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Old 2 August 2017, 06:58 PM   #61
opzxkl
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What do you guys think of buying a 5711 at say $30k USD nowadays?

Been looking for one recently but at these prices it seems a bit much.
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Old 2 August 2017, 07:24 PM   #62
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What do you guys think of buying a 5711 at say $30k USD nowadays?

Been looking for one recently but at these prices it seems a bit much.
I'd just wait it out after putting some money down at AD. I think it's a cool watch but it's not worth a premium at all...just hyped with availability/marketing...if I get one at msrp cool...if not, plenty of other watches I'd buy before this at the 30k range.
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Old 2 August 2017, 07:33 PM   #63
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Sorry to disappoint but punters are paying these prices, if you want the piece for the summer whats the problem, use it for 6 months and move it on. It's a great piece with a cast iron residual - ok you will loose a few thousand but to these guys that is nothing!
Russell - you sure it's not people trying their luck?
I can't believe it. I said it before, it's a nice watch, (hell I've got one which I paid £18,030 LIST for in June) but it's NOT that nice...

There's NO WAY I'd entertain that £29k price for it. NO WAY.
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Old 2 August 2017, 07:37 PM   #64
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What do you guys think of buying a 5711 at say $30k USD nowadays?

Been looking for one recently but at these prices it seems a bit much.
$5K premium is a lot cheaper than building an AD relationship. I don't think $30k for the blue dial is a bad deal
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Old 2 August 2017, 07:59 PM   #65
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It's all relative.

People who are able to buy the Nautilus think it's a great bargain as it's cheaper and more usable than the older vintage 3700 Nautilus which is $50k or even more with the cork box & papers.

But really $30,000 dollars for a steel, time & date watch with the base 324 SC movement is a bit crazy. It's almost bordering on objet d'art territory - since the cost of manufacturing is probably much lower than the eventual secondary market price.

It is like paying $20,000 for intangibles which could collapse at the whim of watch collectors; however since Patek is a super brand I don't think it will. The Nautilus has a very strong support price. It's like the Berkshire Hathaway or Apple stock of watches (maybe not Apple stock).

On the basis of the watch itself- yes I would say it has some merit. These come from 1) Gerald Genta design, monobloc case construction with gasket (actually this was the older 3700, the 5711 uses a three-part constructed case) 2) beautiful Stern Creations dial reminiscent of sea waves, combined with the case design it's like looking out of a porthole which follows the nautical theme of the timepiece 3) thinness, integrated bracelet, lightness, strong Geneva/Patek seal movement finishing & relative robustness of 120m water resistance, also some horological innovation inc. Gyromax balance wheel w, adjustable rim weights.

However I think alot of the secondary market price comes from the 'super brand' aspect of Patek Philippe. If this watch's name was Vacheron Constantin, Piaget, even AP or some other watch it would sell at 15-20k. Only because it is the premier Patek integrated stainless steel watch, can you ask such high amounts for a three handed steel integrated bracelet watch with date function..

With all that being said, I could see myself buying one lol. But I would not pay 37.5 for it, that is crazy..



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Old 2 August 2017, 08:03 PM   #66
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Russell - you sure it's not people trying their luck?
I can't believe it. I said it before, it's a nice watch, (hell I've got one which I paid £18,030 LIST for in June) but it's NOT that nice...

There's NO WAY I'd entertain that £29k price for it. NO WAY.
Well of course it is people trying their luck and then finding it works - that's why the prices have been creeping up. If you consider that someone thinks right I want a 5711 for the summer, has plenty of deposable and is confident that prices are rock solid for a resale in 6 months - why not! They have nothing to loose. Even at an inflated price the resale loss on one of these pieces is still far smaller than many other brands purchased new at a discount.
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Old 2 August 2017, 08:24 PM   #67
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The 5711 white dial is already selling in the US $28k to $29k territory. DavidSW posted one, and probably lasted a couple of weeks before it was gone...
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Old 2 August 2017, 09:02 PM   #68
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It's all relative.

People who are able to buy the Nautilus think it's a great bargain as it's cheaper and more usable than the older vintage 3700 Nautilus which is $50k or even more with the cork box & papers.

But really $30,000 dollars for a steel, time & date watch with the base 324 SC movement is a bit crazy. It's almost bordering on objet d'art territory - since the cost of manufacturing is probably much lower than the eventual secondary market price.

It is like paying $20,000 for intangibles which could collapse at the whim of watch collectors; however since Patek is a super brand I don't think it will. The Nautilus has a very strong support price. It's like the Berkshire Hathaway or Apple stock of watches (maybe not Apple stock).

