The Rolex Forums   The Rolex Watch

ROLEXROLEXROLEXROLEXROLEXROLEXROLEXROLEXROLEXROLEXROLEXROLEX


Go Back   Rolex Forums - Rolex Watch Forum > Other (non-Rolex) Watch Topics > Patek Philippe Discussion Forum

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 11 June 2019, 03:33 AM   #31
VanAdian
2019 Pledge Member
 
VanAdian's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2018
Location: WA, USA
Watch: BLRO
Posts: 581
Stainless steel can and will rust under the "right" conditions. Numerous forms: galvanic, pitting, crevice, etc. Type of SS (chrome content, classification, etc), quality of manufacture could play a role too.
How are you storing the watch, any exposure to high Chloride environments, low pH, or highly reducing environments (such as some forms of bacterial activity), are you wearing something else on your wrist with the watch (bracelet or such)?
__________________
126710BLRO - 114060 - Zenith El Primero Chronomaster - Omega Railmaster - Seiko SKX033

"The time you enjoy wasting is not wasted time." - B. Russell
VanAdian is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11 June 2019, 03:36 AM   #32
iLLGT2
"TRF" Member
 
iLLGT2's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Real Name: Martin
Location: NY And FLA
Watch: AP ROO Blue Scuba
Posts: 2,425
Ive talked time and time and time again about my Patek experiences and the horrible shoddy quality...

Always was bashed for it lol

Just had a convo about declining quality recently with an almost "ex" patek collector!

This has been like this for the past 5-7 years now easy and tons of my Pateks, every single one of them broke in some way

Beautiful watches however the QC seems non existent

Hope you get it sorted OP,
iLLGT2 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11 June 2019, 03:41 AM   #33
ts3
"TRF" Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2018
Location: Europe
Posts: 486
Should I take my 5711 for a swim ASAP just to make sure there will be no corrosion?

Replacing the OP's bracelet only may show as the new one will likely have an ever so slightly different color / shine from the old one and the case. No prob if it was a 20y old watch but given that the OP's watch is basically brand new I would insist on getting a new case+bracelet combo or a new watch altogether. A new watch may come w the new movement though... Up to the OP if that is a plus or minus...

PS WD40 is not abrasive just like Ballistol oil...
ts3 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11 June 2019, 03:51 AM   #34
Fat_ninja
2019 GMT CHNR Pledge Member
 
Fat_ninja's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2018
Location: USA
Posts: 6,322
Quote:
Originally Posted by VanAdian View Post
Stainless steel can and will rust under the "right" conditions. Numerous forms: galvanic, pitting, crevice, etc. Type of SS (chrome content, classification, etc), quality of manufacture could play a role too.
How are you storing the watch, any exposure to high Chloride environments, low pH, or highly reducing environments (such as some forms of bacterial activity), are you wearing something else on your wrist with the watch (bracelet or such)?
Must not have enough zinc lol
Fat_ninja is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11 June 2019, 03:56 AM   #35
enjoythemusic
"TRF" Member
 
enjoythemusic's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Real Name: Steven
Location: USA
Posts: 4,229
Quote:
Originally Posted by iLLGT2 View Post
This has been like this for the past 5-7 years now easy and tons of my Pateks, every single one of them broke in some way
Was a big time Patek collector for 20 years. About seven years ago got out due to lackluster quality and loooong service times. Only have my fave vintage rg Calatrava piece for tux events and have zero desire to revisit Patek until they sort out their many problems.

Patek desperately needs a major management shift. Those of us who remember Patek decades ago remember the great service, excellent build quality, etc. Constantly re-casing their long-in-the-tooth movements into larger and larger cases is kinda a rip off imho too. Patek needs to produce at least two new base movements asap, perhaps three.
__________________
----------------------
Enjoy Your Time,

-- Steven
enjoythemusic is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11 June 2019, 04:06 AM   #36
Peterandwatches
"TRF" Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2015
Location: WA
Watch: 5167/15400/Sub/JLC
Posts: 928
Quote:
Originally Posted by CamSLC View Post
Maybe it's spaghetti sauce, taste it??

Kidding kidding! I wouldn't clean it with anything abrasive, just take it to the AD to have it cleaned. If it's still there after then ask for it to be replaced. It's under warranty.
Lol, I was thinking it was ribs.
Peterandwatches is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11 June 2019, 04:12 AM   #37
SL BRABUS
"TRF" Member
 
SL BRABUS's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: U.S.A
Watch: Only Rolex & Patek
Posts: 2,391
The whole watch look awful IMHO......
__________________
Rolex Forum: Mainly Rolex & Benz pictures...!!!
Click the above link to join the club...^^^...

