What does the new Pelagos mean for the old version?

[handsfull]

Originally Posted by kooltzar

The Accutron does not have a very common ¨widespread movemnt, on the contrary, it is a special rare movement

They PRODUCED tons of them

But I give up man - you win. If you think you 'know' what will be collectible and what will not...your the modern day 'Great Carnac'

[kooltzar]

Originally Posted by JDR888

Totally agree.

As I mentioned in my previous post - I'm not or have never been a movement snob

Watchmaking is about movements! That is the heart of a watch.

[JDR888]

Originally Posted by kooltzar

I think we should just agree on that you don't buy a Tudor for investment, but because you like it.

Agree - but neither did the buyers of a new 5512, 5513, 1665, 1680's etc etc and look where they went??

Before I get hammered - I'm certainly not suggesting in any way whatsoever that a Tudor would do the same as the above but you can never be dismiss the future value of anything - only time will tell (pardon the pun)!!!

[jp1166610]

It means you will soon be able to pick the older model up at a good discount!

[kooltzar]

Originally Posted by handsfull

They PRODUCED tons of them

But I give up man - you win. If you think you 'know' what will be collectible and what will not...your a modern day 'Great Carnac'

Tons are relative. The ETA 2824 you find in basically all watches that have no inhouse movements, even all the non quartz Swatches house it. There must be a reason why the Rolexes, Pateks, AP's, Jaegers, Vacherons and Langes have a higher value than all the other brands.

[Maxy]

Originally Posted by JDR888

Fast forward 20 years and I'd much rather have a WIS conversation about my twenty year old Pelagos along the lines of "But this is an ETA movement Pelagos with a 2 line dial and ETA movement - they only made them for a couple of years"

I'd like to add one more point for your discussion 20 yrs down the road.

You know, this is the original Pelagos when even the name was not on the dial, like you know, early Submariners and Explorers, which didn't had Submariner, Explorer written on its dial.

[handsfull]

Originally Posted by kooltzar

Tons are relative. The ETA 2824 you find in basically all watches that have no inhouse movements, even all the non quartz Swatches house it. There must be a reason why the Rolexes, Pateks, AP's, Jaegers, Vacherons and Langes have a higher value than all the other brands.

First off, there are MANY grades of ETA movements.

Second, the reason for the higher values are based highly on 'branding' and 'marketing' based both on history and provenance.

[kooltzar]

Look, I am Swiss, this is our industry. We can get very exited about the technicalities of movements. Dials are more the jewlery part of this, so secondary. Maybe that is different for you Americans, but for us Swiss watchmaking is about the technical part of it. That is why we mainly collect watches with inhouse movements (which in the past more brands had then nowadays).

[JDR888]

Originally Posted by kooltzar

Watchmaking is about movements! That is the heart of a watch.

I'll readily admit movements are a part of watchmaking but watchmaking is a sum of all parts brought together resulting in the finished article - a wristwatch.

It's kinda of like saying, car making is about the engine and not the finished product.

Definition of watchmaking is the making or repairing of watches/clocks - not exclusively specific to movements.

[kooltzar]

Would you rather own an IWX Mark XI (old one with inhouse) or a Mark XVII (new one with ETA)? Would you rather have an Omega Speedmaster with the famous Omega 321 caliber or the new one which looks more or less the same? Would you rather colect a Tudor 7928 sub with 390 cal. or a 7016 with the same dial, but the ETA movement?.....
And have you compared the respective prices?...I think the vintage market speaks for itself

[JDR888]

Originally Posted by Maxy

I'd like to add one more point for your discussion 20 yrs down the road.

You know, this is the original Pelagos when even the name was not on the dial, like you know, early Submariners and Explorers, which didn't had Submariner, Explorer written on its dial.

Looking forward to that discussion already - just don't want to wish my life away that's all.

[handsfull]

Originally Posted by kooltzar

Look, I am Swiss, this is our industry. We can get very exited about the technicalities of movements. Dials are more the jewlery part of this, so secondary. Maybe that is different for you Americans, but for us Swiss watchmaking is about the technical part of it. That is why we mainly collect watches with inhouse movements (which in the past more brands had then nowadays).

LOL. I'm American, but 100% German. I'm ALL ABOUT mechanical items in general - that is 'our' industry- LOL. Im all about perfection and detail - function first. That said, your mixing 'value' in as an absolute....that's not possible when it comes to human beings. I hate it as much as you do, but that is a fact. What you value and what others value will always differ. I wouldn't pay $10 for a old Beatles record - some would throw there months income at it

[kooltzar]

Originally Posted by JDR888

I'll readily admit movements are a part of watchmaking but watchmaking is a sum of all parts brought together resulting in the finished article - a wristwatch.

It's kinda of like saying, car making is about the engine and not the finished product.

