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Old 21 April 2018, 11:57 AM   #1
VC8
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Patek 5164a worth the premium?

Hi - I am getting a Patek 5164a offered at $36k. A bit of a premium versus the retail and given how hard they are now to access. What are everyone’s thoughts at that price? Worth the premium and do you think this will appreciate in value? Thanks
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Old 21 April 2018, 12:01 PM   #2
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Patek 5164a worth the premium?

Based on the current market - I don’t think that is a real ‘premium’ as retail is $34,020 usd...

If it’s what you’re after -buy it!

As far as appreciation goes - I never buy a watch expecting value to increase. That’s the unanswerable question!


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Old 21 April 2018, 12:01 PM   #3
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Patek 5164a worth the premium?

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Old 21 April 2018, 12:02 PM   #4
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Originally Posted by VC8 View Post
Hi - I am getting a Patek 5164a offered at $36k. A bit of a premium versus the retail and given how hard they are now to access. What are everyone’s thoughts at that price? Worth the premium and do you think this will appreciate in value? Thanks


What’s the condition of the watch? BNIB? Used? Complete? Do you trust the seller?

Regarding future value? No one knows.
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Old 21 April 2018, 12:08 PM   #5
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Hi - I am getting a Patek 5164a offered at $36k. A bit of a premium versus the retail and given how hard they are now to access. What are everyone’s thoughts at that price? Worth the premium and do you think this will appreciate in value? Thanks
If you're talking 36k USD....NO. If you're buying and one of your considerations is appreciation in value, i suggest to get the base model 5167a, but that's just me.

Ps. 5164 is one helluva watch if you compare it with a 5167

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Old 21 April 2018, 12:11 PM   #6
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Condition is brand new and yes I know the seller very well
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Old 21 April 2018, 12:13 PM   #7
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I would get it, price in UK and Eur is already moving up and an official rise may follow on the Aquas this year.
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Old 21 April 2018, 12:25 PM   #8
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Thanks for the comments. And thoughts of why the 5167a price has appreciated so high. Don’t you think the 5164a will follow?
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Old 21 April 2018, 02:02 PM   #9
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Old 21 April 2018, 02:06 PM   #10
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In the UK, yes
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Old 21 April 2018, 04:35 PM   #11
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Originally Posted by VC8 View Post
Hi - I am getting a Patek 5164a offered at $36k. A bit of a premium versus the retail and given how hard they are now to access. What are everyone’s thoughts at that price? Worth the premium and do you think this will appreciate in value? Thanks
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Based on the current market - I don’t think that is a real ‘premium’ as retail is $34,020 usd...!
i agree... when you add sales tax 36k is retail in USD.

Were you referring to the "premium" over the 5167? As in is it worth it compared to the other model at retail? If that was your question then the answer is yes.
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Old 21 April 2018, 04:52 PM   #12
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Were you referring to the "premium" over the 5167? As in is it worth it compared to the other model at retail? If that was your question then the answer is yes.
Personally, I am not sure that I agree with that position...whilst I like the 5164A and it receives much appreciation on this forum, the 80% premium over the 5167A (at retail prices) is extremely steep for the addition of a second timezone and associated features in my humble opinion. With that said, I personally very much like dual-time/GMT watches as they are highly functional and would, given the equal choice between the two, select the 5164A without a second's thought. But factoring the value offered, I think I would more likely settle on the 5167A.
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Old 21 April 2018, 05:04 PM   #13
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Personally, I am not sure that I agree with that position...whilst I like the 5164A and it receives much appreciation on this forum, the 80% premium over the 5167A (at retail prices) is extremely steep for the addition of a second timezone and associated features in my humble opinion. With that said, I personally very much like dual-time/GMT watches as they are highly functional and would, given the equal choice between the two, select the 5164A without a second's thought. But factoring the value offered, I think I would more likely settle on the 5167A.
in the context of watches, the premium for a PC vs AC is also huge, when the dial may even look the same or very similar and the functionality only matters on one day of the year and hypothetically the watches would be the same otherwise. In the case of the 67 and 64 the dial is different, there is a practical and useful complication, and IMO the case size is better for a sports watch on a strap (thicker). So of course its subjective, but it also depends on what you are comparing it to.

