Patek mind games: separating the money from the watch

[MrNemo]

I've been collecting watches for about ten years. I've had over 100 watches of almost every brand, from Anonimo and Marathon to Doxa and Panerai. I always come back to Rolex.

For a long time, my dream watch was a 5512 and I've been wearing one now for about 6 months. But lately, I became spellbound by the 5711. I've never owned a watch anywhere near as expensive as the 5711.

I'm in a position to buy one if I could find one secondhand or get on a wait list. But I'm having kind of a watch crisis. Being able to spend $30K on a watch has been messing with my mind a lot. Now I look at, say, a 16610 - a watch I dreamed of for twenty years that I've now owned in multiple incarnations - and it seems rather diminutive. Why? I keep thinking, "A 5711 is like wearing 6 16610s."

I feel like the money is really blurring the line between ego and appreciation. It's like being able to afford one has the potential of turning me into an instant watch snob. I'm worried about how my thoughts have transitioned from being 15 and cutting out pictures of Subs to hang on my wall and now suddenly thinking, "It's just a Rolex."

I like the 5711. I really do. And I'm not planning on selling the 5512. But I'm afraid that I'm basing "what's cool" on the allure of the brand and the absurd cost rather than the watch. It seems like such a losing battle. After all, this is the entry level Patek. What happens two years after you get a 5711, do you start thinking the 5711 isn't "a real Patek" because it doesn't cost $90K?

Has anyone else gone through these types of weird head games? I can't tell if tastes change over time and if I'm really genuinely excited about the 5711 as "an evolution of a timeless Genta design" or if I'm just drawn to the Patek because wearing it says, "I can afford to blow $30K on a watch." I don't want to beat myself up too much over this, however; if you put a Patek and a Rolex on a table in front of an average person, wouldn't they immediately assume the Rolex is the nicer of two? Do non-enthusiasts even know what a Patek is?

It is so hard to separate "what's cool" from the money. I'm not sure if I'm evaluating the 5711 on its merits or purely on the power of the word "Patek" and I'm seriously worried that there may be no going back to the "lesser brands" that I've always coveted and enjoyed once the Patek line is crossed. And I wonder if people who have owned Pateks for a while roll their eyes when someone excitedly announces, "I bought my first Patek, a 5711!" and think "Oh a 5711, how quaint, how imaginative."

I'm overthinking this, aren't I?

[Helmi]

Originally Posted by MrNemo

I've been collecting watches for about ten years. I've had over 100 watches of almost every brand, from Anonimo and Marathon to Doxa and Panerai. I always come back to Rolex.



For a long time, my dream watch was a 5512 and I've been wearing one now for about 6 months. But lately, I became spellbound by the 5711. I've never owned a watch anywhere near as expensive as the 5711.



I'm in a position to buy one if I could find one secondhand or get on a wait list. But I'm having kind of a watch crisis. Being able to spend $30K on a watch has been messing with my mind a lot. Now I look at, say, a 16610 - a watch I dreamed of for twenty years that I've now owned in multiple incarnations - and it seems rather diminutive. Why? I keep thinking, "A 5711 is like wearing 6 16610s."



I feel like the money is really blurring the line between ego and appreciation. It's like being able to afford one has the potential of turning me into an instant watch snob. I'm worried about how my thoughts have transitioned from being 15 and cutting out pictures of Subs to hang on my wall and now suddenly thinking, "It's just a Rolex."



I like the 5711. I really do. And I'm not planning on selling the 5512. But I'm afraid that I'm basing "what's cool" on the allure of the brand and the absurd cost rather than the watch. It seems like such a losing battle. After all, this is the entry level Patek. What happens two years after you get a 5711, do you start thinking the 5711 isn't "a real Patek" because it doesn't cost $90K?



Has anyone else gone through these types of weird head games? I can't tell if tastes change over time and if I'm really genuinely excited about the 5711 as "an evolution of a timeless Genta design" or if I'm just drawn to the Patek because wearing it says, "I can afford to blow $30K on a watch." I don't want to beat myself up too much over this, however; if you put a Patek and a Rolex on a table in front of an average person, wouldn't they immediately assume the Rolex is the nicer of two? Do non-watch enthusiasts even know what a Patek is?



It is so hard to separate "what's cool" from the money. I'm not sure if I'm evaluating the 5711 on its merits or purely on the power of the word "Patek" and I'm seriously worried that there may be no going back to the "lesser brands" that I've always coveted and enjoyed once the Patek line is crossed. And I wonder if people who have owned Pateks for a while roll their eyes when someone excitedly announces, "I bought my first Patek, a 5711!" and think "Oh a 5711, how quaint, how imaginative."



