Grand Seiko Opinions?

[wrightbrain]

You can talk about the quality and finishing all day long, but they still take too much of a nose dive in the second hand market.

[inzite]

Originally Posted by wrightbrain

You can talk about the quality and finishing all day long, but they still take too much of a nose dive in the second hand market.

LOL! I guess some do see watches as watches but not bills strapped on their wrist. IMO watches are luxurious disposable items and should not be seen as an item with high resale value after purchase, just like most cars ;), there are better things to buy than watches if considering second hand market.

[Wolfgang_]

I love Grand Seiko. I love wearing a watch that to others, is just "another Seiko", but for me is so much more.

I sold my BLNR (Which I never got to love as much as expected) to get a SBGJ001, and haven't looked back for one second (or 10 beats )



Don't worry though. I still got my Datejust II, so I am not totally Rolex-less

[wrightbrain]

Originally Posted by inzite

LOL! I guess some do see watches as watches but not bills strapped on their wrist. IMO watches are luxurious disposable items and should not be seen as an item with high resale value after purchase, just like most cars ;), there are better things to buy than watches if considering second hand market.

Not many things that can be enjoyed every day and then sold for the same price you bought them for.

[tom2517]

Originally Posted by 4Panerais

Who purchases timepieces to impress others

Sent from Galaxy S6 Edge using Tapatalk

Thought that's the whole point of buying watches???

[inzite]

Originally Posted by wrightbrain

Not many things that can be enjoyed every day and then sold for the same price you bought them for.

for GS, the second hand market price will depend on the model you bought - which is fairly true for most brands. Quite frankly, one should buy the piece they love and not the piece that holds the most second hand value IMO. And I think there are more things to consider than how much your watch is worth on the second hand market. For me, I would not pay the going market price and buy the plain stainless sub which almost everyone in my area has regardless of how the resales of this model does, it's just not special enough. ;)

[Tseg]

Originally Posted by wrightbrain

You can talk about the quality and finishing all day long, but they still take too much of a nose dive in the second hand market.

I don't think I've ever bought a watch to sell it.

[Psmith]

Originally Posted by wrightbrain

Not many things that can be enjoyed every day and then sold for the same price you bought them for.

Including Rolex watches.

[Tseg]

Originally Posted by daveathall

What an absolutely stunning, stunning pair of watches, many congratulations. Beautiful. Top notch photography as well.

Originally Posted by Psmith

Beautiful - congrats Tom

Thanks guys. There is a lot I like about the GS SBGJ001. In the early days I have noticed myself misreading the GMT hand for the hour hand once or twice... may just be a matter of getting used to it. I never had that issue with the BLNR as the GMT hand is more low-key. Nonetheless, it is a great, sporty yet dressy watch with a bit of a DateJust feel. I'll keep it.

[dera]

Originally Posted by wrightbrain

You can talk about the quality and finishing all day long, but they still take too much of a nose dive in the second hand market.

That's because in Europe and the US importers/ADs have inflated the new prices sky high.

A brand new SBGJ001 in Japan is around 4800USD. You can sell those second hand at 4,x all day long. Hardly a nosedive.

[PJ S]

The EU and US ‘distributors’ are subsidiaries of Seiko Japan – the price is inflated to cover currency fluctuations as well as market positioning, and probably the higher associated costs of commerce in the West.

I’ve said it before, probably elsewhere, that if a regular buyer walks into the store with a budget in mind and knowing of the main players (Omega/Rolex, if you showed him a Grand Seiko for nearer to what it costs in Japan, he’ll dismiss it because we’re all conditioned to perceive cost with quality.
Ergo, if something costs less, it can’t be as good (never mind better) than that which costs more – it’s Veblen marketing 101.

[tom2517]

Originally Posted by PJ S

The EU and US ‘distributors’ are subsidiaries of Seiko Japan – the price is inflated to cover currency fluctuations as well as market positioning, and probably the higher associated costs of commerce in the West.

I’ve said it before, probably elsewhere, that if a regular buyer walks into the store with a budget in mind and knowing of the main players (Omega/Rolex, if you showed him a Grand Seiko for nearer to what it costs in Japan, he’ll dismiss it because we’re all conditioned to perceive cost with quality.
Ergo, if something costs less, it can’t be as good (never mind better) than that which costs more – it’s Veblen marketing 101.