On the basis of the watch itself- yes I would say it has some merit. These come from 1) Gerald Genta design, monobloc case construction with gasket (actually this was the older 3700, the 5711 uses a three-part constructed case) 2) beautiful Stern Creations dial reminiscent of sea waves, combined with the case design it's like looking out of a porthole which follows the nautical theme of the timepiece 3) thinness, integrated bracelet, lightness, strong Geneva/Patek seal movement finishing & relative robustness of 120m water resistance, also some horological innovation inc. Gyromax balance wheel w, adjustable rim weights.

However I think alot of the secondary market price comes from the 'super brand' aspect of Patek Philippe. If this watch's name was Vacheron Constantin, Piaget, even AP or some other watch it would sell at 15-20k. Only because it is the premier Patek integrated stainless steel watch, can you ask such high amounts for a three handed steel integrated bracelet watch with date function..

With all that being said, I could see myself buying one lol. But I would not pay 37.5 for it, that is crazy..
Thanks for the thoughtful insight and awesome pic

I'm waiting for my 5711 blue. My AD anticipates delivery towards the end of the year. Let's hope for no price increase before then
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Old 3 August 2017, 12:33 AM   #69
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I've been looking at them and honestly really like the white one and was going to wait for another DAVIDSW type deal to pop up but this worship of the blue dial makes me question whether I'm an idiot for daring to waste money on the white one. Our PP dealer went out of business so I have zero chance of getting one retail locally. I'd be willing to deposit the 50% at an out of town AD but am a bit hesitant since our local dealer folded seemingly overnight. But these types of questions are perhaps less meaningful than, "How can i rationalize wearing a watch worth more than my car?" My nicest watch is a 5512 so this would be a huge jump for me.
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Old 3 August 2017, 12:41 AM   #70
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I've been looking at them and honestly really like the white one and was going to wait for another DAVIDSW type deal to pop up but this worship of the blue dial makes me question whether I'm an idiot for daring to waste money on the white one. Our PP dealer went out of business so I have zero chance of getting one retail locally. I'd be willing to deposit the 50% at an out of town AD but am a bit hesitant since our local dealer folded seemingly overnight. But these types of questions are perhaps less meaningful than, "How can i rationalize wearing a watch worth more than my car?"
Easy, the watch has better resale value than your car. You pay $25k for your car, once you drive it off the lot it's worth 20% less. You buy a 5711 wear it for 5 years, have it serviced and polished like new. You can sell it for what you paid for it or even more assuming the market has increased in value. Don't get me wrong this is not all Patek Philippe watches, only the 5711. Other models you will most likely lose value, but not as dramatic as say buying a new Hublot or Breitling.
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Old 3 August 2017, 12:48 AM   #71
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Govberg asking US$37.5k for LNIB Blue 5711. What is going on?!

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Easy, the watch has better resale value than your car. You pay $25k for your car, once you drive it off the lot it's worth 20% less. You buy a 5711 wear it for 5 years, have it serviced and polished like new. You can sell it for what you paid for it or even more assuming the market has increased in value. Don't get me wrong this is not all Patek Philippe watches, only the 5711. Other models you will most likely lose value, but not as dramatic as say buying a new Hublot or Breitling.


So that raises the question, do you think the blue will always command a premium over the white? I like both of them but I'm not going to turn down free money if the blue dials trend higher over time (assuming I could get on a wait list and pay retail). And serious question, when I go to sell it one day should I really polish it or is that as sacrilegious as polishing a vintage Rolex?


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Old 3 August 2017, 12:54 AM   #72
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Are you fighting for the right to pay nearly $30,000 for a simple stainless steel mechanical wristwatch at retail price? The whole thing is outrageous, and the only thing that makes it tick is demand.

Cutting the "most in demand watch" and replacing it with one at double the price creates massive demand not just for the old one but also the new one.

I wouldn't sell mine for 37.5, no intelligent collector would. A flipper? Sure.
No I'm saying it's horrible business practice to cut a profitable watch that's iconic to your brand and one which was formerly an entry point to your brand from the huge pool of rich Rolex owners.

If he cuts the nautilus design altogether and throws it in the trash he'll be the subject of a Harvard case study in 10 years.

Just my opinion. Once the stock market lays off the pcp watch how fast these 5711s come back to reality.

I'm not of the belief Patek or say Rolex are immmune to the overall tide of the industry.