"SL BRABUS" aka BenzWorld Undercover Moderator
SL BRABUS is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11 June 2019, 04:16 AM   #38
eco8gator
"TRF" Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2013
Location: Florida
Watch: 5060/a
Posts: 937
That is the unobtanium seeping out of the metal:)
eco8gator is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11 June 2019, 05:34 AM   #39
dannyp
"TRF" Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: usa
Posts: 1,413
Quote:
Originally Posted by ts3 View Post
Should I take my 5711 for a swim ASAP just to make sure there will be no corrosion?

Replacing the OP's bracelet only may show as the new one will likely have an ever so slightly different color / shine from the old one and the case. No prob if it was a 20y old watch but given that the OP's watch is basically brand new I would insist on getting a new case+bracelet combo or a new watch altogether. A new watch may come w the new movement though... Up to the OP if that is a plus or minus...

PS WD40 is not abrasive just like Ballistol oil...
Good point! I donít know whether or not it would make that much difference after two months but good to consider. And out of curiosity, what would be the downside of the 330? Iíd think a hacking movement would be considered an upgrade.
dannyp is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11 June 2019, 05:49 AM   #40
imperio
2019 HARRODS BB Pledge Member
 
imperio's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: San Francisco, CA
Watch: this space
Posts: 1,816
Quote:
Originally Posted by eco8gator View Post
That is the unobtanium seeping out of the metal:)
__________________
imperio is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11 June 2019, 06:08 AM   #41
ts3
"TRF" Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2018
Location: Europe
Posts: 486
Quote:
Originally Posted by dannyp View Post
Good point! I don’t know whether or not it would make that much difference after two months but good to consider. And out of curiosity, what would be the downside of the 330? I’d think a hacking movement would be considered an upgrade.
I'd prefer the 330 all day and twice on Sunday but I believe to remember the OP wrote elsewhere on TRF that he prefers the new dial + old movement version for its rarity. OP pl correct if I am wrong...

The difference in color / shine is not necessarily related to how old the watch is. The exact color / shine of stainless steel depends on the polishing - in this case on how worn the polishing materials / abrasive were when the new bracelet was made compared to the existing case. If you get a new watch the case and bracelet have been polished "together" so to speak. But w the new bracelet the wear status of the polishing materials will naturally have been different. Often you will see this as a Patek Service Center rep explained to me...
ts3 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11 June 2019, 06:26 AM   #42
dannyp
"TRF" Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: usa
Posts: 1,413
Quote:
Originally Posted by ts3 View Post
I'd prefer the 330 all day and twice on Sunday but I believe to remember the OP wrote elsewhere on TRF that he prefers the new dial + old movement version for its rarity. OP pl correct if I am wrong...

The difference in color / shine is not necessarily related to how old the watch is. The exact color / shine of stainless steel depends on the polishing - in this case on how worn the polishing materials / abrasive were when the new bracelet was made compared to the existing case. If you get a new watch the case and bracelet have been polished "together" so to speak. But w the new bracelet the wear status of the polishing materials will naturally have been different. Often you will see this as a Patek Service Center rep explained to me...
I didn't realize that the final polish was done once the watch was assembled.

Were it me, I'd absolutely prefer the 330 and that might be additional motivation to request an entirely new watch (lack of hacking is the sole reason I almost never travel with my PP if crossing timezones). However, if that weren't the case, I'd probably simply go with the new bracelet instead of having it re-cased. At least then I would only have to wait for the bracelet to ship and wouldn't have the potential unknown of something else getting messed up during the re-casing.
dannyp is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11 June 2019, 06:32 AM   #43
SDDS
"TRF" Member
 
SDDS's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Real Name: Yazan
Location: Canada
Watch: 5711,15400,116660
Posts: 4,439
Sad to read this, take it right away to the dealer and let them sort it out for you, i wore my 5711 to the sea, and never had an issue with it, as long you rinse it with fresh water, let us know the outcome later, but this is trully unacceptable


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
__________________
Patek Philippe 5711 White dial
Rolex Deepsea 116660 M series
Rolex Oysterquartz 17000 N series
Audemars Piguet RO 15400 Boutique edition
SDDS is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11 June 2019, 07:06 AM   #44
JR16
2019 Pledge Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: USA
Posts: 3,507
Luckily should be covered under warranty, so would just have PP replace bracelet. I doubt they would replace entire watch.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro
JR16 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11 June 2019, 07:13 AM   #45
ts3
"TRF" Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2018
Location: Europe
Posts: 486
Quote:
Originally Posted by dannyp View Post
I didn't realize that the final polish was done once the watch was assembled.