Which is kind of funny since the equivalent Rolex used to cost similar to Seikos/Grand Seikos.

But the fact Seiko weren't able to raise their prices year after year like their Swiss counterparts actually lowered their perceived brand value.

[TheBluePrince]

The myth that you never lose money on a new Rolex seems to be well perpetuated these days. It may be true on some of the most sought after SS Sports models but try buying BM or PM models in any of their lines and watch the value plummet the second you walk out the AD. Same goes for the majority of non-sports SS models too.

[powerfunk]

Originally Posted by tom2517

the fact Seiko weren't able to raise their prices year after year like their Swiss counterparts actually lowered their perceived brand value.

I don't think Grand Seiko's perception has been "lowered" in the past decade at all. I, and probably many of us here, had never heard of Grand Seiko ten years ago. Now basically every thread on the internet about high-end watches mentions GS in a glowing light.

The whole "Veblen" concept is silly and over-repeated imho. The demand for goods can be increased by exclusivity, but price is just one factor of that; in a competitive space like luxury watches, high prices need to be justifiable or else your msrp will become a sarcastic starting point (like so many other watch brands).

[daveathall]

Originally Posted by tom2517

Which is kind of funny since the equivalent Rolex used to cost similar to Seikos/Grand Seikos.

But the fact Seiko weren't able to raise their prices year after year like their Swiss counterparts actually lowered their perceived brand value.

You are confusing a Marinemaster with a Grand Seiko, it i not, the equivalent Grand Seiko to a Rolex sub costs about the same. Simple as that.

[dera]

Originally Posted by TheBluePrince

The myth that you never lose money on a new Rolex seems to be well perpetuated these days. It may be true on some of the most sought after SS Sports models but try buying BM or PM models in any of their lines and watch the value plummet the second you walk out the AD. Same goes for the majority of non-sports SS models too.

I recently walked out from an AD with a 116333 Wimbledon, and sold it for 15% profit a few weeks later. I made 15% even though I bought it BNIB and sold it as a second hand watch. And the buyer got it around 15% cheaper than the ones for sale on TRF today.

If you buy right, you will never lose money on any new Rolex.
Buying right is the problem.

[dera]

Originally Posted by powerfunk

in a competitive space like luxury watches, high prices need to be justifiable or else your msrp will become a sarcastic starting point (like so many other watch brands).

Very true - just look at Invicta and their MSRPs :)

[TheBluePrince]

Originally Posted by dera

I recently walked out from an AD with a 116333 Wimbledon, and sold it for 15% profit a few weeks later. I made 15% even though I bought it BNIB and sold it as a second hand watch. And the buyer got it around 15% cheaper than the ones for sale on TRF today.

If you buy right, you will never lose money on any new Rolex.
Buying right is the problem.

Buying right on any brand is the key.

I got my Grand Seiko SBGA109 highly sought after limited edition BNIB for 33% off list. I could sell it now for a profit also.

Most peoples problem is that they do understand or know how to buy right, the vast majority of watch buyers buy wrong and lose money.

[dera]

Originally Posted by TheBluePrince

Buying right on any brand is the key.

I got my Grand Seiko SBGA109 highly sought after limited edition BNIB for 33% off list. I could sell it now for a profit also.

Most peoples problem is that they do understand or know how to buy right, the vast majority of watch buyers buy wrong and lose money.

That's the anniversary model with engraved rehaut? One of my favorite GS references, congrats!

This forum is full of information on how to buy wrong, no wonder people don't know how to buy...

[TheBluePrince]

Originally Posted by dera

That's the anniversary model with engraved rehaut? One of my favorite GS references, congrats!

This forum is full of information on how to buy wrong, no wonder people don't know how to buy...

Yes, that's the one, I think I posted a few pics on a previous page of this thread...

My favourite quote on here is always "Buy from one of our trusted sellers!"

[Psmith]

Originally Posted by dera

I recently walked out from an AD with a 116333 Wimbledon, and sold it for 15% profit a few weeks later. I made 15% even though I bought it BNIB and sold it as a second hand watch. And the buyer got it around 15% cheaper than the ones for sale on TRF today.

If you buy right, you will never lose money on any new Rolex.
Buying right is the problem.