Anyways time will tell. I'd sell a 5711 for 37.5 immediately, add 15k and hold a 5170 for an incredible 40k entry point but I'm cheap
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Old 3 August 2017, 12:58 AM   #73
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Blue will command a premium over white as it's the original colour. But as more people can't get blue they will switch to white and thus. New demand is created and it should all start evening itself out.
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Old 3 August 2017, 12:59 AM   #74
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So that raises the question, do you think the blue will always command a premium over the white? I like both of them but I'm not going to turn down free money if the blue dials trend higher over time (assuming I could get on a wait list and pay retail). And serious question, when I go to sell it one day should I really polish it or is that as sacrilegious as polishing a vintage Rolex?


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Well the blue is the classic genta design, currently it commands the premium over white dial, but the white dial only started production in 2012, so obviously there are more blue than white models on the market. Only time will tell which one will be worth more money. Some speculate that for every 1 out of 4 5711 produced are white dial, since blue is more popular. But only speculation, I personal prefer the white which is why I bought it. I went to the exhibition in Cipriani where I saw the blue and white side by side and I still would choose the white. What ever your choice, you can't go wrong. Happy hunting!

As for polishing, it's personal preference for the next buyer I suppose, if you daily your watch, it will get damaged no question, my 5167 has an end less amount of swirl and hairline marks, but no dings or deep scratches *knock on wood* yet. If I service would I polish it? Yes, the 5711, I think I would as well.

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I'd sell a 5711 for 37.5 immediately, add 15k and hold a 5170 for an incredible 40k entry point but I'm cheap
No disagreement, I would put my profit towards a 5712/r.
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Old 3 August 2017, 01:22 AM   #75
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Blue will command a premium over white as it's the original colour. But as more people can't get blue they will switch to white and thus. New demand is created and it should all start evening itself out.
When eventually TS decides to discontinue/upgrade 5711 there will be less white dials produced compared to blue dials. At that stage white may command a premium over blue as people may perceive it to be "rare"
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Old 3 August 2017, 01:31 AM   #76
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https://www.watchcentre.com/product/...-5711-1a/15003

Absolutely crazy. Surely this cannot be maintained. Tulips and South Sea stock come to mind.
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Old 3 August 2017, 01:34 AM   #77
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So that raises the question, do you think the blue will always command a premium over the white? I like both of them but I'm not going to turn down free money if the blue dials trend higher over time (assuming I could get on a wait list and pay retail). And serious question, when I go to sell it one day should I really polish it or is that as sacrilegious as polishing a vintage Rolex?


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Blue will carry a premium over the white, but the white will retain value over time as well. They only go for a few thousand less than the blue.

Re polishing: a single polish is
no problem, but it all depends on what your buyer wants. Probably best to leave it up to them.
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Old 3 August 2017, 02:16 AM   #78
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Re polishing: a single polish is
no problem, but it all depends on what your buyer wants. Probably best to leave it up to them.
Tend to really wear all timepieces so.... One of my Patek strategies is to have the watch inspected/serviced and lightly polished at Patek service facility. Light polish, esp around the case markings. Then leave it service sealed and sell it. If you go full service route, she also comes with warranty. If you want to command a premium, this may be one way to go about it, especially for Patek mechanical timepieces that are highly complicated. In addition, it takes away any buyer doubt of the condition of the timepiece, since Pateks can be a bit fragile plus they take an immense amount of wait time for servicing. Thus a sealed timepiece is a 'known good'.

Or just leave it 'as-is' after much wear, isn't the whole purpose to enjoy your time and wear it? Sold the Aqua with bezel scratches and case/clasp dents and still did ok. Maybe do nothing if you really never wear it or are not active at all with it and so she looks virtually new.

Of course you could maximize profits and just never wear it, just flip it when you feel the time is appropriate to maximize profit / currency valuation benefits.

i recall the story of two friends/people i know who both have vintage Ferrari 275GTB. One treats it like a museum piece, the other has (had?) the world's only UNrestored 275GTB and tracked the living &^%$ out of it often. Guess who had more fun? As for resale, never kept up with current pricing yet hear it is crazy and recall the UNrestored being valued more even though, yes, it looked a bit worn from heavy track use.

So wear the watch, use it as a proper SPORTS watch and let the scratches and dents happen naturally. Sure the lume in the Aqua's '10' raised numeral that was here fell out once, and the bezel was a bit scratched and dented, yet she was used and tested.

