The Rolex Forums   The Rolex Watch

ROLEXROLEXROLEXROLEXROLEXROLEXROLEXROLEXROLEXROLEXROLEXROLEX

Old 21 June 2017, 04:29 PM   #181
Pam673
"TRF" Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2017
Location: La La land
Watch: A few
Posts: 99
Quote:
Originally Posted by htc8p View Post
in hk, pam has lost rolex remains on top however. imo rolex is the king of watch brands and managed to stay there.

but overall the watch industry is in a slump
In HK too many people have herd mentalities and just follow what other people are doing and that includes buying a particular brand of watch.

Most don't know or care about the technicality or the history of a watch and just buy it because other people think it's a good idea. If you go into a local HK watch forum most of the postings are questions of which model they should buy or bashing other brands that they don't wear.

If you go into a Maccas there and start placing your burger order (or in any fast food stores) you will notice a number of kids serving you have a Rolex or a Panerai (when it was popular) on their wrist.

If you use THAT market to vindicate your notion that Rolex is the King of all watch brands then
Pam673 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 22 June 2017, 01:49 AM   #182
ezinhk
"TRF" Member
 
Join Date: May 2012
Location: hk
Posts: 691
Quote:
Originally Posted by htc8p View Post
in hk, pam has lost rolex remains on top however. imo rolex is the king of watch brands and managed to stay there.

but overall the watch industry is in a slump
From a marketing perspective and the quantity it produces yearly...YES!

From a horology perspective, is not even in the circle.
ezinhk is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 22 June 2017, 06:18 AM   #183
socialpro
"TRF" Member
 
socialpro's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2015
Real Name: Alex
Watch: Rolex || Panerai
Posts: 1,348
Love my Panerais more and more each day. After being immersed in the 'watch' world as a collector a bit more over past few years, and trying out various Rolex -- I feel that Panerai offers a very unique product that will not go away anytime soon.
socialpro is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 22 June 2017, 02:32 PM   #184
chazha
"TRF" Member
 
chazha's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Real Name: ChairmanMao
Location: NY, US
Watch: mickey watch
Posts: 837
Patek is the least faked brand out there and yet it their prices has gone to the moon within the past decade.

Sent from my ONEPLUS A3003 using Tapatalk
__________________
I am always single, even when I am married.
chazha is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 25 June 2017, 05:17 AM   #185
dnpina
Banned
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: texas
Watch: 126610 LV
Posts: 1,529
Long live Panerai. I love mine.
dnpina is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 25 June 2017, 01:29 PM   #186
oldsalt
"TRF" Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2014
Real Name: Peter
Location: Australia.
Watch: ?????
Posts: 1,015
Still lovin' my Panerai...so much so that I've just bought another one...!!!

cheers
__________________
EXP II - DSSD (blue) - PAM 643 - PAM 724 - PAM 424 - PAM 1499 - GRUPPO GAMA - PAM 1305 - Breguet XXI - 116500LN & BLNR....gone
oldsalt is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 4 July 2017, 11:06 AM   #187
Paul_I
"TRF" Member
 
Paul_I's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2015
Location: USA
Posts: 1,448
Cheers to a great thread. +1 to everyone that says this great brand is here to stay. I say that with no need to knock any other brand, this is simply a great looking, well-made watch.

Edit: Mine is a Pam 320. Tried to upload a pic from my iPhone and it exceeded size limits. Will get back to you guys from my computer.
__________________


Last edited by Paul_I; 4 July 2017 at 11:07 AM.. Reason: Tech Chellenged Forum Member
Paul_I is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 5 July 2017, 03:29 AM   #188
sergio671980
"TRF" Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Real Name: Sergio
Location: florida
Watch: 114060
Posts: 301
Well got what I believe to be a great deal on a 466 palm beach boutique special edition and could not be happier with it. Got a complete set with all paperwork large collectors box both bands and all outer boxes for 3k (hopping it was a great deal lol..) regardless of the price I love the piece and hope to keep it for a long time to come..
I have always loved their watches and I'm happy to finally own one again!

Another for a great brand that's here to stay!!
Attached Images
File Type: jpg RenderedContent-7C1E9B8F-FF12-419E-B737-58A70DFC61C9.JPG (132.2 KB, 790 views)
__________________
sergio671980 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 5 July 2017, 11:36 AM   #189
spryken
"TRF" Member
 
spryken's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Asia , Malaysia
Posts: 185
Quote:
Originally Posted by sergio671980 View Post
Well got what I believe to be a great deal on a 466 palm beach boutique special edition and could not be happier with it. Got a complete set with all paperwork large collectors box both bands and all outer boxes for 3k (hopping it was a great deal lol..) regardless of the price I love the piece and hope to keep it for a long time to come..
I have always loved their watches and I'm happy to finally own one again!

