Rolex 16760 Fat Lady Dial Variations

[037]

Originally Posted by saskmh

8.5 would be too late for a “no date” dial

I disagree with this. While doing research, I've found many 8.5~8.6 serials with non-date dials. It's not likely that sellers would have hunted down these dials just to swap in for sale, given how rare the dials are in the first place. Collectors aren't falling over themselves for non-date dials so it hasn't yet fallen victim to rampant parts swapping. Also keep in mind that Rolex built watches using dials from many vendors and used parts randomly during production. There was no set changeover to non-date dials other than when parts would have run out in late '84. It's possible to see a non-date dial on a watch with a higher serial than a date dial.

Plus, I own a non-date that came from the second owner and is known with reasonable certainty that the dial and hands are 100% original to the watch. It's an 8.6m serial and still within the 1984 range per many serial number charts. The latest I've personally seen is 8.6x and slightly higher than my own serial. 8.6 seems to be the last of the last, however.

There are also two variations of the non-date dial. One has a wider coronet and no hyphen between GMT and MASTER II. These are more prone to spider cracking. The other has a hyphen and standard coronet. These are more prone to going to an even matte finish without cracking.

[Cheld]

Originally Posted by saskmh

As for the possible MK 4 dial (the one Orchi refers to as the MK3) where the SCOC fonts are serif fonts, I have not seen definite evidence to support this variation but I won't rule it out yet as a possible fourth variation.

Thanks

My 16760 has serif SCOC and unaligned I.

[saskmh]

Originally Posted by 037

I disagree with this. While doing research, I've found many 8.5~8.6 serials with non-date dials. It's not likely that sellers would have hunted down these dials just to swap in for sale, given how rare the dials are in the first place. Collectors aren't falling over themselves for non-date dials so it hasn't yet fallen victim to rampant parts swapping. Also keep in mind that Rolex built watches using dials from many vendors and used parts randomly during production. There was no set changeover to non-date dials other than when parts would have run out in late '84. It's possible to see a non-date dial on a watch with a higher serial than a date dial.

Plus, I own a non-date that came from the second owner and is known with reasonable certainty that the dial and hands are 100% original to the watch. It's an 8.6m serial and still within the 1984 range per many serial number charts. The latest I've personally seen is 8.6x and slightly higher than my own serial. 8.6 seems to be the last of the last, however.

There are also two variations of the non-date dial. One has a wider coronet and no hyphen between GMT and MASTER II. These are more prone to spider cracking. The other has a hyphen and standard coronet. These are more prone to going to an even matte finish without cracking.

Interesting. I'll have to add to the list.

[Tavli3]

Originally Posted by 037

I disagree with this. While doing research, I've found many 8.5~8.6 serials with non-date dials. It's not likely that sellers would have hunted down these dials just to swap in for sale, given how rare the dials are in the first place. Collectors aren't falling over themselves for non-date dials so it hasn't yet fallen victim to rampant parts swapping. Also keep in mind that Rolex built watches using dials from many vendors and used parts randomly during production. There was no set changeover to non-date dials other than when parts would have run out in late '84. It's possible to see a non-date dial on a watch with a higher serial than a date dial.

Plus, I own a non-date that came from the second owner and is known with reasonable certainty that the dial and hands are 100% original to the watch. It's an 8.6m serial and still within the 1984 range per many serial number charts. The latest I've personally seen is 8.6x and slightly higher than my own serial. 8.6 seems to be the last of the last, however.

There are also two variations of the non-date dial. One has a wider coronet and no hyphen between GMT and MASTER II. These are more prone to spider cracking. The other has a hyphen and standard coronet. These are more prone to going to an even matte finish without cracking.

As a matter of fact there is one exactly as you describe with no hyphen and a spider cracked dial on ebay.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/1984-Rolex-...f973%7Ciid%3A1

[Steve N]

I'm a bit confused when I see all these serial numbers beginning 8*** or 9***
I bought my 16760 in 1988 and the serial number is R 38****

Why would this be the case, am I missing something ?

[Waterproofpt]

Originally Posted by Steve N

I'm a bit confused when I see all these serial numbers beginning 8*** or 9***

I bought my 16760 in 1988 and the serial number is R 38****



Why would this be the case, am I missing something ?

As far as I know, In 1987, and once they reached 9,999,999 serial #, rather than go to an 8 digit number, they started using letters and then a number. And ... 1987, for whatever reason, the letter was R.
So supposedly yours, bought in 1988, would have been a 1987 production. 1988 was L.