Were it me, I'd absolutely prefer the 330 and that might be additional motivation to request an entirely new watch (lack of hacking is the sole reason I almost never travel with my PP if crossing timezones). However, if that weren't the case, I'd probably simply go with the new bracelet instead of having it re-cased. At least then I would only have to wait for the bracelet to ship and wouldn't have the potential unknown of something else getting messed up during the re-casing.
I don't know when and how the final polish is done but according to that Patek Service Center rep it seems key that all parts are polished in close sequence such that the polishing materials have the same wear status.
ts3 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11 June 2019, 07:19 AM   #46
PJ S
"TRF" Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: UK
Posts: 3,626
Quote:
Originally Posted by dannyp View Post
I didn't realize that the final polish was done once the watch was assembled.

Ö
Itís not. Too many angles and far too awkward to handle and manipulate into position.

The constituent parts of the case and bracelet are done individually, and once the bracelet is assembled and the non-removable links pinned, the sides are made flush and given a brushed finish.
PJ S is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11 June 2019, 07:30 AM   #47
Pimpsy
2019 Pledge Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: New Jersey
Watch: PP 5712/1A
Posts: 274
Quote:
Originally Posted by PJ S View Post
Itís not. Too many angles and far too awkward to handle and manipulate into position.

The constituent parts of the case and bracelet are done individually, and once the bracelet is assembled and the non-removable links pinned, the sides are made flush and given a brushed finish.
At the NYC expo, I was told that the Nautilus bracelet is assembled, chamfered, satin brushed, taped, then polished. I was actually surprised until one of the technicians explained that it would otherwise be too hard to work with the individual pieces and get the chamfers/finish right.

All of that said...rust??? Either a serious defect in material or some other answer. Either way, I'd have it back to the AD in a jiffy!
Pimpsy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11 June 2019, 07:33 AM   #48
PJ S
"TRF" Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: UK
Posts: 3,626
Quote:
Originally Posted by JR16 View Post
Luckily should be covered under warranty, so would just have PP replace bracelet. I doubt they would replace entire watch.
Consumer law trumps manufacturer warranty, if the State or Federal legislation dictates the OP is able to reject the goods as of unmerchandisable quality.
Obviously it benefits Patek to swap the bracelet, and push the OP to accepting this under the threat of not knowing how soon a replacement could be made available to him.
PJ S is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11 June 2019, 07:36 AM   #49
Mbbgysam
2019 Pledge Member
 
Mbbgysam's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2013
Real Name: K
Location: USA
Posts: 338
An interesting excerpt from Patek's site here: https://www.patek.com/en/company/sav...-and-bracelets

A finished example: The Nautilus

After machining, it takes around 55 different hand-finishing operations to complete the Nautilus case and bracelet. It begins with preparing the exterior links one by one: emerizing on the underside and satin brushing on top. Then preparing the center links one by one: emerizing on the underside, mirror polishing on top. Next is the assembly of the bracelet: fitting the links together and driving in the pins.

Chamfering, which means cutting away sharp edges, is then performed on the underside and top of the bracelet. The underside and top are then satin brushed for a uniform surface. Next is masking - protecting the surrounding area ahead of the next operation with lacquer or tape, and attaching perforated masking tape along the top of the bracelet. Then the center links and chamfer work are polished and buffed. Next, the clasp is assembled, adjusted for tension, fitted to the bracelet, and the cover riveted (on a triple-blade clasp). A final inspection follows this.
Mbbgysam is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11 June 2019, 08:02 AM   #50
enjoythemusic
"TRF" Member
 
enjoythemusic's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Real Name: Steven
Location: USA
Posts: 4,229
I was just looking at my chnr and I'm curious why Patek doesn't have the screw heads perfectly flat / level with the bracelet like Rolex does?
__________________
----------------------
Enjoy Your Time,

-- Steven
enjoythemusic is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11 June 2019, 08:19 AM   #51
PJ S
"TRF" Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: UK
Posts: 3,626
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pimpsy View Post
At the NYC expo, I was told that the Nautilus bracelet is assembled, chamfered, satin brushed, taped, then polished. I was actually surprised until one of the technicians explained that it would otherwise be too hard to work with the individual pieces and get the chamfers/finish right.

...
Bracelet yes, but not the complete watch.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Mbbgysam View Post
An interesting excerpt from Patek's site here: https://www.patek.com/en/company/sav...-and-bracelets

...


FFwd to 2:25


PJ S is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11 June 2019, 08:21 AM   #52
Russell996
2019 GMT CHNR Pledge Member
 
Russell996's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2016
Location: New Forest. UK
Posts: 2,134
When did you get your piece, from your post it seems even more recent than April?

https://www.rolexforums.com/showpost...2&postcount=94
Russell996 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 11 June 2019, 08:49 AM   #53
np2016
"TRF" Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2016
Location: Ohio
Posts: 261
Ive been wearing my 5711 daily lately and zero rust anywhere on the bracelet. I clean it occasionally in water with dawn soap.
np2016 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11 June 2019, 09:34 AM   #54
GreatHarry
"TRF" Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Real Name: Cliffy
Location: Korea
Watch: CHNR
Posts: 179
Take it to the lady with the JoolTool.......

