A. Lange & Söhne Sports Watch

[JR16]

Originally Posted by Russell996

Recently had lunch (twice) with Wilhelm Schmid - I would suggest Lange has a very clear plan moving forward for it's pieces and distribution. I will say no more other than the move to a Boutique distribution model and no discounting is clear for all to see.

Yes , this is what I was told as well. Just not sure it’s going to be enough to turn things around without more competitive pricing. Those price increases were killers IMO.


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[Russell996]

Originally Posted by JR16

Yes , this is what I was told as well. Just not sure it’s going to be enough to turn things around without more competitive pricing. Those price increases were killers IMO.


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I honestly don’t think price is the issue at 5000 pieces per year and in fact it wouldn’t surprise me if prices go up. People will pay for the pinnacle of watch making especially if volume is low and they know discounting is a thing of the past - ‘quality’ ‘quality’ ‘quality’ and no compromise.

[JR16]

Originally Posted by Russell996

I honestly don’t think price is the issue at 5000 pieces per year and in fact it wouldn’t surprise me if prices go up. People will pay for the pinnacle of watch making especially if volume is low and they know discounting is a thing of the past - ‘quality’ ‘quality’ ‘quality’ and no compromise.

You may be right, but outside of watch enthusiasts I’m not sure the average person knows or appreciates Lange’s watchmaking prowess compared to PP, for example, as marketing has not been Lange’s strong suit and the history just isn’t there compared to some other companies like PP. With that said, maybe watch enthusiasts are enough to support a 5000 watch/year manufacture if some
of these things (including reigning in deep discounting) can be fixed. With some new leadership and a new sports watch launching, i am definitely excited for the brand. Only time will tell I suppose.


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[jtli202]

Originally Posted by Russell996

Recently had lunch (twice) with Wilhelm Schmid - I would suggest Lange has a very clear plan moving forward for it's pieces and distribution. I will say no more other than the move to a Boutique distribution model and no discounting is clear for all to see.

Originally Posted by Russell996

I honestly don’t think price is the issue at 5000 pieces per year and in fact it wouldn’t surprise me if prices go up. People will pay for the pinnacle of watch making especially if volume is low and they know discounting is a thing of the past - ‘quality’ ‘quality’ ‘quality’ and no compromise.

That is awesome, did he talk mentioned anything about Lange ramping up their marketing campaign? Lange, in my opinion, makes the best serially produced dress watches but their brand equity is lacking, which is extremely important in the luxury market. Look at what Richard Mille is doing.

I don't think it's a pricing issue, as most Lange is priced competitively. For example, the 2nd Gen RG Dato is ~$70K, which is in line with Pateks 5170J/G and Vacheron's Cornes de Vache. While those are pure chronos, the dato has a date and PR complication. If you were to look at just chronographs, the 1815 is a great valuable prop at $55k vs. those two. Also, the first two watches don't retain value that well either and you can get them for $45-50k used, whereas the RG dato the cheapest I've seen is $50k and 1815 chrono 3rd gens usually go for $40-45k.

The Saxonia at 37mm is a great value prop and cheaper than any of patek or vacheron's time only dress pieces (in noble metals). I do think that the 1815 and 1815 u/d is slightly overpriced for what it is, same can maybe be said for the Lange 1 line.

So all in all, I don't think it's a pricing issue but a brand awareness issue. They need to step up their marketing campaign and build awareness.

[PJ S]

I love how this Lange Sport watch thread has become the Lange & Sohne demise thread due to their financial shortfall!
Stating the glaringly obvious, Lange’s finances are not dictated by the lack of each watch sold selling at full MSRP – the bulk of their sales are through ADs, so their profit is locked in once those invoices are settled.
We don’t know the annual running costs of the manufacturing site, the boutique overheads, and what toll the R&D budget has taken – so all this talk of financial dire straits is only worth being broached when boutiques start closing left, right, and centre.

As for the issue being brand awareness… do you really think so?
How many of you are aware of Grand Seiko? H Moser & Cie? De Bethune?
So why haven’t you bought any of their pieces?
Marketing is only for those who’re incapable of thinking for themselves, looking to be told what to buy instead of using their own two eyes, and brain, to figure out if they like what they see or not.
True appreciators of haute horology don’t need to be marketed to, they already know what gets their juices flowing.

[_speedmaster_]

Originally Posted by PJ S

True appreciators of haute horology don’t need to be marketed to, they already know what gets their juices flowing.

Agree to an extent.

True enthusiasts know of Lange and their high quality. They certainly don't need to be inundated with marketing.

However, the vast majority of PP sales are from people who are not WIS. They are from people who buy a PP only because it's a Patek, and marketing has guided them. It's these types of customers Lange needs to attract. We may not like it as a WIS forum, but people who don't have a clue about watches drive brand profitability and even the types of watches produced.

[Watcheroo]

Originally Posted by PJ S

True appreciators of haute horology don’t need to be marketed to, they already know what gets their juices flowing.

Will this do it? :)

[jtli202]

Originally Posted by _speedmaster_

Agree to an extent.

True enthusiasts know of Lange and their high quality. They certainly don't need to be inundated with marketing.

However, the vast majority of PP sales are from people who are not WIS. They are from people who buy a PP only because it's a Patek, and marketing has guided them. It's these types of customers Lange needs to attract. We may not like it as a WIS forum, but people who don't have a clue about watches drive brand profitability and even the types of watches produced.

I agree however the recent spike in Patek popularity is due to its sports models, which is why this upcoming release is very important for Lange.

Get it on the wrist of someone like Lebron and the sheep will follow. I don't know why the brand isn't even focusing on its native celebs. They have a lot of great football players could be brand ambassadors. No excuse for Sane to not be rocking a Lange

[JR16]

Originally Posted by _speedmaster_

Agree to an extent.