Definition of watchmaking is the making or repairing of watches/clocks - not exclusively specific to movements.

An if you just house a non self developed and non self produced movement than your product is also not complete and you are just a watch framer and not a watchmaker. Or are you happy with a Ford engine in a Mercedes or BMW?

[JDR888]

Originally Posted by handsfull

LOL. I'm American, but 100% German. I'm ALL ABOUT mechanical items in general - that is 'our' industry- LOL. Im all about perfection and detail - function first. That said, your mixing 'value' in as an absolute....that's not possible when it comes to human beings. I hate it as much as you do, but that is a fact. What you value and what others value will always differ. I wouldn't pay $10 for a old Beatles record - some would throw there months income at it

+1.

To add - it's about perceived value and everyone's perception of value will differ whether it's a watch or an old Beatles record.

I have plenty of friends who wouldn't drop £400 on a watch let alone £4000 and they look at me like I'm mad. To progress that conversation with them over the movement and they'd be reaching for the straight-jacket!! Flip-side I look at their spending on family holidays and I shudder at the cost - perceived value!!

[JDR888]

Originally Posted by kooltzar

An if you just house a non self developed and non self produced movement than your product is also not complete and you are just a watch framer and not a watchmaker. Or are you happy with a Ford engine in a Mercedes or BMW?

No but I'm happy with my Audi diesel engine in my Skoda.

[kooltzar]

I can agree on all that.

Here we only discussed whether the exact same model of a watch will have more value because of the fact it has a mass produced replaced after 2 years by in house movement.

[kooltzar]

missed word: movement

[kooltzar]

Originally Posted by JDR888

No but I'm happy with my Audi diesel engine in my Skoda.

I would be happy as well, but I would not expect that car to become a collectable item.

[kooltzar]

..on the other hand I would hate an Opel engine in a Porsche

[JDR888]

And you are entitled to your opinion and I'm entitled to mine - and respectfully it doesn't mean we have to agree.

Differing opinions enliven debate and I'm all for that.

[JDR888]

Originally Posted by kooltzar

..on the other hand I would hate an Opel engine in a Porsche

Or a Volkswagen engine in a Porsche?? Oh hang on a minute, I think that one has already been done.................

[handsfull]

Originally Posted by kooltzar

Here we only discussed whether the exact same model of a watch will have more value because of the fact it has a mass produced replaced after 2 years by in house movement.

True, but I don't think we've gotten any further

Seriously tho, I think some will find (perceive - thanks JDR!) the ETA movement as 'more' valuable in the future. It will depend HIGHLY upon Tudors new movement reliability record and 'perceived' quality.

Remember how excited everyone was about the Omega Coaxial when it was first released? Wasn't so great a year later = http://youtu.be/sC75aU47GRk

Found another one = http://youtu.be/1ytCEuuW2_A

[kooltzar]

I just see how prices for Black Bays and Pelagos' have already come down 20% to 30% here since their "spectacular" release in 2012 and personally, I don't think that the old Pelagos version will re-jump in value.

[kooltzar]

Back to square1. :-)

[Josh36912]

Originally Posted by JDR888

I'd love to revisit this thread in 10/20/30 years time to see how it's played out??



Going back to the crux of the thread, keep what you've got and remember that what you've got in its current form (movement & 2-liner dial) will not be made any more and has only had a production run of 2/3 years max.



The in-house movement is here for keeps.



Fast forward 20 years and I'd much rather have a WIS conversation about my twenty year old Pelagos along the lines of "But this is an ETA movement Pelagos with a 2 line dial and ETA movement - they only made them for a couple of years"

Hit the nail on the head here

[handsfull]

Originally Posted by kooltzar

I would be happy as well, but I would not expect that car to become a collectable item.

Doubt he bought the Skoda for the 'collectability'

Originally Posted by JDR888

Or a Volkswagen engine in a Porsche?? Oh hang on a minute, I think that one has already been done.................

[Sherpa23]

I love mine and I didn't buy it as an investment so I don't care what it's worth. Here it is with my DSSD. As you can see, they're fairly similar in size.

[handsfull]

I will say this.....IF Tudor lowers the price on the ETA Pelago's to $2500.....I will be the first to say it will be THE best deal I've seen on a watch in over 20 years.






That said, I wouldn't hold your breath. LOL

[duggerdean]

I can't imagine the eta holding it's value, especially when the in-house is priced so fairly. Honestly, this has me thinking about flipping my black bay as I expect it's next to go in-house.

[JDR888]

Originally Posted by handsfull

Doubt he bought the Skoda for the 'collectability'

Cheeky

I bought the Skoda because it does everything (for me at least) a VW Golf GTI does without the sticker price. vRS has same power, same engine, same build quality etc etc.