Grey Dealers - Do you Like Them: Yes or No?

[illiguy]

Given spate of recent discussions on ADs, availability (or lack thereof), and secondary market prices ... want to get quantitative feedback on how people feel about the grey market.

[Mr Kram]

I have no problem with them. the grey market is what it is. manufactures create scarcity and buyers determine the prices. simple supply and demand.

[AK797]

Not a black or white issue for me...

[Zakalwe]

Never bought from one. Almost certainly never will.

I can’t criticise them though, they provide a useful watch test drive service for me. For free.

[illiguy]

I've bought grey from TRF trusted sellers and local greys with success. I've also purchased a few watches from Rolex ADs. I find the greys to be market makers or fast-followers who provide liquidity (and in the pre-bubble, at discount), even though I much prefer to buy from ADs for cleaner provenance and, moreover, MSRP.

[LesserBlackDog]

I neither like nor dislike grey market dealers. In many instances, I've been able to buy watches well below MSRP thanks to grey market dealers.

But I think it's silly that people act like greys are some kind of heroes for offering "access" to "rare" pieces at highly inflated premiums. The greys aren't doing us favors on these watches, they're in it for a buck.

[illiguy]

Originally Posted by lesserblackdog

i neither like nor dislike grey market dealers. In many instances, i've been able to buy watches well below msrp thanks to grey market dealers.

But i think it's silly that people act like greys are some kind of heroes for offering "access" to "rare" pieces at highly inflated premiums. The greys aren't doing us favors on these watches, they're in it for a buck.

100%

[rmlovett1]

Have 0 problem with greys. Have done many successful deals with TRF sellers over the past few years. Like any other products you buy or businesses you deal with....if you don’t like their product or their prices....move along

[pumpkinpot]

Originally Posted by AK797

Not a black or white issue for me...

[VanAdian]

“Like” is a strong word. I like that they provide access to pieces that would be otherwise unobtainable in this market. I like the ability to buy something without the need for a superficial relationship, expectations that I pander, and beg to spend my money, and then to still be left with the uncertainty of actually getting the watch in the foreseeable future. I dislike the current premium required to bypass the afore mentioned absurdity. I would be more comfortable with buying what I want directly from an AD; if presented that option.

[Jakey]

I answered 'No' simply because I know of a Black Cab driver in London that spends his day going from AD to AD collecting watches which he quickly passes on for a huge profit to other retailers in the City. I also know that the sales assistants benefit from a healthy handshake. True its supply and demand but this behavior puts these watches beyond a reasonable price that the average Joe is prepared to pay.

[Mr Kram]

Originally Posted by LesserBlackDog

I neither like nor dislike grey market dealers. In many instances, I've been able to buy watches well below MSRP thanks to grey market dealers.

But I think it's silly that people act like greys are some kind of heroes for offering "access" to "rare" pieces at highly inflated premiums. The greys aren't doing us favors on these watches, they're in it for a buck.

do people really think they are heroes? that seems to be a stretch. and everyone is in it for a buck (AD or Grey).

[BigBlue1]

Originally Posted by Mr Kram

I have no problem with them. the grey market is what it is. manufactures create scarcity and buyers determine the prices. simple supply and demand.

I agree.

[RHJ]

It is market.

[Gmt21]

Originally Posted by Mr Kram

do people really think they are heroes? that seems to be a stretch. and everyone is in it for a buck (AD or Grey).

True they are not "heroes" to me - they provide a service - in it for a buck - I'd rather say "running a business."

If they were "heroes" they would be giving the stuff away!

[arcadelt]

I preferred the way they used to be: a secondary marketplace of excess and overstocked watches sold at a better price, but some time well after the watch was released into the market. The current trend of selling high demand watches siphoned from the primary marketplace at artificially inflated prices: not so much.

[enjoythemusic]

Please add Close Connections, as many of us have friends that are not AD nor really a gray dealer.

[Fat_ninja]

I have no problem with grays

[Rags]

No problem at all..

[THC]

Depends on the model... I got 2k off MSRP on my 2018 DJ41 with DSW .. thanks D

On the flip side, I would never pay twice MSRP for a watch.

Use Greys to YOUR advantage..