If you bought the Patek for flipping investing, then keep it sealed and never wear it. Remember that, generally, Patek buyers like shiny new things that are sealed and gladly pay a premium for such. Personally, i'd wait it out for an enamel / handcrafted item. Common production pieces are ok, yet true rare 'handcrafted' enamel items with highly desirable / common theme is where the big boys play.
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Old 3 August 2017, 04:10 AM   #79
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Tend to really wear all timepieces so.... One of my Patek strategies is to have the watch inspected/serviced and lightly polished at Patek service facility. Light polish, esp around the case markings. Then leave it service sealed and sell it.
Hmmm I did not know this was an option, good to know. I can polish lightly without having to go all in with the full service. I know AP offers this service, but surprised that Patek also does. I assumed Patek service is all or nothing proposition. Thanks for the info.
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Old 3 August 2017, 04:26 AM   #80
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So when you buy a 5711 now what's your trailing stop loss? This is more like a stock than a watch.
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Old 3 August 2017, 04:35 AM   #81
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So when you buy a 5711 now what's your trailing stop loss? This is more like a stock than a watch.
OH NO! GRAY MARKET IS $500 LESS NOW THAN IT WAS A WEEK AGO! SELL! SELL! SELL!
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Old 3 August 2017, 04:39 AM   #82
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Hmmm I did not know this was an option, good to know. I can polish lightly without having to go all in with the full service. I know AP offers this service, but surprised that Patek also does. I assumed Patek service is all or nothing proposition. Thanks for the info.
I may be misunderstanding, but to be clear I'm not sure that Patek offers a "partial" service. It's a full service or nothing is what I've always understood. Now maybe they'll just do a polish for you without any service, but once they open the watch I didn't think there was a Chinese menu option.

It would be almost impossible for them the warranty a partial service I would think.
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Old 3 August 2017, 04:44 AM   #83
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I may be misunderstanding, but to be clear I'm not sure that Patek offers a "partial" service. It's a full service or nothing is what I've always understood. Now maybe they'll just do a polish for you without any service, but once they open the watch I didn't think there was a Chinese menu option.

It would be almost impossible for them the warranty a partial service I would think.
That's what I thought as well, but I don't know enjoythemusic that well, what his collection may be. Perhaps he has had this partial service in the past. Maybe Steven can clarify for all of us uninitiated.
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Old 3 August 2017, 04:51 AM   #84
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As a former owner of a 5711, which I purchased new from an AD, I can report as follows: it's a steel watch with a date complication. That's it. I don't get it either.
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Old 3 August 2017, 04:51 AM   #85
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That's what I thought as well, but I don't know enjoythemusic that well, what his collection may be. Perhaps he has had this partial service in the past. Maybe Steven can clarify for all of us uninitiated.
I'd appreciate the info as well.
Maybe for a cosmetic issue the customer would have the option, i.e. replacing worn hands, but for anything mechanical I'd always thought Patek has the final say...

Does anyone know if Rolex (or any brand for that matter) will offer a "partial" service only?
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Old 3 August 2017, 04:54 AM   #86
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I am new to this PP market and I am a little curious. I've read this entire thread and do your (all) remarks also go for the 5712/1A? I've been recently asked to deposit 50% which seems to be pretty high - is that the norm?
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Old 3 August 2017, 05:03 AM   #87
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I am new to this PP market and I am a little curious. I've read this entire thread and do your (all) remarks also go for the 5712/1A? I've been recently asked to deposit 50% which seems to be pretty high - is that the norm?
No 50% is not the norm. Be sure you fully trust the AD won't be going out of business or you'll be out all that cash. If you have zero issues with that, then make sure it's in writing fully refundable if they don't deliver by a certain date.
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Old 3 August 2017, 05:12 AM   #88
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I'd appreciate the info as well.
Maybe for a cosmetic issue the customer would have the option, i.e. replacing worn hands, but for anything mechanical I'd always thought Patek has the final say...

Does anyone know if Rolex (or any brand for that matter) will offer a "partial" service only?
Had my Milgauss serviced and it came back unpolished after I made clear I did not want it so.
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Old 3 August 2017, 05:37 AM   #89
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Had my Milgauss serviced and it came back unpolished after I made clear I did not want it so.
I understand that polish is optional, I was just referring to the mechanical service. My understanding was that once they opened the watch, it was all or nothing with everything but purely cosmetic issues.
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Old 3 August 2017, 06:18 AM   #90
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I doubt if they could do a partial anything and confirming they have your instructions and having it done the way you want good luck!
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