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22 December 2018, 09:38 PM | #61 |
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"Online abusive relationship"? Sounds like she was a willing participant. They should do some research on her accounts to see if this was done before.
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22 December 2018, 10:42 PM | #62 |
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good resolution... but im confused as the wire wasn't really "reversed" correct? Its going to be transferred back to you is my understanding as a separate transaction. Can a wire even be reversed? Thats my biggest fear if i ever sold anything... get paid, send the watch, and then the wire gets reversed. I don't think that is possible though
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25 December 2018, 10:32 AM | #63 |
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I’m a little late to the party but I thought once a wire is sent, it’s irreversible?
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25 December 2018, 11:01 AM | #64 |
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Not necessarily. This case proves its not always the case. The bar is set high though and you have to initiate process before funds are withdrawn or transferred at the receiving bank.
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26 December 2018, 12:25 PM | #65 |
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That’s exactly right. Within 48 hrs of the wire being sent, I contacted the local PD, and both sending/receiving banks. This was immediately flagged as fraud, and most receiving banks will automatically freeze funds during their review period. The local PD assigned an investigator. I was EXTREMELY fortunate for the local PD, and the fact that the funds were never disbursed. As noted from others, the key is to act fast. Hopefully this does not happen to anyone else.
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27 December 2018, 05:46 PM | #66 | |
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Thank you for sharing this story. Happy you got it sorted it out favorably. I have been very fortunate that from the beginning the very first guys I bought from were DavidSW and Bodybump who were stellar during the whole process.
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27 December 2018, 07:04 PM | #67 | |
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I would be concerned with being accused of fraud by a scammer and then having to sort it out. I guess that's what i would do as i would want to protect myself.
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27 December 2018, 08:45 PM | #68 |
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This case proves a wire transfer can be frozen for fraud, not that it can be reversed. A reverse would be performed by the buyer at will. This was frozen by the banks for fraud review at request of law enforcement, and a subsequent transfer made.
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27 December 2018, 08:53 PM | #69 |
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Perhaps it should be mandatory for new members to read certain threads as part of the onboarding process. Soon as you create an account you get to read the rules of the forum as well as some required reading. Perhaps TRF should create a clearing house, sellers send the watch to a neutral party... buyer sends money to same neutral party, payment and watch are verified, small fee is perhaps charged and all shipping and reshipping is on the buyer and seller …… just a thought
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27 December 2018, 08:59 PM | #70 | |
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Better that people do proper due diligence before spending their money. |
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28 December 2018, 12:20 AM | #71 |
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I never said a reverse was possible in all instances if initiated quick enough. Obviously an investigation is required as is the assistance of the receiving bank. The point is a buyer can be made whole again if there is good reason ie scam. Wire transfers are NOT final.
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28 December 2018, 12:23 AM | #72 | |
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Frozen. so the money cant go anywhere. Then i assume it gets confiscated some how and then it gets put back into the buyers account or the scammer is forced to transfer it back. Not that the money goes, and then bounces back like a refund as part of the same transaction.
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28 December 2018, 12:39 AM | #73 | |
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Words have meaning. And in this case the word reverse is not appropriate to the remedy, as it is not reversed. Rather, a second transaction is initiated as a result of the fraud case, presuming the case resolves in favor of the buyer and the funds are accessible. |
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28 December 2018, 03:05 AM | #74 |
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Wow!
Glad it all worked out. You were very fortunate on many fronts.
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28 December 2018, 05:03 AM | #75 | |
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Agreed. Proof is that these suggestions pop up so often that it tells me newbies don’t bother to even read the stickies in the Classifieds. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro
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28 December 2018, 09:40 AM | #76 | |
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In most cases, local PD does not initiate the freeze. Once a bank even gets a whiff of fraud, they freeze the funds. My calls to my bank and the receiving bank were enough to immediately freeze the funds, not local PD contact. The lessons: buy the seller, and if you do make a mistake (as you all should know, humans are prone to do) act FAST. |
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28 December 2018, 09:42 AM | #77 |
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28 December 2018, 10:33 AM | #78 | |
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28 December 2018, 10:38 AM | #79 | |
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You were fortunate that local PD provided the banks the information they needed to agree that fraud occurred, and that the scammer hadn't immediately disbursed the funds. Had it been just you asking for funds from the recipients account without law enforcement corroboration, or had the scammer acted fast and moved the funds, you would have no recourse to recover your funds. |
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28 December 2018, 12:07 PM | #80 |
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We could go around and around but the point is that fast work can get the funds wired to a fraudster back in one’s account.
The OP has done a great service explaining the whole scheme here and kibitzing about it with “if’s and but’s” is meaningless. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro
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28 December 2018, 12:18 PM | #81 | |
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You said that the investigator contacted the receiving back, thus, creating a freeze on the funds. That is incorrect. In contacting both institutions, the receiving institution told me that they put a freeze on the funds at their bank (as I provided date, time, amount, etc.) at the time of my call, due to their back and forth with my bank, and my insistent calling. This was before an investigator contacted them. Again, the minute a financial institution (especially a smaller, perhaps more conservative bank) receives word of fraud, typical bank protocol is to pause and investigate. I was incredibly fortunate in every stretch of the imagination, especially in the fact that the funds were still in the bank. |
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28 December 2018, 12:22 PM | #82 | |
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28 December 2018, 12:23 PM | #83 |
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-Banned user Rode
Sorry to hear.
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28 December 2018, 09:15 PM | #84 | |
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I thought I implied your case is unique because the local PD gave the banks the evidence they needed to act quickly. Without that, it would have just been your claims against his claims, which would have needed a court to resolve. No one should entertain a wire transfer with the notion that they can just get it reversed if something goes wrong. Which, goes back to buy the seller. |
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28 December 2018, 09:42 PM | #85 |
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[QUOTE=Abdullah71601;9209089] Banks don't freeze funds just on someone's say so. If they did, it would get abused and there would be a million claims a day. And a recipients bank will protect the recipients interests to avoid being liable for scurrilous claims against the recipient.
I do agree to an extent, however, this is likely an overly simplistic view of bank protocol. I reported the incident to both banks within 48 hrs. Once the receiving bank heard from both me and my bank, a freeze was put on the funds. At the point of the freeze, no investigator was involved. Therefore, the freeze was in fact based on someone’s say so. Given a conversation with a receiving bank rep, it’s likely they honored our request due to suspicious activity; perhaps multiple inflows and outflows offshore, wires from different people for large amounts, etc.. Who knows, but yes, funds were frozen prior to investigator/local PD correspondence. |
28 December 2018, 09:59 PM | #86 | |
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Implying that people here will get their money back with a few phone calls as long as they act fast is dangerous. |
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