Lange Zeitwerk or Journe Centigraphe

[Jp28]

Did a bit of consolidation last year and it worked out well. So thinking of another round !
I would have to trade two watches I have for one of the above. However getting to handle either is not easy so I am looking for a bit of input from those who have experienced either/both as regards which one you would choose and why/why not to help develop a better view of what I could be getting myself into :)

[subtona]

Both are amazing watches.

Centigraphe more wearable. That’s enough to make it a simple choice for me.

[JR16]

Which centigraphe?
Regardless, agree w/ Gus that you need a big wrist to wear the Zeitwerk comfortably.
Depending where you are, could find a large pre-owned dealer who might have both to try on.


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[hideki4]

You are asking about a Richemont conglomerate corporate owned company vs. a spectacular Independent. Go with Journe all day everyday over any Richemont Lange.

[Cozmopak]

Chanel owns 20 percent of Journe. Eventually it may not be independent at all. I would definitely not base your decision on this.

[Flex368]

Just based on looks: Centigraphe.

[GB-man]

I would prefer the centigraphe for wearability.

[BigAppleBill]

I love the novelty of the Zeitwerk and I’ve contemplated it on and off. But if you’re considering the Zeitwerk, the watch you should be comparing it to is the Journe Vagabondage II or III. The Zeitwerk is more complicated, with many more parts than the Vagabondage, but Francois-Paul Journe made the Vagabondage much more streamlined and wearable. If/when the day comes that I will add such a novelty piece to my collection, the most difficult choice would be between the V II or V III. The Zeitwerk is a thing of beauty, especially through the case back, but it’s too much of a hockey puck for my taste.

The Centigraphe is a helluva watch with chronograph precision to 1/100th of a second, which is cool. But it should be compared to other chronographs. That said, I would choose the Centigraphe any day over the Zeitwerk.

[BigAppleBill]

Originally Posted by Cozmopak

Chanel owns 20 percent of Journe. Eventually it may not be independent at all. I would definitely not base your decision on this.

The reason FP Journe sold a 20 percent stake to the privately held Chanel, was actually to strengthen and ensure the independence of the FP Journe brand well into the future.

[Cozmopak]

Originally Posted by BigAppleBill

The reason FP Journe sold a 20 percent stake to the privately held Chanel, was actually to strengthen and ensure the independence of the FP Journe brand well into the future.

That may or may not be true. You really have no idea as to the inner workings of a company. Regardless, it shouldn’t inform your decision, in my opinion.

[shafran]

My favorite watch in my collection.

[BigAppleBill]

Originally Posted by Cozmopak

That may or may not be true. You really have no idea as to the inner workings of a company. Regardless, it shouldn’t inform your decision, in my opinion.

It is true. There’s an old thread with this very discussion. That thread has links to an article where Francois-Paul Journe gave that very reason for selling a small stake to his friends who privately own Chanel. It was about preserving the future independence of the FP Journe brand. I’m too lazy to find the old thread. Maybe you or someone else can find it.

[Cozmopak]

Originally Posted by BigAppleBill

It is true. There’s an old thread with this very discussion. That thread has links to an article where Francois-Paul Journe gave that very reason for selling a small stake to his friends who privately own Chanel. It was about preserving the future independence of the FP Journe brand. I’m too lazy to find the old thread. Maybe you or someone else can find it.

I’m not denying that it might be true. I’m just saying that neither you or I know the precise business dealings of this company. Believing what Journe tells the public regarding this decision isn’t something that I do.

They may remain independent forever, or they may not. Basing a decision on whether to buy a watch because the maker is independent at the moment seems like a risky proposition. But that’s just me.

[BigAppleBill]

Originally Posted by Cozmopak

I’m not denying that it might be true. I’m just saying that neither you or I know the precise business dealings of this company. Believing what Journe tells the public regarding this decision isn’t something that I do.

They may remain independent forever, or they may not. Basing a decision on whether to buy a watch because the maker is independent at the moment seems like a risky proposition. But that’s just me.

You do you, my friend. All the best!

[ts3]

Originally Posted by subtona

both are amazing watches.

Centigraphe more wearable. That’s enough to make it a simple choice for me.

+1

[mps354]

I have owned both, I still own the zeitwerk. In my view both Lange and Journe are top notch brands. Whereas the zeitwerk is one of the best langes out there, I like quite a few journes better than the centigraphe.

[eviperman]

Originally Posted by Cozmopak

I’m not denying that it might be true. I’m just saying that neither you or I know the precise business dealings of this company. Believing what Journe tells the public regarding this decision isn’t something that I do.

There's a reason I had hoped you'd stay away from the FP Journe brand and buy a Lange instead...

If you actively choose to disregard what Mr Journe himself has stated publicly about his own company and ignore his clear and detailed reasons for selling 20% to Chanel then you don't understand the man behind the brand.

As for the OP's query, as others have said, the Centigraphe and Zeitwerk are 2 very different watches. You need to try them on and see which one you prefer. The Centigraphe is much easier to wear, and if it's going to be a daily wearer or in a small rotation I'd recommend this... if you have many watches and may only wear the watch once a week and just enjoy looking at the movement and playing with it then the Zeitwerk would be fine. At the moment, I'd also say the Centigraphe is incredible value in the aftermarket, and I wouldn't expect this to continue due to the fact it has been discontinued.

Either way, both are great options

[Dlong]

There is an article on the Zeitwerk in this months issue of Watch Time. It is a funky looking watch but the more you look at it, it grows on you. I think it is very cool and interesting. Ain't cheap.

[Cozmopak]

Originally Posted by eviperman

There's a reason I had hoped you'd stay away from the FP Journe brand and buy a Lange instead...