Another for a great brand that's here to stay!!


Very good catch , congratulations
spryken is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 6 July 2017, 09:33 AM   #190
flintsghost
"TRF" Member
 
flintsghost's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2017
Real Name: Bill
Location: Colorado USA
Watch: Rolex 16600
Posts: 214
I think they are still great but they are starting to move toward the smaller, 42mm, sizes which are more popular. Base models with no dates and seconds are going begging but nicer models still move well.
flintsghost is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 6 July 2017, 10:59 AM   #191
Doctock
"TRF" Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2015
Location: USA
Watch: Yes
Posts: 224
Interesting conversation.
With several Panerai in the collection: 88, 161, 243, 49 (wife's), and a 273 I obviously like the "older" models. Had a 268 briefly but it was not my style for a rotation in the daily-wear group so I sold it to a friend very shortly after purchase.

I'm not a fan of a lot of the newer releases as I think the 47mm size is too big - almost to the point of looking like you are "compensating" for a different issue unless you're the physically the size of the average professional athlete.
Also, and I know this is a big point of contention for some, I think that the loss of the cyclops makes the watch look like a fake Panerai.

That said, I really like the ceramic sub, titanium sub, and the new 42mm submariner looks very interesting (and a big contender in rose gold vs the Yachtmaster in gold with black bezel).

Regarding the price decline in the second hand market. This is a two edged sword for me. I purchase pre-owned watches as I hate the usual mark-up for new - and have in fact, found many pre-owned watches in better condition than from a dealer's showcase.
The current "soft market" only affects flipping, not buy and wear. I'd like to move my 273 (picked up an IWC 7 day in rose gold as my "formal" watch) but I'm not willing to lose almost $10K from purchase (and the watch is not moving/ dealers have zero interest). I'm hoping the market does recover as there are (of course) other watches I'd like to add/ try.
Doctock is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 8 July 2017, 01:48 AM   #192
KVG
"TRF" Member
 
KVG's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: California
Watch: Daytona 6263
Posts: 15
I'm a little worried that Pam is starting to go the way of IWC, where they got very popular very quickly and then indexed on weird new models that were antithetical to their core design language.

The Duo looks like an abomination to me.

AP...I mean it's one of the finest watch houses in history. Vacheron, Patek and AP are unassailable as the greatest "mass" production watch makers.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
KVG is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 8 July 2017, 03:55 AM   #193
KVG
"TRF" Member
 
KVG's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: California
Watch: Daytona 6263
Posts: 15
I'm a little worried that Panerai is starting water down their design language-- the Luminor Duo looks like an abomination to me.
KVG is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 8 July 2017, 08:24 AM   #194
Stack
"TRF" Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Orange County, CA
Watch: PAM312|AP 15400ST
Posts: 302
Quote:
Originally Posted by KVG View Post
I'm a little worried that Panerai is starting water down their design language-- the Luminor Duo looks like an abomination to me.
If you are referring to the Luminor "DUE" then you have to see it from Panerai's perspective. They are trying to grasp another part of the watch buying market. There are a lot of fans of the look of Panerai but don't like how bulky it is and how it doesn't fit under the cuff or work well with suits.

They of course have an option of the more dressy Radiomir models, but everyone that wants to get their first Panerai usually want the iconic crown guard. So the Luminor Due is the perfect watch for THAT person.

Do the purists and long time fans of Panerai love it? Probably not, but they know they have buyers in us and the collectors so they have to also cater to the new customers out there and the market changes and what they are looking for. If they only made watches that would appease the small groups of loyal fans, they would not be able to make any money.

They have to at least try and branch out and think of something outside the norm and get a share of every market.
__________________
PAM 312
Panerai Central | Panerai Central Instagram
Stack is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 8 July 2017, 08:40 AM   #195
KVG
"TRF" Member
 
KVG's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: California
Watch: Daytona 6263
Posts: 15
Whoops, definitely due not duo. I think we both desperately don't want to watch Panerai go back into the woodwork. I know the luxury watch market is not incredibly profitable. But, in the same way that if Ferrari started making econoboxes, it would hurt perception of the La Ferrari. Similar to why the Acura NSX rarely is spoken of with the same cache as any other supercar-- Acura has sold a few too many TLXs.

I'm not saying the Due is a honda civic, but I hope Panerai is careful in not confusing its brand by releasing pseudo-dress luminors.
KVG is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 9 July 2017, 03:30 PM   #196
Uppersouth
"TRF" Member
 
Uppersouth's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2017
Real Name: Lee
Location: Kentucky
Watch: SWISS
Posts: 1,521
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stack View Post
If you are referring to the Luminor "DUE" then you have to see it from Panerai's perspective. They are trying to grasp another part of the watch buying market. There are a lot of fans of the look of Panerai but don't like how bulky it is and how it doesn't fit under the cuff or work well with suits.