Plus, complexity of the complication aside the travel time is a fairly exclusive complication. There are less travel time models than chronographs or PC or AC watches.
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Old 21 April 2018, 05:28 PM   #14
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in the context of watches, the premium for a PC vs AC is also huge, when the dial may even look the same or very similar and the functionality only matters on one day of the year and hypothetically the watches would be the same otherwise. In the case of the 67 and 64 the dial is different, there is a practical and useful complication, and IMO the case size is better for a sports watch on a strap (thicker). So of course its subjective, but it also depends on what you are comparing it to.

Plus, complexity of the complication aside the travel time is a fairly exclusive complication. There are less travel time models than chronographs or PC or AC watches.
Each a valid point and counterargument. In addition I suppose that it is worth considering the relative value for the complication against the new 5968A - not least as many will use the dual time functionality, whilst chronographs are generally-speaking less employed by most.
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Old 21 April 2018, 05:36 PM   #15
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Each a valid point and counterargument. In addition I suppose that it is worth considering the relative value for the complication against the new 5968A - not least as many will use the dual time functionality, whilst chronographs are generally-speaking less employed by most.
the 5968 is awesome IMO. If i didn't have the 64 i would be all over it. I love the 64 too much to flip it so im not having both, but if they were both available when i got my 64 i may have done the chrono instead.
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Old 21 April 2018, 09:28 PM   #16
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Thanks for the comments. And thoughts of why the 5167a price has appreciated so high. Don’t you think the 5164a will follow?
The 67 moved up quickly last year as it was the cheap model and those in SS do very well 5711, 5522, D500 etc, but this year the 64 has moved up as well as 67 supply has disappeared and same for 5711 and 12.
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Old 21 April 2018, 09:31 PM   #17
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Originally Posted by kingofthehill View Post
Personally, I am not sure that I agree with that position...whilst I like the 5164A and it receives much appreciation on this forum, the 80% premium over the 5167A (at retail prices) is extremely steep for the addition of a second timezone and associated features in my humble opinion. With that said, I personally very much like dual-time/GMT watches as they are highly functional and would, given the equal choice between the two, select the 5164A without a second's thought. But factoring the value offered, I think I would more likely settle on the 5167A.
A lot of us liked the look and build of the 64 over the 67 but as you say the retail was very high in comparison, but after the sports price rises of the last 6 months this has been the value buy, but that too is changing.
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Old 21 April 2018, 10:23 PM   #18
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To me the 64 is probably the best ‘all around’ Patek out there - the overall look, size, feel and utility.

As mentioned earlier regarding the complication - comparing or underplaying its utility is apples and oranges - as well as any more ‘desirability’ that might come along with it. (Tyler’s - PC/AC analogy is perfect). Not all GMT’s are true ‘dual-time’ movements and vice versa. It all comes down to whether or not the ‘other hand’ can be set independently. To me a true dual time complication trumps a GMT all day - and makes for a much more useful (everyday) complication overall.

I personally haven’t seen more than about a 38% premium on the 67s to date — which would still put that pricing well under the retail of the 64s.

Don’t get me wrong the 67 is a GREAT reference but I’d go 64 ALL DAY.

Just my .02


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Old 21 April 2018, 10:31 PM   #19
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A lot of us liked the look and build of the 64 over the 67 but as you say the retail was very high in comparison, but after the sports price rises of the last 6 months this has been the value buy, but that too is changing.
It was definitely a value buy a couple of years ago on the secondary market. These were going for around 26-27k. I think it will slowly creep up in value.
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Old 22 April 2018, 12:30 AM   #20
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No idea on future appreciation, but it’s a great watch at what seems to be a decent price. If you like it, go for it, but I wouldn’t buy any watch as an investment
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Old 22 April 2018, 12:31 AM   #21
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It was definitely a value buy a couple of years ago on the secondary market. These were going for around 26-27k. I think it will slowly creep up in value.
I bought a 4 month old example last December for 28K USD. The lowest price from a U.S. AD around that time was 31.5K USD. As a % of price appreciation over that time period, it seems to be following other Aquanaut and Nautilus references.