[Rocket_Man]

I suspect if this poll was done 2 years ago the answer would be nearly universal 'yes.' But the current market has made some watches nearly impossible to get at retail. While I appreciate the role that Trusted Seller/Grey's do to even out the supply and demand in a normal market.... in this market there is almost a desire to 'corner' the market on some watches, like the DaytonaC, SS SkyD, Pepsi GMT for example. For this behavior I also blame ADs.

This weekend I was at my AD putting a deposit down on a Blue Stick DJ41. Yes a deposit on a DJ. The sales rep tells me they will no longer take names for wait lists, it will be first come first serve. I wish it would really turn out to be this way but I don't believe them. In a sense he was telling me this as he was taking money so I can be on the waitlist for a blue stick DJ41.

[tritium8]

I've bought 2 (closing on a third) from greys. The ADs around me think they have something special and refuse to budge on price.

[pickettt]

In the luxury goods world , I’m indifferent. When it comes to other products, I abhor them.

[wantonebad]

For a manufacturer/retailer that tries to control every single aspect of the transaction and ownership for each watch and even the resale of used watches. Rebel gray dealers provide an invaluable service and I perish the thought of what this hobby might be without them. Rolex are control SUPER-FREAKS and while I love their products I couldn't be happier about their grip on the supply chain slipping just that little bit to allow grays to not only exist but thrive. JMHO

[swils8610]

I’ve actually never met any of them face to face...I’ve purchased several from them via text or email...never had an issue. Never had an issue with an AD either. If my travels ever bring where they are located I’d like to meet them. Good guys.


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[Blansky]

I just don't think about them.

There is a lot of other stuff in the world today more important to think about.

If Rolex is playing games these day, I don't really care. I've had my favorite one for the last 13 years (which is absolutely perfect)and don't need another one and there are a lot of other companies watches to buy.

[singe89]

Current market conditions aside they make for the easiest and safest way to trade or sell used watches. I hugely value them for that.

I also really don't mind them charging high prices for hard to get pieces. That's what the market will bear so be it. If you dont want to pay it then dont buy it. At least they dont play games and bundle like ADs.

Take any hard to get Rolex, Patek or AP. If I see the value in paying 125%+ of retail to get the watch now then I can have it within 24 hours. If you dont see the watch having that much value then don't buy it. The greys are also taking the risk if the bottom falls out of the market and they are stuck holding supply.

[Wesley Crusher]

Greys are great.

They offer better deals than the ADs for models that are not hot and they’re able to offer hot models (albeit at a premium) whereas if you try to buy from an AD, you may be on a waiting list for years.

When it comes to selling/trading, greys are also very fair. I recently sold an Explorer to a grey and the price that was offered to me was very fair. An AD would have offered thousands less.

[tyler1980]

Originally Posted by Wesley Crusher

Greys are great.

They offer better deals than the ADs for models that are not hot
and

they’re able to offer hot models (albeit at a premium)

devaluing the brand with discounts and simultaneously driving up prices on other models

strange way of saying its good

[tyler1980]

following up on my previous post...

Discounts hurt value retention so discounts separate hot and not hot watches and where you want to buy these watches. Resale is just as strong a motivator as how cool a watch looks. So buying at discounts then pushes the market to connect those watches as "not hot" and funnels the demand even more to the "hot watches"

You are giving yourself less choice as 95% of the time when someone is looking to buy a rolex the first question they ask here is "value retention". No one buys those at AD's if the retention is bad. So now we have successfully compressed the entire lineup into 6 watches that anyone even wants from an AD. Now everyone wants those, from the AD.

If everything was sold at MSRP no matter what, then some of the watches that are discounted 20%+ would actually be more attractive from an AD. It would probably to some extent smooth out the demand in a more uniform way, especially at the AD level. Then buyers actually have a shot at an AD purchase because they are actually customers.

You could say the secondary market both selects the dogs and hypes the hot watches. People are absolutely influenced in their buying decisions based on what the going discount is and get turned off a lot of times because its such heavily discounted model. No one wants to overpay i get that, but if everyone pays retail then every watch price is probably fair at MSRP but its not a fair price if everyone pays less elsewhere which just drives more people secondary.

Long story short discounts are why we are where we are now