They of course have an option of the more dressy Radiomir models, but everyone that wants to get their first Panerai usually want the iconic crown guard. So the Luminor Due is the perfect watch for THAT person.

Do the purists and long time fans of Panerai love it? Probably not, but they know they have buyers in us and the collectors so they have to also cater to the new customers out there and the market changes and what they are looking for. If they only made watches that would appease the small groups of loyal fans, they would not be able to make any money.

They have to at least try and branch out and think of something outside the norm and get a share of every market.
I agree.
Uppersouth is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 13 July 2017, 11:03 AM   #197
dapurdie
"TRF" Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2016
Location: Florida
Watch: GMT Master II Coke
Posts: 2
I've picked up three in the past few months, a 24, 564, and Radiomir 658. They do seem to be more readily had at deeper discounts in the secondary market than a year ago but I wouldn't say they are dead by any means. Not as trendy now as they were say five years ago but I think they will always have a strong following given their unique aesthetic. I think their recent drop is to be expected given the run they've had for the past 10-15 years. Very few brands manage to stay relevant and "trendy" for that long.
dapurdie is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 17 July 2017, 12:24 PM   #198
Preeble
"TRF" Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: PA
Posts: 110
+2

The same was said when Porsche introduced the Cayenne. Look how that turned out...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Stack View Post
If you are referring to the Luminor "DUE" then you have to see it from Panerai's perspective. They are trying to grasp another part of the watch buying market. There are a lot of fans of the look of Panerai but don't like how bulky it is and how it doesn't fit under the cuff or work well with suits.

They of course have an option of the more dressy Radiomir models, but everyone that wants to get their first Panerai usually want the iconic crown guard. So the Luminor Due is the perfect watch for THAT person.

Do the purists and long time fans of Panerai love it? Probably not, but they know they have buyers in us and the collectors so they have to also cater to the new customers out there and the market changes and what they are looking for. If they only made watches that would appease the small groups of loyal fans, they would not be able to make any money.

They have to at least try and branch out and think of something outside the norm and get a share of every market.
Preeble is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 17 July 2017, 02:41 PM   #199
mickyd329
"TRF" Member
 
mickyd329's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2015
Real Name: Mike
Location: Socal
Watch: AP/PP/Rolex
Posts: 1,741
Quote:
Originally Posted by KVG View Post
I'm a little worried that Pam is starting to go the way of IWC, where they got very popular very quickly and then indexed on weird new models that were antithetical to their core design language.

The Duo looks like an abomination to me.

AP...I mean it's one of the finest watch houses in history. Vacheron, Patek and AP are unassailable as the greatest "mass" production watch makers.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Everyone varies in their taste of watches. I for one like my 674 DUE or what you refer to as an abomination. It fits what I was looking for. I have other big pieces and wanted a Panerai that was slimmer in profile that I could wear with the dress shirt.

There is nothing wrong with a brand creating lines to cater to a wider audience. After all, it is a business. When Porsche went from the last air cooled motor in the 993 to the water cooled motors of today, purist screamed bloody murder and complained how it was no longer a real Porsche. Porsche is doing just fine today?


AP, PP and VC mass produced? Hmmm...
__________________
PP 5205G-013/ PP 5212A / AP 15416CE / AP 26574st QP/ AP 50th 16202st /AP 15500st Black / AP 26331.or/ AP 26405CE / AP 77350CE / AP 15551st / AP 67540sk /Daytona C White/Rolex SS BLRO / Rolex Sub Green / Rolex Explorer II/ Rolex DJ Blue
mickyd329 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 17 July 2017, 03:22 PM   #200
Uppersouth
"TRF" Member
 
Uppersouth's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2017
Real Name: Lee
Location: Kentucky
Watch: SWISS
Posts: 1,521
Quote:
Originally Posted by mickyd329 View Post
Everyone varies in their taste of watches. I for one like my 674 DUE or what you refer to as an abomination. It fits what I was looking for. I have other big pieces and wanted a Panerai that was slimmer in profile that I could wear with the dress shirt.

There is nothing wrong with a brand creating lines to cater to a wider audience. After all, it is a business. When Porsche went from the last air cooled motor in the 993 to the water cooled motors of today, purist screamed bloody murder and complained how it was no longer a real Porsche. Porsche is doing just fine today?


