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Old 18 October 2020, 10:16 PM   #1
330ci
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Rolex 4925 oyster

So I was out making my normal rounds and one of the local jewelers has a DJ 41 I’ve been considering (keep checking it out, never fall in love as much as I’d like) and I ended up spotting this in the case while I was browsing. They said it was late 40s which seemed early but quite plausible after doing some research. But there isn’t much info out there on these watches.

I’m sure the bracelet is later but it is probably the nicest stretch rivet I’ve ever seen, the crown isn’t original or it’s text was polished off. The case seems really nice though. it seems like an honest original piece.
The dial has a few discolored patches as well, would this affect its value too much or fairly acceptable given its age?

One thing I noticed though was it feels like the crown slips as you wind it then re engages, is this some sort of slipper system when fully wound or is it a mechanical problem with the movement? Are parts for these still available? Is this something that would require a specialist watchmaker or could I take it to one of the cheaper local guys?
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Old 19 October 2020, 02:26 AM   #2
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Looks like it has a 700 movement which was the same as some Gruen movements as well? Still nothing on the slippage when winding though
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Old 19 October 2020, 02:58 AM   #3
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Probably 1950s, not 1940s, after the serial number reset. Sounds like it may have a mainspring issue, slipping or broken. Parts are available from private hoards, used parts suppliers, eBay, or movements from scrapped watches.

The bracelet might be the best part, and a significant fraction of the value.
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Old 19 October 2020, 03:43 AM   #4
330ci
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Probably 1950s, not 1940s, after the serial number reset. Sounds like it may have a mainspring issue, slipping or broken. Parts are available from private hoards, used parts suppliers, eBay, or movements from scrapped watches.

The bracelet might be the best part, and a significant fraction of the value.
I originally thought the same thing about the SN, but it’s between 45-48. Some say the reference was 45 only which the 300k SN corresponds to. The reference is said to be the first Air king variant as well. Although not all the dials were marked. This being one, and Vlad here just posted one on another thread I just saw so hopefully he’ll chime in here as well.


https://www.rolexforums.com/showthread.php?t=769144

It’s definitely up there in price. And normally I wouldn’t look at a midsize with dial damage, but for being radium lunes, it’s survived remarkably well, and I think it’d be a great daily wearer, and I could put the bracelet away for when I find something that matches the date or just sell it off
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Old 19 October 2020, 12:54 PM   #5
R.W.T.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 330ci View Post
Looks like it has a 700 movement which was the same as some Gruen movements as well? Still nothing on the slippage when winding though
That's kind of a GROSS oversimplification.

Same as the Gruen...in ROUGH design only and there are SO MANY variants that it's more like a picture of one is the same as a picture of the other. By the time that watch was made it is so far beyond the Gruen that it's not even worth talking about. The movements were also ALL hand fit...and parts are not "parts" so to speak even between same era Rolex movements. A part MIGHT swap out...or it might not.

You cannot tell what is going on without opening the watch. Could simply be the clutch in the crown (very likely) because the spring is tired. Try holding outward pressure on the crown while winding. The crown wheel screws could be loose allowing the crown wheel to disengage from the winding pinion. The bridge screws could be loose, the yoke spring could be broken or weak ...causing the clutch not to engage the winding pinion...any number of things. Or as was mentioned a broken mainspring but it would be HIGHLY unlikely that someone would put a watch up for sale in an AD with a broken mainspring.

Watch is late 1940's

That band would never have come on that watch. The watch would've had straight ends. Flushfit ends were introduced at Basel in 1954 and only in rare cases did they see any watches before that in 1953.


The crown looks fine but we don't really see the side. It would only Say ROLEX OYSTER in very fine printing.

The dial appears original.

It's a nice sized watch and pretty uncommon for the era.

The dial is excellent for the era. The photos aren't great but I don't see any damage. What damage. These are radium dials...you're NEVER going to find the kind of pristine things you find in mid year sports watches...you're looking at a COMPLETELY different animal than what you're used to.

Did you actually check the serial number. The person's handwriting is hardly legible. is that 553104 or 353104?

If it's 353104 I would say 1946 as I have a 323xxx watch with personal engraving from 46.
If it's 553104 I would say 1949 because I have an OP with the same dial from 1949 with papers.

What's the price? For me that is a very nice example of that watch on a very nice 19mm bonus band.
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Old 19 October 2020, 10:03 PM   #6
330ci
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Originally Posted by R.W.T. View Post
That's kind of a GROSS oversimplification.

Same as the Gruen...in ROUGH design only and there are SO MANY variants that it's more like a picture of one is the same as a picture of the other. By the time that watch was made it is so far beyond the Gruen that it's not even worth talking about. The movements were also ALL hand fit...and parts are not "parts" so to speak even between same era Rolex movements. A part MIGHT swap out...or it might not.

You cannot tell what is going on without opening the watch. Could simply be the clutch in the crown (very likely) because the spring is tired. Try holding outward pressure on the crown while winding. The crown wheel screws could be loose allowing the crown wheel to disengage from the winding pinion. The bridge screws could be loose, the yoke spring could be broken or weak ...causing the clutch not to engage the winding pinion...any number of things. Or as was mentioned a broken mainspring but it would be HIGHLY unlikely that someone would put a watch up for sale in an AD with a broken mainspring.