Selling right is also the problem.

The scenario described - buying BNIB with enough discount to turn a profit - is not specific to Rolex.
For the vast majority of customers, achieving 30% discount on any Rolex, let alone a SS sports model, is not going to be possible.

[dera]

Originally Posted by TheBluePrince

My favourite quote on here is always "Buy from one of our trusted sellers!"

I'm glad I'm not the only one... :)

[Maxy]

Originally Posted by wrightbrain

You can talk about the quality and finishing all day long, but they still take too much of a nose dive in the second hand market.

Lets compare with other 'dress' watches like Zenith, JLC, etc and you'll be suprised!

[inzite]

Originally Posted by dera

That's the anniversary model with engraved rehaut? One of my favorite GS references, congrats!

This forum is full of information on how to buy wrong, no wonder people don't know how to buy...

pretty much.

I got my SBGJ005 for about 5.5k USD, the last I check they now go for alot more, pretty big profit :D and thats if it even comes up for sale.

[dera]

Originally Posted by inzite

pretty much.

I got my SBGJ005 for about 5.5k USD, the last I check they now go for alot more, pretty big profit :D and thats if it even comes up for sale.

Nice catch, that green dial is incredible!

I bought a watch a few weeks ago for my wife. It retails for just under $8k, from "trusted sellers" you can get the same for "$6,195.00" (direct copypaste from a sales ad, ref 178274), I paid $4650 for it. BNIB, AD, bottle of water, my name on papers and so on.

Forgive my scepticism against the trusted sellers, but I just don't see the value.

As a segway to Grand Seikos. If everyone tells you to buy it at assumed retail, then tells you how bad they do on the secondary market - while you could buy the same thing for 50% off...

[madmax21]

Originally Posted by Tseg

Oh no you di-int? Tag? I encourage you to do some more research.

Sorry guys what I really meant to say was that I feel they look a lot like some of the tag watches. I didn't mean quality.

[madmax21]

Originally Posted by dera

Nice catch, that green dial is incredible!

I bought a watch a few weeks ago for my wife. It retails for just under $8k, from "trusted sellers" you can get the same for "$6,195.00" (direct copypaste from a sales ad, ref 178274), I paid $4650 for it. BNIB, AD, bottle of water, my name on papers and so on.

Forgive my scepticism against the trusted sellers, but I just don't see the value.

As a segway to Grand Seikos. If everyone tells you to buy it at assumed retail, then tells you how bad they do on the secondary market - while you could buy the same thing for 50% off...

I am interested in buying one at this point truthfully I'm not super happy with Rolex after purchase service here in Canada. Frankly they screw things up from time to time never admit to any wrong doing. I'm kind of fed up with it, I'm a firm believer that we shouldn't be looking at my name on a watch.

I stopped buying cars like that years ago I have a feeling that in a couple of years these watches will hold their value and may even be worth more than some Rolex that was bought at same time. Thick discounts normally cause the value diminish and frankly I think it's happening to Rolex right now with all the resellers gray market watches out there in a few years their value will diminish and a brand like Grand Seiko might be the one everyone wants.

[PJ S]

Originally Posted by madmax21

Sorry guys what I really meant to say was that I feel they look a lot like some of the tag watches. I didn't mean quality.

If you keep digging that hole any deeper, you’ll make it to Australia soon.
Post up images of which TAGs look like a Grand Seiko, because I can’t think of ever looking at one and thinking it looks just like the other.

[madmax21]

Originally Posted by PJ S

If you keep digging that hole any deeper, you’ll make it to Australia soon.
Post up images of which TAGs look like a Grand Seiko, because I can’t think of ever looking at one and thinking it looks just like the other.

I personally feel that some of the Carrera line of tags do resemble some of the grand Sekio. Take for example SBGHOO5 and WAR201A. BA07223. Almost forgot Australia or even the UK would be nice especially when I compare with the weather we're having here in Canada

[PJ S]

I think you’re talking just about the lugs and bracelet, which I’ll give you that if you look at it fleetingly.
If there was one thing I wouldn’t mind GS being compared with TAG over, is their deployant, although it does mean an almost too thin strap.
I’ll give credit where it’s due – TAG Heuer sure can design a nice looking watch, but unfortunately their reliability doesn’t match with the looks and pricing.