Buying watch listed in Chrono 24 from Private individual

[365DAS]

Morning all,

Looking for some advice, tips and any experience stories with regards to buying a watch from a private individual listed on Chrono24.

So basically I’ve seen a watch that I’ve been after for some time and it’s one that’s no longer available to go via an official AD route and therefore having to resort down the preowned market. I’ve seen one and contacted the buyer but due to the amount, was keen to go and view the watch in person rather than have it shipped (clearly as they don’t seem to be a business). We’ve negotiated a price that’s favourable but they would prefer to take direct bank transfer or cash (clearly that’s not happening as I wouldn’t be able to carry it anyway).

I’m based in the UK and the watch is in Italy which is where I’m planning to meet the person and have arranged to meet at an AD that they use to confirm authenticity etc. In the meantime they have provided me with the serial number which I’ve passed onto my AD who’s checking the lost and stolen register etc and to confirm that the dial is as it’s meant to be.

I’m starting get a little nervous as I’m one who always takes people in good faith that hopes will get the same back but there are a few naughty people out there. There’s a number scenarios that’s running through my head at the moment but I could be worrying for no reason.

Payment is one that’s causing me a little issue as I clearly don’t want to instruct my bank to make a payment until I’m happy with the watch and equally want it to be instant enough so I’m able to take the watch and both be back on our ways again.

It’s the first time I’ll be purchasing a watch from a private individual and in another country too so just want to ensure I cover my back sufficiently.



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[ancientmariner]

A private purchase from a foreign country is definitely at the high end of the risk scale taking into account all buying options.

Personally I would wait until I saw what I wanted in the UK.
Perhaps you are being drawn by a lower price or is there no availability in the UK?

[365DAS]

Originally Posted by ancientmariner

A private purchase from a foreign country is definitely at the high end of the risk scale taking into account all buying options.



Personally I would wait until I saw what I wanted in the UK.

Perhaps you are being drawn by a lower price or is there no availability in the UK?

It’s more the availability in the UK. Yes, there are some around of what I’m after but I’ve been drawn to this due to being a last production year watch and the fact it’s still got all the stickers so effectively new.

I’m one who’d consider paying slightly more for transacting in a safer manner but just can’t seem to find the right product and I feel I won’t especially in the condition I would want it to be in.


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[Yess]

The problem with this transaction, as I see it, is that you are going to the seller's AD. They may have a nice little side business going together.
I'd try and change up this variable - if that's possible.
As to the money... take cash. Tell them you are going to transfer, so there isn't an imperative to purchase, less chance of robbery etc - but when you get there, if you like it and it seems legit, bust out the cash. Done.

[365DAS]

Originally Posted by Yess

The problem with this transaction, as I see it, is that you are going to the sellers' AD. They may have a nice little side business going together.
I'd try and change up this variable - if that's possible.
As to the money... take cash. Tell them you are going to transfer, so there isn't an imperative to purchase, less chance of robbery etc - but when you get there, if you like it and it seems legit, bust out the cash. Done.

The cash option I wouldn’t mind but we’re talking over €10k which I don’t think I’ll be able to carry with me...unless I’m mistaken.


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[thesharkfactor]

My advice: If you are confident enough to go buy it with your own eyes and hands, then go for it.
Otherwise, go buy from a brick and mortar business and pay the premium for your peace of mind.

This meeting at an AD is nonsense. They are not going to get involved with your deal and they will probably not 'authenticate' it over the counter either. The seller could have swapped out the movement with a fake/clone. They would want to open it to check movement numbers and to do that they'll send it away or keep it a while (their resident watchmaker is not waiting on you, if they have one that is).

[365DAS]

Originally Posted by thesharkfactor

My advice: If you are confident enough to go buy it with your own eyes and hands, then go for it.
Otherwise, go buy from a brick and mortar business and pay the premium for your peace of mind.

This meeting at an AD is nonsense. They are not going to get involved with your deal and they will probably not 'authenticate' it over the counter either. The seller could have swapped out the movement with a fake/clone. They would want to open it to check movement numbers and to do that they'll send it away or keep it a while (their resident watchmaker is not waiting on you, if they have one that is).

I do feel confident enough, just the pitfalls of a bad transaction starting to kick in. I’m travelling with a couple of pals also (my heavies ) but that doesn’t determine I’ll be getting what want.

Yes, a retail presence if my preferred route to buy but can’t seem to find what I’m after...only what seems like watch dealers but abroad again.


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[thesharkfactor]

Well I'd be very careful. There are unscrupulous folks buy a genuine watch and a really good fake of the same watch, they swap the movements, add a genuine box and accessories and a fake warranty card - now they have 2 watches to sell.

No one questions the real one, and if anyone questions the fake they open it and it's got a real movement, so it must be good eh.. careful.

[FinWatch]

You asked for advice:
Don’t do it.
I’ve had a terrible experience buying the Rolex Kermit from Italy. It turned out to be a franken watch, but luckily I finally got my money back (mortar store). The process included sending the watch to Switzerland, then back to me then back to Italy... numerous emails&telephonecalls, plenty of time vasted...
Always buy the seller first. If you don’t know the seller, don’t do it.
You can always send a message to DavidSW or similar trusted sellers and ask them to find you the watch you are looking for.
After my terrible Kermit-experience I am always ready to pay more for peace of mind and dealing only with the sellers that I know.
All the best!!!!


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[Yess]

Originally Posted by 365DAS

The cash option I wouldn’t mind but we’re talking over €10k which I don’t think I’ll be able to carry with me...unless I’m mistaken.