At the time, I thought 9K was a reasonable amount to pay to upgrade from the 5167 to the 5164, considering the MSRP difference is close to 15K.

Even at 36K now, it's still a relatively sane buy and not really at a premium if you factor in sales taxes, just that there used to be some generous discounts, unlike the 5711/12 which are now trading for 12-20K+ premiums.

At this stage I would not bet on any future appreciation - I would only buy if you like and will enjoy the watch. That said, if it keeps on going up, there's probably a $ threshold with which I'll be tempted to sell and upgrade into my grail piece, a Datograph.
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Old 22 April 2018, 02:31 AM   #22
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5164 all day long
Value will go up as always. Jump !
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Old 22 April 2018, 05:29 AM   #23
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If you are mainly investing, 5167 is a safe bet. Price is catching up with 5164 one day. Look at 5711 and 5712/1a or 5712r, 6 months ago vs now. The difference in price is so tiny.
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Old 22 April 2018, 05:37 AM   #24
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If you are mainly investing, 5167 is a safe bet. Price is catching up with 5164 one day. Look at 5711 and 5712/1a or 5712r, 6 months ago vs now. The difference in price is so tiny.
I would be hesitant to use Nautilus to guess Aquanaut futures, but the premise that the entry level model has more upside is certainly true. I used to have a 67, nice watch and would love to own one again. The 64 is incredible as well, but for me not worth the premium.
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Old 22 April 2018, 05:51 AM   #25
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To me the 64 is probably the best ‘all around’ Patek out there - the overall look, size, feel and utility.

As mentioned earlier regarding the complication - comparing or underplaying its utility is apples and oranges - as well as any more ‘desirability’ that might come along with it. (Tyler’s - PC/AC analogy is perfect). Not all GMT’s are true ‘dual-time’ movements and vice versa. It all comes down to whether or not the ‘other hand’ can be set independently. To me a true dual time complication trumps a GMT all day - and makes for a much more useful (everyday) complication overall.

I personally haven’t seen more than about a 38% premium on the 67s to date — which would still put that pricing well under the retail of the 64s.

Don’t get me wrong the 67 is a GREAT reference but I’d go 64 ALL DAY.

Just my .02


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There’s a sealed 5167 at European Watch for 29.9K Good deal.
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Old 22 April 2018, 06:12 AM   #26
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If you like it go for it. I personally won’t buy into hype and pay the premium.
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Old 22 April 2018, 06:43 AM   #27
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Patek 5164a worth the premium?

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There’s a sealed 5167 at European Watch for 29.9K Good deal.


Not too bad - if it’s a ‘newer’ one. I’ve seen some around the 25k mark.

When getting close to 30k — I’d be going 64 all day.

Personally - I wouldn’t pay 25k plus for a 67...

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Old 22 April 2018, 07:40 AM   #28
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Not too bad - if it’s a ‘newer’ one. I’ve seen some around the 25k mark.

When getting close to 30k — I’d be going 64 all day.

Personally - I wouldn’t pay 25k plus for a 67...

Just my .02




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Agree, I was being facetious. Even 25K is overpriced for what it is. When the bubble bursts its not going to be pretty.
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Old 22 April 2018, 07:45 AM   #29
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Agree, I was being facetious. Even 25K is overpriced for what it is. When the bubble bursts its not going to be pretty.



You’ve got that right. Best thing anyone in the market for any of these references could do is be patient - or look at other options.

@25k many PM options (newer release) are in the mix — along with some true GEMS from FP Journe, Vacheron, Breguet...the time to cast a wider net in this hobby is now!


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Old 22 April 2018, 08:03 AM   #30
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You’ve got that right. Best thing anyone in the market for any of these references could do is be patient - or look at other options.

@25k many PM options (newer release) are in the mix — along with some true GEMS from FP Journe, Vacheron, Breguet...the time to cast a wider net in this hobby is now!


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Just curious, FOR THE MONEY ONLY... what’s a better deal.
5726a strap for 39.4k
5164a for 36k.
Both BNIB
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