Watch is late 1940's

That band would never have come on that watch. The watch would've had straight ends. Flushfit ends were introduced at Basel in 1954 and only in rare cases did they see any watches before that in 1953.


The crown looks fine but we don't really see the side. It would only Say ROLEX OYSTER in very fine printing.

The dial appears original.

It's a nice sized watch and pretty uncommon for the era.

The dial is excellent for the era. The photos aren't great but I don't see any damage. What damage. These are radium dials...you're NEVER going to find the kind of pristine things you find in mid year sports watches...you're looking at a COMPLETELY different animal than what you're used to.

Did you actually check the serial number. The person's handwriting is hardly legible. is that 553104 or 353104?

If it's 353104 I would say 1946 as I have a 323xxx watch with personal engraving from 46.
If it's 553104 I would say 1949 because I have an OP with the same dial from 1949 with papers.

What's the price? For me that is a very nice example of that watch on a very nice 19mm bonus band.
They’re asking $2799, which generally can be talked down 15%-20% so likely around $2,400 after taxes. Plus whatever it costs to get the movement sorted, unless I can get them to factor that into the price(which I think they should lol)

The dial has spots of yellowing around the 3 o’clock, 6 o’clock and raised logos. But like you said these radium dials are a different animal than I’m used to, Most of the ones I see are refinished or heavily degraded. I personally find the dial attractive but didn’t know how people judge these older dials, I don’t mind paying a fair price, but I personally feel they are on the higher side of retail. I know I’d feel much more comfortable around $2k, but I just don’t see them coming down that much. I’m not into sports watches, just midsize for me, but I haven’t owned any Rolexes prior to 1960 as I’ve always been afraid of damaging movements. The 12xx and 15xx series movements are such tanks and so plentiful, I never worried about parts lol
I will have to check on the SN I was under the impression it was 353.

Thank you so much for the education though, you’ve given me a great deal to consider and some more stuff to look up!
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Old 19 October 2020, 11:41 PM   #7
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serial would be 353,104, as my 4925 is 352,915. it's a 1946 watch, as the serial is on the case back and because of the old style crown.

Dial looks very nice. I would like to see a better quality picture to see details of the font. My only concern about the dial is that the radium (on the dial and the hands) seems too white.

As far as the band, is there a date stamp on the buckle? Can you provide a few pictures of the buckle and of the end links.

Here are few more pictures of mine.

Vlad
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Old 19 October 2020, 11:59 PM   #8
330ci
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vlad View Post
serial would be 353,104, as my 4925 is 352,915. it's a 1946 watch, as the serial is on the case back and because of the old style crown.

Dial looks very nice. I would like to see a better quality picture to see details of the font. My only concern about the dial is that the radium (on the dial and the hands) seems too white.

As far as the band, is there a date stamp on the buckle? Can you provide a few pictures of the buckle and of the end links.

Here are few more pictures of mine.

Vlad

I’ll have to get some more pics, I need to figure out how to properly resize them to get the most resolution/size. I believe the bracelet was from 61, it had 57 end links on it. I didn’t take any pics of the markings on it though. It was a C+I made one though, which was a bit of a bummer. But the condition was superb.


The blue seconds hand really sets it off though, it reflected light so beautifully.
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Old 20 October 2020, 03:54 AM   #9
R.W.T.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vlad View Post
serial would be 353,104, as my 4925 is 352,915. it's a 1946 watch, as the serial is on the case back and because of the old style crown.

Dial looks very nice. I would like to see a better quality picture to see details of the font. My only concern about the dial is that the radium (on the dial and the hands) seems too white.

As far as the band, is there a date stamp on the buckle? Can you provide a few pictures of the buckle and of the end links.

Here are few more pictures of mine.

Vlad
Hey Vlad! If I can find a stainless 7 3/4 crown you wanna swap? I've got a guy who really need that gold crown!

I might have a stainless.

T
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Old 20 October 2020, 04:04 AM   #10
R.W.T.
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Originally Posted by 330ci View Post
I’ll have to get some more pics, I need to figure out how to properly resize them to get the most resolution/size. I believe the bracelet was from 61, it had 57 end links on it. I didn’t take any pics of the markings on it though. It was a C+I made one though, which was a bit of a bummer. But the condition was superb.


The blue seconds hand really sets it off though, it reflected light so beautifully.

The end links were probably changed because C and I bands don't have numbers on the end links. If it's got real Swiss links installed that's most of the battle with those. The bands were fine...it's just the endlinks don't fit ANYTHING.

I don't think if you can get them down some that it's a bad deal really.

It's a really good example of a very rare reference. These seem small to you guys..but they're REALLY LARGE for the era. 34mm in an oyster was unheard of really...mostly they were 28-30.

The movement is probably not a big deal but do check to see if it's not just the crown clutching inadvertently.

I can service that movement for you. I've done 3 this year.

See if you can get a close up of the crown and tube.

The tube is very hard to find. If it is in good shape then I wouldn't worry about much else. Movement photos would be nice to see if it is as nice as the rest of the watch.

PM me if you like.
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Old 20 October 2020, 05:06 AM   #11
Vlad
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Originally Posted by R.W.T. View Post
Hey Vlad! If I can find a stainless 7 3/4 crown you wanna swap? I've got a guy who really need that gold crown!

I might have a stainless.

T
Of course. do you still have my contact info? If not, just PM me.

Vlad
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