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[Juhuatai]

Originally Posted by Waterproofpt

As far as I know, In 1987, and once they reached 9,999,999 serial #, rather than go to an 8 digit number, they started using letters and then a number. And ... 1987, for whatever reason, the letter was R.
So supposedly yours, bought in 1988, would have been a 1987 production. 1988 was L.


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1988 was R as well.

[springer]

Originally Posted by Waterproofpt

As far as I know, In 1987, and once they reached 9,999,999 serial #, rather than go to an 8 digit number, they started using letters and then a number. And ... 1987, for whatever reason, the letter was R.
So supposedly yours, bought in 1988, would have been a 1987 production. 1988 was L.


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The reason they went with R after they ran out of numbered prefixes for serial numbers was this:

Rolex decided to use the letters from Rolex as the new serial numbered watches for each year. They used RLEX without the O - which could have been confused with a 0 (zero).

R serials first, then the next year they began with L, next year was E and so on. Last year was X for the ROLEX letters - minus the O which wasn't used.

[Waterproofpt]

Originally Posted by springer

The reason they went with R after they ran out of numbered prefixes for serial numbers was this:



Rolex decided to use the letters from Rolex as the new serial numbered watches for each year. They used RLEX without the O - which could have been confused with a 0 (zero).



R serials first, then the next year they began with L, next year was E and so on. Last year was X for the ROLEX letters - minus the O which wasn't used.

Very cool. As often is the case @Springer, you are the master of details.


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[csbracc]

Hi all, any information on MK1 dials with no hyphen between GMT and MASTER II? Were these made by Stern perhaps? Is this feature unique to the 16760 in the GMT line (I believe the 16660 has the same feature).
Thx

[Turbo Racer]

Great information on this thread. I’m learning about these watches. Trying to find a super clean watch.

For the guys that have had both, can you chime in to what you like about each? Pros and cons of the 16760 vs 16710?

I have the 16710 and like it a lot.

[Cooper33]

Originally Posted by Turbo Racer

Great information on this thread. I’m learning about these watches. Trying to find a super clean watch.

For the guys that have had both, can you chime in to what you like about each? Pros and cons of the 16760 vs 16710?

I have the 16710 and like it a lot.

I have a non-date 16760 and love it. Being the first iteration of the GMT II makes it a winner for me. Also, no questions about the bezel for this reference - it's always a coke!

[jeanclaude]

hello congrats
Could you please tell me what the reference of the box if you still have it . Mine is ref 8455xxx but no box tks a lot cheers jc

[TimeToGo]

Even rarer naked...
.

[springer]

Originally Posted by jeanclaude

hello congrats
Could you please tell me what the reference of the box if you still have it . Mine is ref 8455xxx but no box tks a lot cheers jc

Here's the box set used during the early to mid 1980s for sets sold outside of the USA. This includes the GMT 16760 and 16750 and other Rolex models as well.

[Tavli3]

Here’s mine from 84. These are under the radar and under appreciated. Still time to pick one up before the hype train leaves the station.



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[snipecmoi]

Hello Guys,
I am the proud and happy owner of a 9.1 Mill (which makes it 1985 I guess) Fat Lady on Jubilee bracelet, and while I was looking at it in depth, I couldn't help but see that the dial of mine doesn't seem to match any of those I've seen in that topic.

As you can see on the attached pic, the writing looks more silvery than white as on all of the other 16760 dial pics I have seen so far, also, the "circle" at the bottom of the crown looks very tiny compared to other 16760 dials I've seen so far
What do you guys think about this dial ? Is it original ? is it a service one ?

[springer]

An update to this older thread regarding the "no date" 16760 dials. (No-date dials were missing the word "date" after the Oyster Perpetual writing.)

Below are the two variations of the "no date" 16760 dial. Since these have not but numbered anywhere in the past, I will refer to them in my photos as the Mark 1a and Mark 1b "no date" GMT 16760 early dials.

If you look at them closely, there are several variations - the most notable being the style of the dial coronets and the absence of the hyphen between GMT and Master on the 1b dial.

These are early 16760 dials, probably found mostly on the early 16760s in the lower early numbers and continuing up to the late 8.4 million range of serial numbers.

[Tavli3]

Thanks Springer never knew there were two versions
I have the 1a. Good to know.


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[Cooper33]

I also have the 1a. It turned completely matte, love it!