I'm definitely getting a 5522A, Wait a minute I'm not getting a 5522A?!?!?!?!

[Russell996]

Originally Posted by kultschar

Ha - this did cross my mind with this thread!

I guess in UK they wouldn't be able to stop you with consumer laws etc??????

Not sure a refund would fly in the UK - exchange in most cases based on store policy. I don’t believe there are any rights in law beyond a faulty product being replaced/refunded.

[tyler1980]

Originally Posted by brandrea

Does anyone from Govberg belong to this forum? Maybe they'd like to comment

yes they do... they are reading the thread right now. Look at the bottom. Pledge member.

[Russell996]

Originally Posted by tyler1980

yes they do... they are reading the thread right now. Look at the bottom

[HorologyK]

Originally Posted by kultschar

Hmm one would think some are going out the back door, around the block and back in the front door if that’s the case

Exactly. Very unethical and goes back to the OP's initial post. Clearly company wide.

[remz07twos]

Originally Posted by tyler1980

yes they do... they are reading the thread right now. Look at the bottom. Pledge member.

Never once cared to look at the reader list. Glad somebody does.

[incontrol]

Originally Posted by tyler1980

yes they do... they are reading the thread right now. Look at the bottom. Pledge member.

That is awesome! They should know exactly what we all think. Terrible way to do business.


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[RussW]

Originally Posted by brandrea

Does anyone from Govberg belong to this forum? Maybe they'd like to comment

I don’t think anything they say could excuse their behaviour. They’d just be digging a bigger hole.

[JorgeCCW]

Originally Posted by GB-man

With respect to George at Govberg he was kind enough to return my email and give me the honest truth that they were all spoken for. I had only bought one Patek from him so I was expecting that answer and cool with it.

Originally Posted by Socal to az

What’s his email? I’d be happy to share my thoughts with him re the extortion they tried to pull.

I have to say something here , I am not George biggest fan, I think his prices on the preowned market are out of reality , but in his defense he wasn’t involved in the extortion at all (at least to my knowledge)


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[tyler1980]

Originally Posted by JorgeCCW

I have to say something here , I am not George biggest fan, I think his prices on the preowned market are out of reality , but in his defense he wasn’t involved in the extortion at all.


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i don't agree with that word either. Shady, unethical, dishonest, exploitative would be better. Extortion implies a crime and muddles the argument.

Just speaking to this transaction individually, not the person, as not everyone may have known. If its a trend though and not an isolated incident, they all know about it.

[brandrea]

Originally Posted by tyler1980

yes they do... they are reading the thread right now. Look at the bottom. Pledge member.

Well it would be nice if they chimed in here with a reply - no?:

[GB-man]

Originally Posted by Socal to az

What’s his email? I’d be happy to share my thoughts with him re the extortion they tried to pull.

Look him up. I don’t believe he is hiding. George is in sales he’s not an owner. No reason to drag him into this. He doesn’t work at that location.

Originally Posted by JorgeCCW

I have to say something here , I am not George biggest fan, I think his prices on the preowned market are out of reality , but in his defense he wasn’t involved in the extortion at all (at least to my knowledge)


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Indeed.

[lapince]

Originally Posted by dmash

Yeah, that's a joke. If you go into practically any Patek AD without wearing any watch and dressed normally, you'd get laughed at under your breath as if 'do they know the retail price?'. Good idea on paper TS but you've got ADs turning off collectors, how do you think they're going to treat 'normal 30 year old wanting his first watch and decided on Patek'.

Well they are total morons, a good seller knows that the costume doesn't make the monk like we say in France, I met people who didn't have nice watches or nice clothes but who weighed 20-30 million, but most salespeople are total idiots, and their management as well...

[tng11]

Originally Posted by tyler1980

I don't even think they need to make more watches, just don't target new buyers with a LE. As much as i like the 5522 if it was not a LE and regular production there would not be nearly as much hype around it. Might have to wait, but you would get it.

Precisely. Or make it an application-like system for these SS pieces and control allocation from head office. They could withhold the papers for 5 years for all I care if that would screen out flippers. I wouldn't mind writing about my horological journey and progression to Patek, for instance, nor would I mind waiting a year or two if there was a fair, structured system to obtain it (people who want it sooner could go to the grey market.)

Instead, I am becoming ever more frustrated in having to be laughed at by multiple ADs, being told that I am not important/worthy enough to buy the $33,000 watch I like. I'm sure people love being insulted and humiliated when trying to buy a luxury good like that (I realize this happens with Daytonas, Birkins, etc.), and it at least in part ties back to the crazy grey market prices and flippers. Eliminating the flippers and selling to genuine enthusiasts could be a better long-term strategy. Of course, I'm just blowing smoke out of my rear end - Patek is also likely a brilliant marketers by making SS pieces rare, and therefore very desirable/prestigious to collectors as well.