I'm overthinking this, aren't I?

Why are you making it hard for yourself? I was exactly same until last year when I decided "f&$* it" how long I am going to live and bought a patek and 2 rolexes from that time till now. I love both patek and rolex and very happy and proud owning and wearing both.

On the idea of blowing 30k on a watch, I guess it makes it easier if you think that any time you want to liquidate the money you be able to get back most if not all that money.

Go for it. Once done all these ideas and thoughts will fade.

[MrNemo]

Originally Posted by Helmi

Why are you making it hard for yourself? I was exactly same until last year when I decided "f&$* it" how long I am going to live and bought a patek and 2 rolexes from that time till now. I love both patek and rolex and very happy and proud owning and wearing both.

On the idea of blowing 30k on a watch, I guess it makes it easier if you think that any time you want to liquidate the money you be able to get back most if not all that money back.

Go for it. Once done all these ideas and thoughts will fade.

Thanks for the reply. Selling a 5711 for what you pay is probably guaranteed. Knowing that the choice to give Patek a trial run is rather risk free is a good point.


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[Flex368]

Originally Posted by MrNemo

After all, this is the entry level Patek.

I thought we meanwhile got rid of this term in the PP section of the forum.

[MrNemo]

Originally Posted by Flex368

I thought we meanwhile got rid of this term in the PP section of the forum.

Yes, my italics denoted sarcasm because I've seen people say it without any irony on this sub


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[tyler1980]

Originally Posted by Flex368

I thought we meanwhile got rid of this term in the PP section of the forum.

agreed. Its a sports watch where as most PP are dresser. So entry level to what?
If you like a simple dial sports watch there are not a lot of further options to "upgrade" to IMO.

[KarlS]

Originally Posted by Flex368

I thought we meanwhile got rid of this term in the PP section of the forum.

Thought that was the 5167

[RUK]

The 5512 is as special as any 5711. Be sure to hold on to that. I have the 114060 and the 5711. They are great watches that you won't get tired of.
Get on a list and get a 5711. Don't over think it

Sent from my ONEPLUS A5000 using Tapatalk

[lapince]

It's an awesome watch, and well worth the MSRP, or maybe 1-2k more through grey, I also had many Rolex and Pams, and other brands, there is no comparison, 5711 kicks the butt of any Rolex for me, even the Platona, but that's me, others will not agree. I have 3, 5711-12 and 5167R, plus 2 AP, so basically max price is 30k, in euros, seems strange at fordt wearign 30k on your wrist, but you get used to it, so much cooler... and no, most people won't know what it is, which is great by me...

[Andad]

Yes.

[walds11]

Yes you are overthinking this. If you can afford it, go for it.

[jfriedkin]

Having collected watches for 30 years, I have noticed my tastes do change. 20 years ago it was the idea of owning a Patek. Now it's having several Pateks and upgrading my collection. Toying with the idea of selling a couple of time only to upgrade to a more complicated watch. I wear my Pateks in complete anonymity which I love. I also own a Rolex Day-Date and I refuse to wear it around friends and family because of what it stand for, so I strap on a Patek instead. The thought of $30k on your wrist does fad, however you will never strap on your seatbelt the same ever again, or walk by stationary items (like a brick wall). Enjoy in good health!

[ap1]

Trust the process

[brandrea]

Yes

[Sunly]

I went through the exact throught process. I did bit the 5711 and I let it go after 1 week.
When I was wearing the 5711, I keep on thinking that is nice, but is it 3 Rolex nice? The main problem is that is not "me". I don't think it's suit me, hence I let go and now chasing after something else.

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[tng11]

Originally Posted by MrNemo

It is so hard to separate "what's cool" from the money. I'm not sure if I'm evaluating the 5711 on its merits or purely on the power of the word "Patek" and I'm seriously worried that there may be no going back to the "lesser brands" that I've always coveted and enjoyed once the Patek line is crossed. And I wonder if people who have owned Pateks for a while roll their eyes when someone excitedly announces, "I bought my first Patek, a 5711!" and think "Oh a 5711, how quaint, how imaginative."

I say buy what you like and don't worry about the money, to the extent that you can actually afford it. Especially with watches like Patek - if you buy right, the chance of you losing your shirt is nearly non-existant. I wouldn't think of watches like the 5711 in "how many of X can you buy", but rather on its own merits (which includes market values).

