrist. oh and really dig the panda style speedy tuesday as well.

[Hogtown Fatty]

p.s. apologies of this is a silly question, but do all new/recent speedy's have the same movement?

i am thinking it's between the standard speedy pro, ultraman and 2017 speedy tuesday. would love the 60th, but just won't work on my wrist. what other editions do you guys recommend checking out? also, do the all the ones i mentioned have the hesalite?

[mps354]

I recommend that standard speedy pro with solid caseback and Hesalite crystal. For me, the simpler the better (though I must say, the speedy Tuesday versions are nice). All the same movement (1861) I believe

[Justice12]

I have to agree, all killer choices, if you don’t mind pre-owned, the VC chrono is a hell of a value, and I absolutely love Blancpain ( underrated). There’s no way I would support the market prices for these SS watches ( and I own some) no way paying over 20k for a steel Daytona, you can buy a gold one for that. I also dig the JLC you speak of. But out of the ones you spoke of I would go VC chrono, second BP. Have you looked at Bathyscaphe? Some came on bracelet. Good luck, there is a lot to be said about starting with a speedy tho. Lol

[astewartconst]

The first three on your list are absolute killers . I have the Jaeger deep sea vintage chrono and love it. Would like to add the memovox but feel like it would be a bit redundant.


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[tyler1980]

Originally Posted by Justice12

I have to agree, all killer choices, if you don’t mind pre-owned, the VC chrono is a hell of a value, and I absolutely love Blancpain ( underrated). There’s no way I would support the market prices for these SS watches ( and I own some) no way paying over 20k for a steel Daytona, you can buy a gold one for that. I also dig the JLC you speak of. But out of the ones you spoke of I would go VC chrono, second BP. Have you looked at Bathyscaphe? Some came on bracelet. Good luck, there is a lot to be said about starting with a speedy tho. Lol

its not the previous generation he is considering and have really not seen much data on the current one as far as preowned market. However i prefer the new one way more than the older model and the reverse panda in particular. The price is high, but in line with a ROO and IMO a nicer and more versatile watch. Is it worth it? maybe ...but its not cheap

I 100% would have one, if resale was not a concern. Because i tend to fall in and out of love with watches i hesitate on that one.

its kind of a centerpiece of a collection kind of watch where as every collection needs a speedy so i still lean toward speedmaster pro

[belligero]

Forget the other stuff. You’ll be happier in the long run with a Rolex than a substitute.

[benlee]

Originally Posted by Hogtown Fatty

i've been watching some omega video reviews and they mention the watches don't feel as high quality as rolex or even tudor- is this true? i've tried on several rolexes at various ad's and yeah they felt good, but didn't jump out and just scream quality- just felt like a really solid watch. is the omega a markedly worse watch from a fit/finish standpoint or is this just stuff of nuance? only omega i've ever handled was a friends beat up old seamaster. another thing i read was the seamaster had a much better movement than the speedy. i do like some of the seamasters as well, but the speedy just has an aesthetic i've always adored so i'll be going that route.

thanks again for your help, really excited for this first big boy step. it's a lot cheaper than i thought this whole thing would cost me, but as mentioned i'll put the money aside until i can finally get my hands on a rolex. i don't feel like i'm 'settling' on omega after reading all your replies- genuinely excited. will post back once i've landed it- just need to decide which version to go with. i do like the orange accents of the ultraman a lot, but also really like the 'classic' speedy pro moon watch and the 60th anni, though i fear that one would wear too small on my huge wrist. oh and really dig the panda style speedy tuesday as well.

I don't think Omega watches are in any way not as good as Rolex, and certainly better than Tudor. Not sure where you get the idea. And I am not even that big an Omega fan. However, Rolex watches are very well made and their strongest advantages are their reliability and resale value.


Check out the new 2018 Seamaster. Chances are you will be impressed. I got this watch few weeks ago and it's now my go-to timepiece monopolizing majority of my wrist time. And I own lots of watches ( yes, including Rolex ).



You can check out my incoming + pic thread in the omega forum.

https://www.rolexforums.com/showthread.php?t=646860

[belligero]

Except that they aren’t even as good as Tudor, let alone Rolex.

[SSCosmo]

As others have said, you can't really go wrong with a speedy pro, especially as a first "nicer" watch. It's a great looking watch with obvious historical significance. The movement is manual wind, not that accurate, and lacks some features that have become standard in better modern chronograph movements (e.g., vertical clutch, column wheel, and hacking), but that also adds to the charm of the watch.