[CRDMMW]

Originally Posted by remz07twos

Never once cared to look at the reader list. Glad somebody does.

I don’t ever pay attention to it either. This is great. Been following this thread since it started. Mike, sorry for what happened. Terrible business ethics in my opinion.


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[tyler1980]

Originally Posted by tng11

Precisely. Or make it an application-like system for these SS pieces and control allocation from head office. They could withhold the papers for 5 years for all I care if that would screen out flippers. I wouldn't mind writing about my horological journey and progression to Patek, for instance, nor would I mind waiting a year or two if there was a fair, structured system to obtain it (people who want it sooner could go to the grey market.)

Instead, I am becoming ever more frustrated in having to be laughed at by multiple ADs, being told that I am not important/worthy enough to buy the $33,000 watch I like. I'm sure people love being insulted and humiliated when trying to buy a luxury good like that (I realize this happens with Daytonas, Birkins, etc.), and it at least in part ties back to the crazy grey market prices and flippers. Eliminating the flippers and selling to genuine enthusiasts could be a better long-term strategy. Of course, I'm just blowing smoke out of my rear end - Patek is also likely a brilliant marketers by making SS pieces rare, and therefore very desirable/prestigious to collectors as well.

two points here.

1. My AD does this. No wait lists and only sells to known clients they have to know you so that usually does mean you buy other things over a period of time. Im sure there is a list but its not an open list to anyone.
2. My full address is on my certificate of origin. If I'm a flipper I'm not sure i would want 50 people knowing where i live. I know other places just put names.

[Socal to az]

Originally Posted by JorgeCCW

I have to say something here , I am not George biggest fan, I think his prices on the preowned market are out of reality , but in his defense he wasn’t involved in the extortion at all (at least to my knowledge)


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Use whatever word you want, I dont care.

If you want to sell preowned watches at a premium - go for it. The free market will determine prices.

If you want to charge a premium for new pieces - be upfront about it.

But dont promise someone a new watch and at the last minute try to change the deal.

Shady.

I get Govbergs emails. I even considered buying something from them. But frankly, I have zero intention to do so and would be happy to share my thoughts with them- even though by reading this thread they probably already know.

[JorgeCCW]

Originally Posted by tyler1980

two points here.



1. My AD does this. No wait lists and only sells to known clients they have to know you so that usually does mean you buy other things over a period of time

2. My full address is on my certificate of origin. If I'm a flipper I'm not sure i would want 50 people knowing where i live. I know other places just put names.

LOL



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[mfer]

My 2 cents.

The mistake was “the promise” and then “the ask” (the extra purchase). It was further insulting by the non-personal follow up call.

Regarding the selling of watches over market and the ask to buy other stuff, it happens all the time and not just in watches. I don’t like it, but accept it for what it is. Basically there are enough filthy rich people in the world that this will always happen. Are greys bad? Don’t think so. They can help these ADs move some of their slower product that the ADs are forced to buy. People seem to love greys when they can get them watches at better prices...

My comments are more of a logical response, I don’t like it, but it is what it is.

[tyler1980]

Originally Posted by JorgeCCW

LOL



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see. Liam Neeson is creepy. Im not selling my Pateks (or starting a Patek reselling business)because this will happen and he would have my address. Flipping problem solved.

[RussW]

Originally Posted by tyler1980

yes they do... they are reading the thread right now. Look at the bottom. Pledge member.

[AK797]

Originally Posted by mfer

The mistake was “the promise” and then “the ask” (the extra purchase). It was further insulting by the non-personal follow up call.

Sounds like a Miramax audition...

[mfer]

Originally Posted by AK797

Sounds like a Miramax audition...

Sorry, I don’t follow what you are saying/implying.

[CRDMMW]

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[KarlS]

The term extortion is often used metaphorically to refer to usury or to price-gouging, though neither is legally considered extortion. It is also often used loosely to refer to everyday situations where one person feels indebted against their will, to another, in order to receive an essential service or avoid legal consequences.

[Socal to az]

Originally Posted by kultschar

As a newcomer to PP it makes absolutely no sense to me if Stern is saying one of the purpose's of the 5522 is to attract new / young people to the brand i.e. people with no Patek relationship when its a limited edition.

Its like Rolex saying the 116500 was produced for newcomers.