Just kidding!

As many TRFers have already mentioned here, SUS doesn't rust. There are exceptions, but the steel used in wristwatch manufacture has a low carbon content which resists oxidisation, even in harsh environments. If the "rust" you talk about had only been on one side of the bracelet, then I would've been inclined to suggest that you have picked up some carbon steel (mild steel) from somewhere and cross contaminated your bracelet. But because it's appeared on both sides, that would suggest a defect in manufacture, welding process, material, etc.
Perhaps the best answer would be to return to PP, for a full explanation and replacement bracelet.
GreatHarry is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11 June 2019, 09:42 AM   #55
GreatHarry
"TRF" Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Real Name: Cliffy
Location: Korea
Watch: CHNR
Posts: 179
Looking at the AP manufacturing video, it doesn't look as though filler metal is used during the welding process, the excess metal from the pins is the filler. I'm only speculating here, but perhaps the welding current was fluctuating during welding on your bracelet, meaning that the current could've been too high during some of the welds and disturbed the crystalline structure of the bracelet steel causing it to rust.
I understand that this isn't really helping your problem, but might go to help you fight the case for a new bracelet.
Good luck!
GreatHarry is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11 June 2019, 11:14 AM   #56
S``
"TRF" Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: Not Mars
Posts: 700
Quote:
Originally Posted by dannyp View Post





That photo isn't a 5711. Chronograph pushers visible (and different case back). I'm guessing that a thicker watch can accommodate a thicker bracelet, allowing for thicker screws/pins.
Nope, you are in for a surprise. Older 5711 bracelets came with screws, not pin and sleeves. Mine, purchased in early 2012 came with the BDP (Screwed) bracelet.


Sent from my VTR-L29 using Tapatalk
S`` is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11 June 2019, 11:24 AM   #57
dannyp
"TRF" Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: usa
Posts: 1,413
Quote:
Originally Posted by PJ S View Post
Consumer law trumps manufacturer warranty, if the State or Federal legislation dictates the OP is able to reject the goods as of unmerchandisable quality.
Obviously it benefits Patek to swap the bracelet, and push the OP to accepting this under the threat of not knowing how soon a replacement could be made available to him.
The problem is that I believe PP/AD could simply provide a full refund. That may be fine on an easily-obtainable piece, but in this case, it could be years before OP sees the same watch available again.

However, should the OP demand a new watch, PP will likely take the old one back, completely recondition it, and then sell it as new. I know this because when my 5065 died after a month of wear, I insisted on a brand new one. Several months after receiving it I got a call from the AD, asking if I could send back the box/papers from the original, as it had been reconditioned by PP and was back in their display case.

Quote:
Originally Posted by enjoythemusic View Post
I was just looking at my chnr and I'm curious why Patek doesn't have the screw heads perfectly flat / level with the bracelet like Rolex does?
Due to its thinness, doesn't the Nautilus bracelet use pins, instead of screws? Probably a lot harder to get that so perfect when you have so little space to work with and aren't using threaded screws that stop going in when the threads end.
dannyp is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11 June 2019, 01:11 PM   #58
Peter Shore
Banned
 
Join Date: May 2019
Location: Dubai
Posts: 79
PP excuse versus economic reality is taht screws over time became difficult to take out whereas a pin could be bashed out with a hammer
Peter Shore is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11 June 2019, 03:31 PM   #59
S``
"TRF" Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: Not Mars
Posts: 700
Quote:
Originally Posted by Peter Shore View Post
PP excuse versus economic reality is taht screws over time became difficult to take out whereas a pin could be bashed out with a hammer
Exactly, they had it in screws before, then took it out of the design....

And people actually believed because it's due to the thickness of the bracelet?

Laughable

Sent from my VTR-L29 using Tapatalk
S`` is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11 June 2019, 03:40 PM   #60
Russell996
2019 GMT CHNR Pledge Member
 
Russell996's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2016
Location: New Forest. UK
Posts: 2,134
Quote:
Originally Posted by dannyp View Post
I know this because when my 5065 died after a month of wear, I insisted on a brand new one. Several months after receiving it I got a call from the AD, asking if I could send back the box/papers from the original, as it had been reconditioned by PP and was back in their display case.
Presumably as a used piece after being reconditioned? PP aren’t going to scrap a watch for a simple service issue and they will need the papers to sell it on.
Russell996 is online now   Reply With Quote
Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


*Banner Of The Month*
This space is provided to horological resources.





Copyright ©2004-2019, The Rolex Forums. All Rights Reserved.

ROLEXROLEXROLEXROLEXROLEXROLEXROLEXROLEXROLEXROLEXROLEXROLEX

Rolex is a registered trademark of ROLEX USA. The Rolex Forums is not affiliated with ROLEX USA in any way.