Is a rare handcraft worth chasing?

[ToastedBanana]

So, recently had a conversation with my dealer about rare handcrafts. He suggested that I give the idea a thought and that they would try to help me to secure one, although no promises.

I’ve been researching them a lot lately and they are pieces of art, truly magnificent.

The more I think about it, the more I want to give it a shot. But the rational part of me holds me back.

I take comfort in knowing that the watches I purchase, more or less hold value. It’s not the most important part, but it’s a welcome side effect. I’m unsure of the supply and demand in this niche part of watch collecting.

The other rational part in me tells me that it’s a lot of money for something I won’t be wearing that much (although it makes the moments when I do wear it much more special).

Thoughts and opinions? Would you try and go after one?

[HMHM]

Depends on which rare handcrafts. Personally the one I’m really keen is the 5231G world time with the SEA map on it. Others not so much. If you are buying something which you like, then paying the price asked is more justified, and it’s also easier to stomach should the prices go down. Ultimately buy something you like first and foremost, from there onwards everything will straighten itself out.

[ToastedBanana]

Originally Posted by HMHM

Depends on which rare handcrafts. Personally the one I’m really keen is the 5231G world time with the SEA map on it. Others not so much. If you are buying something which you like, then paying the price asked is more justified, and it’s also easier to stomach should the prices go down. Ultimately buy something you like first and foremost, from there onwards everything will straighten itself out.

5231 is a really stunning watch, I’ve seen it once in person and the enamel dial is something else!

In this case, it would be a 5077/5089, so it’s something I’ve only seen at the exhibition in Geneva a couple of years ago and more recently in a vintage store while visiting Amsterdam.

[jon_jon]

The rare handcrafts are for true collectors and not for the average watch person, who are concerned about losing money on a watch if one wants/needs to sell it.

Typically ADs offer these watches to big collectors who already have rare pieces with their Patek collection numbering in the tens and/or hundreds.

Many of these rare handcrafts are unque pieces, but the market for them is small. So many will not retain value, although some will appreciate in value. It will depend on the piece.

[HMHM]

Originally Posted by ToastedBanana

5231 is a really stunning watch, I’ve seen it once in person and the enamel dial is something else!
In this case, it would be a 5077/5089, so it’s something I’ve only seen at the exhibition in Geneva a couple of years ago and more recently in a vintage store while visiting Amsterdam.

Yeah. The 5231 is something that is close to my heart because it’s a map of my country hence the personal significance to me.

I’m not too familiar with both the references that you gave. But a brief search on the Internet gave me a few pictures. Between the two I would prefer the 5077 below due to its nature theme. It’s a good dilemma to be in as both are rare pieces. Go with something that has personal meaning/significance and you will cherish it

419AA2B2-FECF-4DB5-BF83-210B57176D1A.jpeg

[vitalsigns]

Obviously depends on what you have and value, but I would prefer to chase something with more horological oomph (highly technical term), such as a perpetual calendar chronograph. The rare handcrafts are a bit of an acquired taste -- and they are not very discreet. I also don't prefer the case/broad flat bezel of the pieces, so I'd have to really be in love with the dial to pursue one. Finally, as someone else pointed out, although Patek's sale of them is highly limited by Patek itself, there is a small market for them in general, so I'd only buy if never reselling was a very high likelihood.

[VFA]

Originally Posted by jon_jon

The rare handcrafts are for true collectors and not for the average watch person, who are concerned about losing money on a watch if one wants/needs to sell it.

Typically ADs offer these watches to big collectors who already have rare pieces with their Patek collection numbering in the tens and/or hundreds.

Many of these rare handcrafts are unque pieces, but the market for them is small. So many will not retain value, although some will appreciate in value. It will depend on the piece.

Agreed. Not for you.

[maecenas]

Originally Posted by VFA

Agreed. Not for you.

I'm with them, and it's not about being rude or mean- those watches are for people who clearly know that they're for them.

It's possible the dealer is encouraging it because they think you have the potential to get one, and it would reflect well on them to deliver something like that. I honestly don't know how it works behind the scenes, but I've had dealers try to push me to application pieces, and I got the feeling it was as much (or more) for their standing with Patek as it was for mine...

[dauster]

Originally Posted by ToastedBanana

So, recently had a conversation with my dealer about rare handcrafts. He suggested that I give the idea a thought and that they would try to help me to secure one, although no promises.

I’ve been researching them a lot lately and they are pieces of art, truly magnificent.

The more I think about it, the more I want to give it a shot. But the rational part of me holds me back.