If Patek truly wants to attract a younger clientele for the future, its very easy- make watches that appeal to the younger clientele. And you dont have to change your business model or reduce prices or anything. There are a lot of Calatravas that are IMHO dated- Make a 42mm Calatrava - dont change anything else in the watch except maybe update the markers- you will have a younger group lining up.

the fact is that brand is super popular right now despite all the consternation here on the forum about their direction. ADs are taking advantage of this and the booming economy to gouge their clients.

Im actually curious as to what will happen at the next economic downturn. When times get tough- the last thing on my mind is what watch is on my wrist.

[benlee]

Originally Posted by tng11

Precisely. Or make it an application-like system for these SS pieces and control allocation from head office. They could withhold the papers for 5 years for all I care if that would screen out flippers. I wouldn't mind writing about my horological journey and progression to Patek, for instance, nor would I mind waiting a year or two if there was a fair, structured system to obtain it (people who want it sooner could go to the grey market.)

Instead, I am becoming ever more frustrated in having to be laughed at by multiple ADs, being told that I am not important/worthy enough to buy the $33,000 watch I like. I'm sure people love being insulted and humiliated when trying to buy a luxury good like that (I realize this happens with Daytonas, Birkins, etc.), and it at least in part ties back to the crazy grey market prices and flippers. Eliminating the flippers and selling to genuine enthusiasts could be a better long-term strategy. Of course, I'm just blowing smoke out of my rear end - Patek is also likely a brilliant marketers by making SS pieces rare, and therefore very desirable/prestigious to collectors as well.

I cannot understand this. Why subject yourself to such treatment? Walk away or buy another brand. Clearly they don't want your business and neither do you need them. There are many watch brands making watches just as nice as PP and will give you far better treatment as a customer. Unless you are getting them purely for their potential "investment" value and/or bragging rights.

For the OP, sorry for what you have gone thru. Its unethical for your AD to lie to you. But imo, no big deal. The 5522a is grossly overhyped. Purely as a watch its nothing special imo. I hope you find another better AD.

[Socal to az]

Originally Posted by benlee

I cannot understand this. Why subject yourself to such treatment? Walk away or buy another brand. Clearly they don't want your business and neither do you need them. There are many watch brands making watches just as nice as PP and will give you far better treatment as a customer. Unless you are getting them purely for their potential "investment" value and/or bragging rights.

For the OP, sorry for what you have gone thru. Its unethical for your AD to lie to you. But imo, no big deal. The 5522a is grossly overhyped. Purely as a watch its nothing special imo. I hope you find another better AD.

I agree with the first part. Just move on. I had a similar experience trying to buy the new Porsche GT3. The dealer went on and on about how it’s limited, so difficult to get, I haven’t bought a bunch of Porsche’s etc etc. I looked him in the eye and said- no problem- I understand you don’t want to sell to me. I guess I’ll just have to stick to buying Ferrari’s and Mclarens and walked out.

Went to another dealer and got a gt3.

Too many good cars, good watches to play games with these idiots. Having said that- the op was promised something and they changed the deal. Totally not cool.


As far as to the second part- I would say the 5522 is not hyped enough. It’s been known to regrow hair on balding men. I’m not only an owner of the 5522, but also a client!

[remz07twos]

Originally Posted by Socal to az

I agree with the first part. Just move on. I had a similar experience trying to buy the new Porsche GT3. The dealer went on and on about how it’s limited, so difficult to get, I haven’t bought a bunch of Porsche’s etc etc. I looked him in the eye and said- no problem- I understand you don’t want to sell to me. I guess I’ll just have to stick to buying Ferrari’s and Mclarens and walked out.

Went to another dealer and got a gt3.

Too many good cars, good watches to play games with these idiots. Having said that- the op was promised something and they changed the deal. Totally not cool.


As far as to the second part- I would say the 5522 is not hyped enough. It’s been known to regrow hair on balding men. I’m not only an owner of the 5522, but also a client!

Your analogy doesn’t match though, it would be like being told you had to buy a fully loaded panamera when you went in to pay for your gt3. Obviously OP will be moving on from Govberg, but it’s not like he can go to another dealer and buy one at this point.

[benlee]

Originally Posted by Socal to az

As far as to the second part- I would say the 5522 is not hyped enough. It’s been known to regrow hair on balding men. I’m not only an owner of the 5522, but also a client!

then I have no need for the 5522a as I am not bald

[Socal to az]

I understand it’s not an exact analogy- I’m making a point that while economy is good- the high end retailers are getting cocky. No need for that- just move on- plenty of things to waste money on.