And I don't think it's the case that once you've crossed a certain line in the horological world, that you can't go back to "lesser brands". For instance, I own 3 APs, but I've also bought 2 Rolexes in the last 3 months, because I appreciate them for their functionality, reliability and quality at a fair price point.

[GB-man]

Overthinking.

I've gone from Rolex to Patek to Tudor to Lange to Breitling to Rolex etc

It's not some mythical line and I highly doubt you will lose all interest in Rolex.

[Mitch105]

I have to admit I enjoy the anonymity of owning a Patek knowing that 99.99% of the time wherever I am, I'm the only one in the know. That is the ego part that makes other brands but especially Rolex hard to go back to because 99.9% of the time people do know the Rolex brand if not the watch. And they think Rolex is the best to be had.

But truly what allows me to spend the money is the passion I have for the craftsmanship and legacy of Patek. It is a special feeling and wearing them everyday is very enjoyable. I don't get the feeling of satisfaction or joy of ownership from other brands nearly the same way though I do love other watches and Rolex.

Finally, for me every time I see my Patek, and gaze at the caseback visible movement of art it does it for me. In our world of high tech and apple watches it's this old world mastery that calms me down and brings craft back to centre even if only for a moment while I put my watch on or off. If Rolex had their movements visible at least in the datejust range perhaps that would make them less industrial to me.

[Oryx]

get the blue dial 5711 and you wont look back - buy at list and its well worth the price

if you cant get comfortable with the purchase then stick with a Rolex - at least you wont overly worry when wearing it.

Either way you wont go wrong

[codecow]

If you really like your Rolex pieces you'll keep them. I have been wearing the BLNR GMT for a few weeks now and only yesterday thought about swapping it out despite owning many "nicer" watches. Vintage pieces that you may have had to seek out like your 5512 I suspect will always stay around. I'm never going to sell my 16710.

[AK797]

You are overthinking this and so you should. This is a big purchase, esp for just a watch, and it's natural to think are you buying the watch or are you buying the price, and will other cheaper watches be then ruined for you? But the rub is, that's all just theory, you have to buy and own and then you'll know what is truly right for you. We all go through this journey and we've all come out the other side, better and improved, sort of, and you will too. Enjoy the ride.

[jamiek84]

I am in a similar boat.. I really like Rolex, and currently wear a as Daytona, purchased a couple of years ago. I thought that would be that... no!

Walking past a watch dealer I saw a nautilus in the window, thought ok, I'll try that on, but didn't have the time. Next time I went past it had gone. Which probably made me think I wanted one even more.

None of my friends or family are particularly interested in watches, and I don't show them off. I wear them because I enjoy them.

I think 1% of people would notice you had a watch on, and probably nearly 1% of them would notice it was a Patek.

I've seen people before at weddings, airports or in hotels and if the moment is right, would say you have a nice watch. In the last few years, I had someone compliment a Hublot and a Royal Oak, most people show no interest.

I am not looking to get a 5712 for compliments, or people to think I'm doing well, but I really like the watch, and want to appreciate it and enjoy while I can :)

[WatchingAustin]

You are way overthinking this. There will always be someone with more.

• Only a specific type of person recognizes a Patek
• If they are condescending because you own a 5711 they would likely be an ass in every other situation
• Buy what you can afford

[mps354]

I think you are over thinking this as well. If you pick up a 5711 at list price from an AD and end up not liking it, not being comfortable with the price, or more interested in something more complicated, you can get out of it with no pain

[spiker]

I've had quite a few non-rolexes all my life. I never thought I could afford it. Finally when I hit 50 I bought a TT Datejust. I loved that watch. I kept staring at it etc. Then 5 years later I bought a TT Daytona. Then I sold both. Got a couple more Daytonas. What the hell am I doing? Now that I'm retiring I want the 5712! More cost than all of them- why? It's about wants not about money! If you want it- get it. Life is too short. Let your kids enjoy them later.

[MILGAUSS88]

Originally Posted by MrNemo

I feel like the money is really blurring the line between ego and appreciation. It's like being able to afford one has the potential of turning me into an instant watch snob.

I like the 5711. I really do. And I'm not planning on selling the 5512. But I'm afraid that I'm basing "what's cool" on the allure of the brand and the absurd cost rather than the watch. It seems like such a losing battle.