I take comfort in knowing that the watches I purchase, more or less hold value. It’s not the most important part, but it’s a welcome side effect. I’m unsure of the supply and demand in this niche part of watch collecting.

The other rational part in me tells me that it’s a lot of money for something I won’t be wearing that much (although it makes the moments when I do wear it much more special).

Thoughts and opinions? Would you try and go after one?

Why don't you just go for the 5231 - it's a rare handcraft and it holds value and is probably not as obscure to source as some zebra/ elephant/ monkey or bird that's 1/1 and you are competing with the VVVIPs. I personally love them including the animals and or the school of fish by Anita Porchet that was released last year. Also the 5117G-028 has the clous de paris like the 6119 on the bezel (since someone mentioned the smooth bezel is not to their liking) but realistically I would also like to save up for a 5270J, 5336P or the new salmon 5320G. rare handcraft (other than WT) seems like an end level piece when you have at least 10+ pateks.

cool post about the school of fish - one of my favorites https://www.watchprozine.com/patek-p...ion-/13791826/

[jon_jon]

Originally Posted by VFA

Agreed. Not for you.

If you have been around here on the Patek subforum for some time, you will know the Patek timepieces I own and may have also read about the Patek factory tour I wrote about back in 2017. However since you may be newer to Patek subforum here, I assume you took my comments in the wrong way.

Those of us who own enamel dial Pateks and have acquired Patek watches over time are not looking for the next "hype" watch. Patek often will offer watches like rare handcraft to those who they know are genuine collectors and are not looking to flip it for a profit. That is probably why an AD would offer one of these rare pieces to someone.

[ToastedBanana]

Originally Posted by dauster

Why don't you just go for the 5231 - it's a rare handcraft and it holds value and is probably not as obscure to source as some zebra/ elephant/ monkey or bird that's 1/1 and you are competing with the VVVIPs. I personally love them including the animals and or the school of fish by Anita Porchet that was released this year. Also the 5117G-028 has the clous de paris like the 6119 on the bezel (since someone mentioned the smooth bezel is not to their liking) but realistically I would also like to save up for a 5270J, 5336P or the new salmon 5320G. rare handcraft (other than WT) seems like an end level piece when you have at least 10+ pateks.

cool post about the school of fish - one of my favorites

Thank you for the article, fascinating.

I’m not actively looking for a new watch. I was in town and dropped by to catch up, and then they mentioned it. Currently, I’m down the rabbit hole that is enamel watches … reading articles and ordered some books. Even if I decide not to pursue, I learned something new and interesting.

Love the watches you’ve mentioned. I have the 5270P and the 5230 cream dial, two of my favourite pieces.

[ToastedBanana]

Originally Posted by jon_jon

If you have been around here on the Patek subforum for some time, you will know the Patek timepieces I own and may have also read about the Patek factory tour I wrote about back in 2017. However since you may be newer to Patek subforum here, I assume you took my comments in the wrong way.

Those of us who own enamel dial Pateks and have acquired Patek watches over time are not looking for the next "hype" watch. Patek often will offer watches like rare handcraft to those who they know are genuine collectors and are not looking to flip it for a profit. That is probably why an AD would offer one of these rare pieces to someone.

Hey Jon, I think your comment is more directed to me?

In that case, no office taken. It's the reason I came to the forum and started a discussion. Hoping people like yourself would chime in. I’m a hobby collector that loves watches and admires the passionate watch collectors.

Rereading my original post, I, the financial part/risk assessment is more part of the job that flows over.

I tend to see myself as a collector of all watches and sorts, but the rare handcrafts feels like something all together and gives me the feeling when purchased my first high end watch. It’s something new to me and makes me feel like a child again… I’m probably over romanticising things but you get the gist :-)

Information is scarce on these pieces, I will check your posts later tonight and if there’s anything else you’d like to share, please do.

[Ubiquitous1984]

Originally Posted by dauster

Why don't you just go for the 5231 - it's a rare handcraft and it holds value and is probably not as obscure to source as some zebra/ elephant/ monkey or bird that's 1/1 and you are competing with the VVVIPs. I personally love them including the animals and or the school of fish by Anita Porchet that was released last year. Also the 5117G-028 has the clous de paris like the 6119 on the bezel (since someone mentioned the smooth bezel is not to their liking) but realistically I would also like to save up for a 5270J, 5336P or the new salmon 5320G. rare handcraft (other than WT) seems like an end level piece when you have at least 10+ pateks.

cool post about the school of fish - one of my favorites https://www.watchprozine.com/patek-p...ion-/13791826/

Thanks for sharing that amazing link. Some incredible pieces on display! How much would one of these amazing watches cost?!