If you actively choose to disregard what Mr Journe himself has stated publicly about his own company and ignore his clear and detailed reasons for selling 20% to Chanel then you don't understand the man behind the brand.

As for the OP's query, as others have said, the Centigraphe and Zeitwerk are 2 very different watches. You need to try them on and see which one you prefer. The Centigraphe is much easier to wear, and if it's going to be a daily wearer or in a small rotation I'd recommend this... if you have many watches and may only wear the watch once a week and just enjoy looking at the movement and playing with it then the Zeitwerk would be fine. At the moment, I'd also say the Centigraphe is incredible value in the aftermarket, and I wouldn't expect this to continue due to the fact it has been discontinued.

Either way, both are great options

For me, watches are a fun hobby, nothing more, nothing less. The only emotion that they invoke in me is joy. What detracts from that joy is blindly drinking the koolaid of any one brand.

[eviperman]

Originally Posted by Cozmopak

What detracts from that joy is blindly drinking the koolaid of any one brand.

Blindly? I wouldn't call having direct conversations with the man behind the company about this matter and reading his and the company's media releases being blind. It's called being informed.

If you spent a bit more time learning about Mr Journe and Montres Journe you might respect them both more, rather than view someone defending their statements as "blindly drinking the koolaid". And yes, for the record, I have incredible respect for Mr Journe and Montres Journe, and when Mr Journe publicly or privately states something, I believe it.

[Lo100169]

Like the OP, i reduced my short list to Lange and FPJ when i decided to go for a high end watch that is now my daily wear.
Part of the decision was related to what brand DNA i was preferring, both brands offering a very respectable choice. Lange for me is more about history, tradition and high en finish, while Journe is more about innovation, wearable pieces, strong design choices... I think listening and reading what Journe does with his brand has nothing to do with marketing, he is the man behind the watch, not a CEO who is just running the business, and in this, being independent certainly gives him more freedom to do things without compromising on anything.
You can guess what was my choice, but DNA was not enough, I need to like everything on a particular watch, and for me it was the superb design of the blue hands, the dial with its printed numbers, the date with the 2 numbers flush to the dial, the low profile case that makes it perfect for everyday wear, the curved springbars, the red gold movement....

You cannot go wrong whatever you choose between those 2 brands, good luck with it!

[Jay (Eire)]

Back to the original question:

As others have said, it’s a impossible task to put these two watches in a “this or that” given how vastly different they are.

No choice is a bad choice here in terms of horological weight; these are both big hitters.

I love the ZW, I have tried it on my wrist in all metals many many times since it’s launch. It doesn’t fit me, or it’s a little bit of a push maybe. But I keep coming back to it and I’m sure will again. It’s just a very bold and striking watch especially with the black dial. I had toyed for years about selling my Dato and buying the ZW. The ZW, interestingly, is a smaller and thinner watch than the modern Dato but the case construction which lacks the step back the Dato has on the reverse and the more rounded bezel of the Dato makes the ZW wear far larger.

I own a Centigraphe, and several other FPJ.

For me, it all comes down to your wrist and if you can carry the ZW easily. I can’t, it could never therefore be a daily for me.

If you can comfortably wear both watches then which pulls you more. For me, it’d be the ZW for sure.

Now, as mentioned above, you could bring a Vagabondage into the equation. More subtle than the ZW, at least the directly comparable VII with jump hours and minutes, and easily a daily wearer.

Great “problem” to have; two fantastic watches.


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[raclaims]

I love Journe but I bought one for my wife and the thing just can't tell time...sent it back 2 times...I've never had that issue with any other brand other than JLC.

[ChaseATX]

I picked up the centigraphe last week and haven’t been able to take it off. That Lange is also on my short list. The Chrono is a lot of fun to watch and the power reserve isn’t so terrible at 3 days. And it get’s the full reserve.


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[Jp28]

Thanks for the comments from owners of these.
I have focused on these two as I see them both as having a certain ‘X factor’ beyond most others at this level.
I wear a ROO 44 a lot so I think I can manage the Zeitwerk, though the straight lugs don’t help I think, but the service cost is at extremely painful level. Am thinking more the Centigraph at present as I can see it being worn a lot at work given its dimensions. Trouble is finding one in Europe is not so as easy as a few moths back.

[Cozmopak]

Originally Posted by Jp28

Thanks for the comments from owners of these.
I have focused on these two as I see them both as having a certain ‘X factor’ beyond most others at this level.
I wear a ROO 44 a lot so I think I can manage the Zeitwerk, though the straight lugs don’t help I think, but the service cost is at extremely painful level. Am thinking more the Centigraph at present as I can see it being worn a lot at work given its dimensions. Trouble is finding one in Europe is not so as easy as a few moths back.

What are the service costs for Zeitwerk?

[Jp28]

Originally Posted by Cozmopak

What are the service costs for Zeitwerk?

€5k

[hideki4]

Originally Posted by Cozmopak

Chanel owns 20 percent of Journe. Eventually it may not be independent at all. I would definitely not base your decision on this.

Chanel itself is an independent company and Journe and the owner of a Chanel are friends. It was done to ensure longevity of the brand not selling its soul like Richemont just inventing old defunct brands out of the ashes of ww2.

[gretch6364]

The Zeitwerk date is absolutely killer. In my dreams I wear it as my daily driver.

[johnnytx]

I currently own each of these models, and it’s a toss up. The Journe is thinner, and I do I have small/medium wrists...that being said I wear them about equally. I think the Zeitwerk is more interesting overall. Journe is independent, though with Chanel’s backing. Lange’s movement architecture and finish are a bit more impressive through the case back.

You can go tit for tat like this all day. In the end, I believe both are serious pieces that I very much enjoy in the collection. I would say that the Zeitwerk feels a little more important historically than this particular Journe.


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