Has anyone else gone through these types of weird head games? I can't tell if tastes change over time and if I'm really genuinely excited about the 5711 as "an evolution of a timeless Genta design" or if I'm just drawn to the Patek because wearing it says, "I can afford to blow $30K on a watch." I don't want to beat myself up too much over this, however; if you put a Patek and a Rolex on a table in front of an average person, wouldn't they immediately assume the Rolex is the nicer of two? Do non-enthusiasts even know what a Patek is?

It is so hard to separate "what's cool" from the money. I'm not sure if I'm evaluating the 5711 on its merits or purely on the power of the word "Patek" and I'm seriously worried that there may be no going back to the "lesser brands" that I've always coveted and enjoyed once the Patek line is crossed. And I wonder if people who have owned Pateks for a while roll their eyes when someone excitedly announces, "I bought my first Patek, a 5711!" and think "Oh a 5711, how quaint, how imaginative."

I'm overthinking this, aren't I?

I think you are absolutely right.

I think Patek is THE shining example of creating exclusivity through pricing that I learned about in my Econ 101 class in college, back in the 80's.

For most Patek models I think supply and demand have no connection.
I remember in about 2004, I decided that I liked the 5085 model.
They could be found on eBay for $8,000. I thought wow, a Patek with complications for less than a Daytona. I decided I would buy one, but wanted to try one on first. At the time, I had not spent more than $3,000 on any watch that I owned, so $8k was a significant increase in what I had spent.
Problem was there was no where around that I could try one on. I kept watching on eBay and the 5085, never seemed to sell on there. However, the next year all the dealers raised there price to $9k. The following year, the prices went to $10.5k. The year after that $13k. Then finally stopping at $14k. The entire time I never saw a completed auction or buy it now, where the watch actually sold over a 5 year period.

Having a degree in Economics, I questioned, How can a watch go up in value when they are not selling.
My conclusion, or impression, is that the price is controlled by Patek and a relatively small number of dealers that have a vested interest.

Honestly, are any of these watches really "worth" what we pay for them.
I have finally surrendered to the idea that it is just what an individual feels comfortable with spending.

When I first wanted to buy a watch, 25 years ago, I did not feel comfortable spending more than $300. The limit quickly went to $600, then a thousand.
Every step made it easier to go on to the next level.

At this point, I think I am in the same position as you. I just don't feel comfortable at that "next" level. There are several watches that I would like to purchase in the $20k to $40k range. But, I just cannot pull the trigger.

I look at my watch collection and think that it is doable. Then I look at my paycheck and say "What the crap am I thinking?".

So, for me, it will probably be a wait, until a run across a deal that is just to good to pass up, or I make a big financial score and feel like splurging.

[lapince]

Originally Posted by AK797

You are overthinking this and so you should. This is a big purchase, esp for just a watch, and it's natural to think are you buying the watch or are you buying the price, and will other cheaper watches be then ruined for you? But the rub is, that's all just theory, you have to buy and own and then you'll know what is truly right for you. We all go through this journey and we've all come out the other side, better and improved, sort of, and you will too. Enjoy the ride.

Like always my English friend is right, how can I say that, I am French the 5711 will take a few days getting used to, 3-5, but once you do you'll love it. Go for it, in worse case you will sell it for a little over what you paid, would be stupid not to do it IMO

[Hollister]

If I was looking at a 5711, I'd get the AP Jumbo.

[Defiancekofb]

Originally Posted by MrNemo

I'm overthinking this, aren't I?

Your not overthinking this, it's natural to want to desire what you don't have. Then when you finally get it, you want something else. I have a 5711 which I purchased last month, but when I was in the AD I was salavating over a 5712/R (which they also had in stock along with a 5164/A), I was never spellbound over the 5712/A, but when I saw the 5712/R I knew I needed to have it.

But here I am, currently my line up is an AP, few rolex, 5167, 5711. But like you stated to justify to purchase a $25-30k watch is insane, but now I have to try and convince myself is buying a $44k watch insane? Would I be liquidating some pieces for this 5712/R endeavour? Absolutely, but would it be in good faith in my mind to do so and if I did get this 5712/R would I be satisfied? Or yearn for something more?

So I came to a decision, I would keep my line up for a year or so an then make a decision to buy a 5712/R. I've seen other pieces in similar price range that have caught my attention. FP Journe Octa Automatique Lune and some Lange, but obviously I am a Patek head and I thoughts still drift back to the 5712/R.

[AK797]

Originally Posted by lapince

Like always my English friend is right, how can I say that, I am French the 5711 will take a few days getting used to, 3-5, but once you do you'll love it. Go for it, in worse case you will sell it for a little over what you paid, would be stupid not to do it IMO

You're not that French... any more.