€10000 is 20 notes (€. That's a small amount of cash to carry/conceal (not value wise), but you get my point.

[1William]

I would not do it. Too complicated and too many chances for difficulties. Find a trusted seller who is in the country you are located in and get your best deal. In the end you will be better off. When in doubt, don't.

[Old Geezer]

If it were me, I'd pass. Simply too many variables that could be problematic. I'd go the trusted seller route. They can cast a much broader net than you can to find the perfect example of the watch you are looking for. Good luck however you decide to go.

[Zakalwe]

I wouldn’t do it. Too much hassle, too many unknowns and there’s presumably a chance that with patience the watch and deal you want will turn up closer to home.

If you do decide to go through with it though, you should contact the AD independently. I’d want to know who was doing the authenticating. I’m absolutely certain I would be better at identifying a fake Rolex than 99% of AD staff - and I am definitely far from being an expert - plus there are anecdotes on here of even trained watchmakers being duped. The bar would have to be set extremely high for me to accept AD authentication of a used watch.

[Blansky]

I've bought from private individuals on Chrono 24 twice before and twice from stores listed on Chrono.

Both were fine. And everything went smoothly. Everyone had a high rating on Chrono or ebay etc.

I have a rule though that every unknown transaction I need to feel that financially if it breaks apart, I won't be devastated.

If you can't afford to lose the money, go to an AD/bricks and mortar and stick with them.

[Cloudchaser]

Originally Posted by Yess

€10000 is 20 notes (€. That's a small amount of cash to carry/conceal (not value wise), but you get my point.

I inferred that he's concerned about the laws involving carrying that much cash across borders, not about how concealable that cash might be...?

[Danny83]

Offer to pay for his flight to deliver it to you.

[Nikrnic]

I bought a Submariner from a private seller on C/24 without any issues. I stayed and paid through the site so the funds were in escrow until i recieved and approved the purchase. That would be my suggestion to you, it keeps everything above board and protects the buyer, and you don't pay any fees.

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[joli160]

No way I would ever do that.
You will be a very easy target unless you can fight like Tyson Fury

Be wise and wait for an offer from a dealer. There are many stellar online sellers available in the EU. Wander outside Chrono24 and check out i.e. the German or Dutch forum for real reviews from true WIS.

[dauster]

simply don't do it not worth the potential risk and headache

[DoxaDavid]

I have purchased 3 watches from Chrono 24. Two from trusted verified dealers and one a private party. Everything in life has risks so it comes down to how risk averse you are? All of my transactions went fine. I used the escrow service on 2 of them and paid via CC for the other.

You can drive yourself nuts trying to come up with every possible way a person could scam you if they wanted. The reality is if the seller is legit and is willing to work with you such as meeting at an AD as well as provides VERIFIABLE ID and references, your risk is low.

As to payment, if you are going with 2 other friends, each of you can carry enough cash to stay under the threshold of declaring the cash. Does your bank have a local branch where after authentication and approving the purchase you can go? There are places like American Express offices or the like you can deposit funds in and go pull out the cash as well.

Plus, you get to go to Italy and have fun while getting your watch so a double win!

Good luck.

[locutus49]

I am a risk-taker by nature but there are some red flags here. I would pass. Find a good grey dealer who can source it for you. Paul Thorpe could recommend someone to you.

[AK797]

Not for me, I would only buy abroad from a well reviewed bricks and mortar store that I had some recourse against should things go wrong later.

[envuks]

Originally Posted by Cloudchaser

I inferred that he's concerned about the laws involving carrying that much cash across borders, not about how concealable that cash might be...?

These seem intertwined to me. I don’t think it’s illegal to carry cash so long as you keep a bank receipt on you so you can quickly/ easily prove its origin

[rolehex]

I would ONLY buy from a seller that offers secure checkout via the escrow service. Then I believe you have 7 days after you receive the watch to check it out and then they release the funds.

If you are not sure if the seller offers escrow...call c24 and ask them. They will tell you.

[Fredrik]

Originally Posted by 365DAS

The cash option I wouldn’t mind but we’re talking over €10k which I don’t think I’ll be able to carry with me...unless I’m mistaken.

Within the EU(you are still in...) you may carry more than 10k€ across borders, but you need to check with customs in both countries if you need to declare it before your trip. If you are entering or exiting the EU, you always have to declare it.

[mnmallen]

I've bought and sold on Chrono 24 in the past without issue but as ever caveat emptor....the cash route seems to be least risky.

[77T]

Originally Posted by envuks

These seem intertwined to me. I don’t think it’s illegal to carry cash so long as you keep a bank receipt on you so you can quickly/ easily prove its origin

As long as one is traveling within the EU, there isn’t a regulation on cash but your idea of carrying a bank slip showing the withdrawal is a good idea. Authorities do have other regulations they can leverage if they suspect criminal activity.

The 10,000€ declaration trigger is for those who enter/exit the EU.

BTW, in June 2021 a new regulation extends the definition of cash to include commodities that are highly-liquid stores of value such as gold and other precious metals. The interesting part is each member country could consider Rolex, Patek, etc as a store of value. In other words a commodity.

In addition, the new Regulation on cash controls will enable competent authorities to act on amounts less than 10,000€ if you seem shady.


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[m j b]

I wonder what the OP decided to do?

I think the C24 escrow idea is good, but really, if you've got doubts, any doubts, then skip it. Lots of watches out there to choose from.