True enthusiasts know of Lange and their high quality. They certainly don't need to be inundated with marketing.



However, the vast majority of PP sales are from people who are not WIS. They are from people who buy a PP only because it's a Patek, and marketing has guided them. It's these types of customers Lange needs to attract. We may not like it as a WIS forum, but people who don't have a clue about watches drive brand profitability and even the types of watches produced.

You beat me to the reply - agree !


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[bigfatpauli]

I suppose I am alone in the room, but I actually really hope it isn't a steel sport watch.

Steel sport watches are the SUV of the watch world. Porsche should not have made one. Ferrari should not have made one. Lamborghini should not have made one. Lange should not make one.

Just because they sell well doesn't mean a company needs to make one. It is, for a brand like Lange, effectively selling out.

When I was a kid I had a poster of a Countach on my wall. It was unhinged, off the wall. Crazy. Amazing. Exciting.
It was the car dreams are made of. Now, when I see a "Lambo" (or whatever the kids are calling them these days) I get a very strong image of who that driver is, and it isn't a good one. I have no desire to ever own one and be associated with their clientele*. The brand changed and is really tarnished in my eyes.

But that's me. And an SUV can fit all the kids hockey gear.

Is this the beginning of the end for Lange (for me)? Maybe. Let's see.

The one exception would be a throw back pilot watch. An all around generic "go anywhere do anything" watch a la 5711 or Royal Oak or diver is a big no from me.


*I have a close friend who has an Aventador and he agrees that the worst part about driving one is knowing who else is driving one.

[watchucallit]

I was invited to a dinner with the CEO of Lange next month but cannot make it due to other travel... would love to hear more details.

[Fat_ninja]

Originally Posted by PJ S

I love how this Lange Sport watch thread has become the Lange & Sohne demise thread due to their financial shortfall!
.

Lol

[benlee]

Looking forward to see it. Though I am concerned the more they drum up hype, the higher the expectation and then more the disappointment when it doesn't live up. Sounds familiar to something that has recently happened to another brand.

[David5807]

Originally Posted by benlee

Looking forward to see it. Though I am concerned the more they drum up hype, the higher the expectation and then more the disappointment when it doesn't live up. Sounds familiar to something that has recently happened to another brand.

Well said Let's hope that this isn't another code 11:59

[MichaelFlash]

Originally Posted by watchucallit

I was invited to a dinner with the CEO of Lange next month but cannot make it due to other travel... would love to hear more details.

I wonder if Mr. Schmid will invite me to dinner if I get a Datograph?

[impinth06]

Originally Posted by David5807

Well said Let's hope that this isn't another code 11:59

Well, the 11:59 was first a dress watch, and second no SS

Good luck ALS

[David5807]

Originally Posted by impinth06

Well, the 11:59 was first a dress watch, and second no SS

Good luck ALS

Correct, but from what I can recall the initial hype for the watch was that it may have been a new SS sports piece. Either way, I think a lot of people are getting excited about this being a really cool sports watch and are just hoping not to get let down as so many of us were by the 1159.

[anselm]

Originally Posted by watchucallit

I was invited to a dinner with the CEO of Lange next month but cannot make it due to other travel... would love to hear more details.

Too bad you can’t make it. I had dinner with him in Dresden and he is a genuine down to earth guy. Plus he is a car guy!

Can’t wait for the launch this Friday.

[David5807]

Originally Posted by MichaelFlash

I wonder if Mr. Schmid will invite me to dinner if I get a Datograph?

Even if he won't you'll still have a Datograph

[Russell996]

Originally Posted by anselm

Too bad you can’t make it. I had dinner with him in Dresden and he is a genuine down to earth guy. Plus he is a car guy!

Can’t wait for the launch this Thursday.

👍 Genuine petrol head.

[Reign]

Two more days for the blue dial

[MichaelFlash]

Originally Posted by David5807

Even if he won't you'll still have a Datograph

[Watcheroo]

There are invites for an event on Thursday. Has anyone else gotten anything like this? Wondering if they’ll be showing the new release...

[Ceaiu]

From insta

[DoraTheExplorerII]

According to the new Instagram teaser, it will have the day at 9 (and logically the date at 3), and a multi-textured blue dial. The day only shows two letters at a time, which is something new.

Someone on another site leaked that it will be 41mm but don't know if that can be verified.

[Ceaiu]

Originally Posted by DoraTheExplorerII

According to the new Instagram teaser, it will have the day at 9 (and logically the date at 3), and a multi-textured blue dial. The day only shows two letters at a time, which is something new.

Someone on another site leaked that it will be 41mm but don't know if that can be verified.

Can be at 8 or 10... and played us with the camera angle
although the twin indexes suggest 9.

[Reign]

Originally Posted by Ceaiu

Can be at 8 or 10... and played us with the camera angle
although the twin indexes suggest 9.

It’s at 9p. The date is at 3p. It has the same shape as the PP 5960 and even a very similar bracelet as the 5960 (all sans pushers of course since there’s no chrono function). The ALS logo is a half moon that runs across the top half of the dial.


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[AK797]

Blue and SS, looks like they are on trend...

[BDL]

This is going to be interesting.......

From the prior Insta post it could have a "insertable" crown like the new OMEGA seamaster Ti golf watch.

[mongrelnomoad]

Originally Posted by DoraTheExplorerII

Someone on another site leaked that it will be 41mm but don't know if that can be verified.

I bloody well hope not. I'm holding out on this being 38-40mm (preferably closer to 38), cos everyone else's sport watch is too bloody big.

Hear that PP? How about bringing back the 38mm sports watches?!?!