[dauster]

Originally Posted by ToastedBanana

Thank you for the article, fascinating.

I’m not actively looking for a new watch. I was in town and dropped by to catch up, and then they mentioned it. Currently, I’m down the rabbit hole that is enamel watches … reading articles and ordered some books. Even if I decide not to pursue, I learned something new and interesting.

Love the watches you’ve mentioned. I have the 5270P and the 5230 cream dial, two of my favourite pieces.

Amazing, you have two of my favorite watches - I am guessing that you have the salmon version and not the new green one, right? Also, one of my biggest regrets is that I passed on the 5230G cream dial about 2 years ago when it was available pre-owned by my AD - 60k back then (at least better than passing on the 15400 blue dial at the boutique in vegas in 2015:)

Re rare handcrafts, I would be curious to know how the allocation works since there are so few available? Do you just try and get specific models and only apply for those or do you put your name down and they maybe offer you one they deem you worthy of?

[dauster]

Originally Posted by Ubiquitous1984

Thanks for sharing that amazing link. Some incredible pieces on display! How much would one of these amazing watches cost?!

I heard (on the internet so don't rely on it) about 90k swiss franks but I am guessing it depends on which exact model and whether it has diamonds or any other complications - also wonder if wood marquetry is more expensive than let's say cloisonee enamel.

[SoylentGreenChi]

Originally Posted by HMHM

Depends on which rare handcrafts. Personally the one I’m really keen is the 5231G world time with the SEA map on it. Others not so much. If you are buying something which you like, then paying the price asked is more justified, and it’s also easier to stomach should the prices go down. Ultimately buy something you like first and foremost, from there onwards everything will straighten itself out.

Wholeheartedly agreed with this, and told my AD I would love the 5231G world time, particularly because the new release has an area of the world depicted where I have family roots.

[Pw92676]

Originally Posted by jon_jon

The rare handcrafts are for true collectors and not for the average watch person, who are concerned about losing money on a watch if one wants/needs to sell it.

Typically ADs offer these watches to big collectors who already have rare pieces with their Patek collection numbering in the tens and/or hundreds.

Many of these rare handcrafts are unque pieces, but the market for them is small. So many will not retain value, although some will appreciate in value. It will depend on the piece.

Brilliant reply, I wholeheartedly agree.

[DonLee]

rare handcraft watches usually do retain value simply because you can't buy one unless you have bought several patek pieces already, and you need to have a good standing with the company.

I think it's important that the rare handcraft watch speaks to you. The new world timer would appeal to a lot of people but it has a map of Asia. Would feel weird if you lived in NA and Europe and always only saw a picture of the other side of the world when you looked at your watch. Some of the other handcraft watches are really colorful, with green leaves or it's bling bling etched white gold. If the watch speaks to you, it'll feel so much more special than the generic hype stuff. If it doesn't, then it'll get very little wrist time.

[Ichiran]

I love the enamelled ones and if my AD ever calls me, the decision making will be over in 1s.

Two of the 2022 5089s.
Patek-Philippe-Rare-Handcrafts-Exhibition-2022-5089G_089-Cortina-Watch.jpg

Patek-Philippe-Rare-Handcrafts-Exhibition-2022-5089G_109-Cortina-Watch.jpg

[dauster]

Originally Posted by Ichiran

I love the enamelled ones and if my AD ever calls me, the decision making will be over in 1s.

Two of the 2022 5089s.
Attachment 1302624

Attachment 1302625

Love the green dial leaf one - so amazing just as the chameleon one or two they made so cool. One day …


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[Mini2]

I like the plane

[Partekular]

Such pieces are niche works of art. Personal treasures are not necessarily readily marketable commodities. The dome table clocks and such wonders as the Toucan 992/132J pocket watch, as illustrated in the Rare Handcrafts 2019 catalogue, are gorgeous - but taste is wholly subjective.

See if your AD will let you have a Rare Handcraft catalogue or write to PP and ask. Amazing creations.

[subtona]

Details needed

[Mini2]

Check the website - all new hand crafts 2022 are up

[Ichiran]

Originally Posted by Mini2

Check the website - all new hand crafts 2022 are up

Thanks for sharing - just saw all the pieces digitally. They are stunners!

[scurfa]

The new magazine has an article regarding rare handicrafts also




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