AP, PP and VC mass produced? Hmmm...
I tried on the Due 42mm this week and was really impressed. A really nice, classy dress watch. I like seeing Panerai stepping out a bit with design.
Uppersouth is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 18 July 2017, 10:52 AM   #201
WJGESQ
Banned
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Florida
Posts: 3,753
Quote:
Originally Posted by NothingToSeeHere View Post
Yes. AP will suffer the same fate. Obscurity, no? Thanks to Social media, unknown brands have a fad period and then they stabilize. Panerai is past the fad, in a dip, but it will stabilize. AP is the current fad watch. Unfortunately 87.323279% of fad followers will not admit they follow trends...most likely because they don't realize they do. If you have what's popular when it's popular, and there is a consistent pattern.....
Excellent analysis.
WJGESQ is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 19 July 2017, 04:07 PM   #202
Pam673
"TRF" Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2017
Location: La La land
Watch: A few
Posts: 99
We should just rephrased the title question into - Is Panerai fading into oblivion for fliippers - then it is much more obvious of what is happening.

In the past these 'hot' (127,217,249...etc) mostly historical models which pay homage to vintage PAMs like 6152/1, Cali all had limited supply and were highly sought after by flippers which means that supply was even tighter.

This created a cult of followers and people want to buy it primarily was it was (or perceived as) hard to get. The normal entry models like the 000, 005 were the most popular and were hard to come by with long waiting queues. They were like the PP 5711 now (in terms of rarity) at those days. It was like a badge of honour to wear one on one's hand because they were perceived to be special because of the perception that they were hard to come by (even though that was only applicable to SE/LE at the time).

OP had since changed their business model strategy and want everyone to be able to enjoy SE/LE without paying flipper price. More revenue is of course the main objective of OP so now Flippers can no longer earn pocket money by flipping SE/LE models because there had been so many re-issues of similar 'hot' models.

This created an illusion that the brand is not 'popular' any more because OP's watch is no longer seen as hard to get and people don't crave for something that's not hard to get. Buyers then had looked at the 2nd hand market for corroboration and saw prices plummeted like a stock market crash. This drastic drop in 2nd hand prices further supported their view that Panerai is no longer popular.

Most Flippers then left the brand (even though before they claimed to be diehard lovers of Panerai) and chase after PP and AP.
Pam673 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 14 August 2017, 04:32 PM   #203
improviz
"TRF" Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Tejas
Watch: your step
Posts: 2,806
Quote:
Originally Posted by WJGESQ View Post
Excellent analysis.
No, it isn't. But your fanboyism is certainly showing again.
__________________
116520 white; 16613 black; 116710; 16570 polar; 16600. AP 15400; 15703. Blancpain Fifty Fathoms. Glashutte Sport Evo GMT. Omega Planet Ocean 2907.50.91; Planet Ocean Liquidmetal LE 222.30.42.20.01.001; Seamaster 2255.80.00. Breitling Crosswind, white. Panerai PAM 005. VC Overseas Chrono, black.
improviz is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 14 August 2017, 04:48 PM   #204
charley
"TRF" Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2017
Location: perth wa
Posts: 2
as for Panerai or Rolex how can you tell the difference from a short distance .If it's a fake or not.I cant
charley is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 15 August 2017, 01:36 AM   #205
Quicksilver
"TRF" Member
 
Quicksilver's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Real Name: David
Location: London+Guangzhou
Watch: ing watches
Posts: 2,603
Love for the brand is not dying as far as I am concerned. I am a new convert to Panerai and excited to have discovered a brand which, as a Rolex fan boy, I always thought was just part of the big watch cult.

Generally speaking the Panerai craze has subdued and that's a good thing. It's better for a brand's credibility if they are bought by genuine aficionados rather than fashion hunters. Of course Panerai might think it's not as good for their profits!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
__________________
Rolex Sea Dweller 116600, GMT Master II 16710 (Pepsi) and 116710 BLNR, Daytona 116500LN, Submariner 14060M.
Quicksilver is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 17 August 2017, 05:23 AM   #206
jhross98
"TRF" Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2017
Location: boston
Posts: 117
separate topic. . is it just me or are there WAY more panerai fakes / imitations out there than almost any other model except rolex ? i have searched for a few models and just been stunned by how many fakes there are
jhross98 is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Takuya Watches

Bobs Watches

Asset Appeal

My Watch LLC

OCWatches

DavidSW Watches

Coronet


*Banners Of The Month*
This space is provided to horological resources.





Copyright ©2004-2024, The Rolex Forums. All Rights Reserved.

ROLEXROLEXROLEXROLEXROLEXROLEXROLEXROLEXROLEXROLEXROLEXROLEX

Rolex is a registered trademark of ROLEX USA. The Rolex Forums is not affiliated with ROLEX USA in any way.