That being said, it seems you've mainly been reading about most of these watches online and have not handled many in-person, and you're also looking at a very broad range of watches. Nothing wrong with that as we all have been there when we first started looking at nicer watches beyond Rolex. The best thing to do is to visit some ADs that carry the brands you're considering and handle the watches yourself. You'll notice the differences between different brands and price levels first-hand, and you'll also start finding out what you like and don't like. As great as Omega and Rolex watches can be, they really are not in the same league as watches from brands like VC, PP, AP, and Lange.

Originally Posted by Hogtown Fatty

Certain AP and Lange models interest me as well. Ideally would like to stay under $20-25k. I have read many bad things about AP though and that worries me... they don't seem to be very robust and seem to spend quite a bit of time in repair shops.

AP went through a rough patch with the reliability of some of their movements, particularly in some of the Royal Oak Offshores, a number of years ago, but I've not read of that many problems in the past couple of years. I have 3
APs and they have been fine. AP also increased their warranty to 5 years, so if you do run into problems, you'll be taken care of. In my experience, their service has been great, much better than other high end brands that I've dealt with. But if your primary considerations are reliability and value retention in a mechanical watch, it's really hard to beat Rolex.

[asiparks]

Originally Posted by belligero

Except that they aren’t even as good as Tudor, let alone Rolex.

your avatar makes me take your postings very seriously....

[SS Oyster]

How about VC Overseas Chrono?




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[mad_1974]

It is worth owning a Speedmaster Professional. There's a lot of options with just that watch, like the speedy tuesday version that won't make you feel like you are settling. Also, if the budget is $20-$25, you can always add a JLC dress watch, plenty to chose from. Lastly, don't give up on a Rolex; vintage or new, I've always been partial to a no-date sub. I like VC & I like the fifty fathoms. My living standards don't really allow me to go north of $10k (USD) since I can't be a one watch person. My eye wanders, and there's so much to like.

[tom2517]

Some of the watches you mentioned are nice, one could even argue better than Rolex, but Rolex is Rolex, in the end you will still want one.

[josephvman]

I’d go Speedy Pro or a Tudor, but the hot Tudors seem to be nearly as hard to get as some of the Rolex pieces. Or go for a Datejust, which is a must-have in any collection (as is the Speedy).

Regarding the Speedy being superior in every way to the Daytona, you couldn’t possibly own both and believe this. I have both and I’m a big Speedy fan, but with the exception of the history and faithfulness to the original moon watch, value, and lume, I can’t think of anything superior on the Speedy. Finishing, dial detail, movement, water resistance, bracelet...Daytona kills it. Newest Speedy has great presentation box!

The biggest appeal of the Speedy is that it’s basically the same watch today as it was when it landed on the moon. I love that aspect but to compare it with a modern Daytona is a losing proposition. Daytona has a bit of history as i’vee been told!

[Baco Noir]

The BP Fifty Fathoms is a beautiful watch, but buy used or at a discount to avoid a big loss if you change your mind. There is a new Titanium version with black dial coming out that's on my list for "someday" after they hit the secondary market.

https://monochrome-watches.com/the-b...w-in-titanium/

In all honesty, your post sounds like you won't be happy with anything other than one of the Rolex watches that you really want and you're just frustrated with the wait time and price on the secondary market. It's true for a lot of people right now.

I'd look at either a Tudor Black Bay or Heritage Chronograph, or the new Heuer Autavia. I have a BB and Autavia and both are great watches.

[usnwfu]

I'm actually in the same boat, after 2 years on a waitlist I've given up. They say build a relationship blah blah.... I spent too much time @ work sucking up to people that I'm not going to do that anymore in my personal life. At the end of the day there's plenty of other great pieces...

I'm considering a V2 VC ... If you like Panda... I'd highlyyy recommend the AP ROC Black as well (has panda). Speedy is on my list as well... if you go grey you might be able to pick up both AP ROC and a Speedy for 25k... 2 birds one stone??

[jjcthe1]

I dont understand nor will I ever understand someones inability to obtain a SS rolex (or pretty much any other watch). Its too easy these days to find a reputable dealer that can literally have the watch in your hands tomorrow. Will you get the "experience" of an "authorized dealer" placing a white glove on and padding your tushy? Probably not.

But who cares, the guy selling it to you isnt your friend, they wouldnt like you if you werent a potential buyer - its just business. Remove the emotion and buy wisely.

"Build a relationship"? What does that even mean? If you were broke, would you still have a relationship? Nope. Its therefore not a relationship, its a business transaction.

[Peterandwatches]

It feels like every serious collector has had a Speedmaster and eventually moved it. Maybe others can chime in, but I always assumed it’s a good intro piece, and usually gets sacrificed in a collection refresh.

[usnwfu]

I agree, imagine you wanted a mass produced luxury car and they said wait 2 years...or please buy a model we can't sell and you'll get it in a few months.

Not exactly apples to apples, but when we are shelling out this kind of money for a luxury item... you want a "happy" feeling that you can look back on even if it's 10 minutes. It's just feels bad all around, a normal business transaction is...

Company A advertises they have X for sale and Y price.
Customer wants X at Y price.
X gets sold to customer within a reasonable time frame.

When Rolex is pushing out PMs/DJ that's just purposely screwing with people. Believe if Apple saw that the Green iPhone sells 10x better than the Blue... they will up production on the Green within the hour.

Originally Posted by jjcthe1

I dont understand nor will I ever understand someones inability to obtain a SS rolex (or pretty much any other watch). Its too easy these days to find a reputable dealer that can literally have the watch in your hands tomorrow. Will you get the "experience" of an "authorized dealer" placing a white glove on and padding your tushy? Probably not.

But who cares, the guy selling it to you isnt your friend, they wouldnt like you if you werent a potential buyer - its just business. Remove the emotion and buy wisely.

"Build a relationship"? What does that even mean? If you were broke, would you still have a relationship? Nope. Its therefore not a relationship, its a business transaction.

[_speedmaster_]

Originally Posted by jjcthe1

I dont understand nor will I ever understand someones inability to obtain a SS rolex (or pretty much any other watch). Its too easy these days to find a reputable dealer that can literally have the watch in your hands tomorrow. Will you get the "experience" of an "authorized dealer" placing a white glove on and padding your tushy? Probably not.

But who cares, the guy selling it to you isnt your friend, they wouldnt like you if you werent a potential buyer - its just business. Remove the emotion and buy wisely.

"Build a relationship"? What does that even mean? If you were broke, would you still have a relationship? Nope. Its therefore not a relationship, its a business transaction.

Building a relationship with your AD is key. Not only will they move you up on lists for hard to get pieces, but they will be more apt to give you discounts. You don’t need to spend tens of thousands of dollars to have a relationship either. The best relationship I have with an AD is one where I only bought a Nomos. The people are super friendly and I typically stop in to just chat.

Also, try walking into a “reputable dealer” in NYC or London and asking for a SS sport Rolex. You’ll be laughed out of the store.

[jjcthe1]

Originally Posted by _speedmaster_

Building a relationship with your AD is key. Not only will they move you up on lists for hard to get pieces, but they will be more apt to give you discounts. You don’t need to spend tens of thousands of dollars to have a relationship either. The best relationship I have with an AD is one where I only bought a Nomos. The people are super friendly and I typically stop in to just chat.

Also, try walking into a “reputable dealer” in NYC or London and asking for a SS sport Rolex. You’ll be laughed out of the store.

As much as I would love to have a good relationship with my local dealer like i do with the local Mercedes dealer, its just not a reality when it comes to watches.

You dont need them, and they dont have anything you cant just get anywhere else (often faster, less expensive and better service) yet they act as if the "internet" is full of crooks in Africa suggesting payment via Western Union. Its insulting to my intelligence, and quite frankly without the "internet" I wouldn't have a career nor would this forum even exist.

The car is different because you need service, things happen and it just makes your life easier. It seams as though other local opportunities come up as well, meeting other small business owners, things for our charity and just general positive comradery that would never occur in any of the jewelry stores I have been in.

It acts almost the opposite in comparison to a watch purchase, you use the net to make sure the deal you are getting "locally" is good, then just do the deal locally. I order all of my cars, its almost always something obscure, hard to get, special order color etc. and they just love taking my business over and over again. Can you do that with a watch? Nope. Not without getting some BS story about how there is a shortage of stainless steel in Uganda and a prince needed silverware so you cant have your watch for 3 years......no way.

What do you mean "move you up on the list"??? Every single Rolex (for example) can be bought right now, with no list and it can be on your wrist within 36 hours. I cant think of 1 watch under 50k that you couldnt have inside that time frame.

As for NYC, you wont see me in that city unless I am making money, not spending it.

While I am sure there are ADs that genuinely care about the client, the percentage is tiny. They are there just like everyone else, to make money and move boxes.

To the OP, if you really want the Rolex, go on Chrono24, eBay etc, find it, google the sellers name, verify their reputation and send the payment. We are spoiled these days, Google does all of the due diligence for you, you just need to know which keys to stroke.

Rant over