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Old 8 November 2018, 12:54 AM   #1
gaoxing84
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Bad Experience dealing with Alex 21

I would like to change my feedback after further inspection of the Sub Date that i received from Alex21 (Yacine)

He stated in his AD that the watch is Mint, free of dents, dings or cuts. But when i received it, it has 2 dents on the crown. Please see picture 1.

How the deal went down.

1. We had agreed to the price of $7900 USD and I will provide the shipping label.

2. Ask for a video call to verify that the watch is indeed in his possession.
Had the video call, it was blur but i did saw the watch and I am ready to wire him the funds.

3. Ask for photos but received some blur photos and some clear photos. None of them showed the dent on the crown and I took his words for it.

4. Received the watch and upon a further inspection, it was pointed out to me that the watch is dented at the crown at 2 parts.

5. Went back to his ad to verify photos on it, inspect the blur photos he sent me. Realised the dent was there, it was only visible if you zoom real hard into it and you know what you're looking for.

6. Talked to Alex21, he told me he was shocked and surprised. I told him i have taken photos of the watch upon arrival, didn't see the dent at the point of time but now that i see it, its there pretty obvious.

7. Asked for a solution, to have him pay for repairs of 150 USD to replace the crown at Rolex Service Centre. He only pay upon the receipt of the replacement but he refused, saying that he done his part by sending me clear , high resolution photos and we did the video call.

8. Decided, it's not worth it to further argue on such cases since no solution can be agreed on. i just want to make sure this is made know to everyone here.

Sellers, please declare anything and describe your watch properly, be truthful about it. If only the buyer could inspect it upon arrival, find a solution and fix it. or have the watch sent back.

Buyers, please ensure you do your due diligence, unlike me.


The sales thread
https://www.rolexforums.com/showthre...98#post9073298

Photo posted on the ad


Zooming in



"High resolution off-focused photo sent from Alex21 to me


The day i received the watch and i took this - I have the fedex delivery date and timestamp of the photo


Pretty sums it up.
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Old 8 November 2018, 01:08 AM   #2
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His solution is for me to ship the watch back which i refused because the shipping and insurance back is going to cost more than the repair itself.
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Old 8 November 2018, 01:56 AM   #3
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Sorry to hear OP.

There is no way on earth a dent on the crown like that went unnoticed.
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Old 8 November 2018, 02:34 AM   #4
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Yeap. He told me he wasn't aware of it.
And he sustain his claim by telling me that he did send me photos (which are blur).
I expect the seller to highlight to me any imperfections if any.
I wouldn't know and what to look for.
This is how the forum goes. Trusting each other and expect people to fix the problems.
I have my fair share of seller sending me watches not as stated in their ad but all of them fixed the problem by giving discount or paying for repairs etc.

Giving him the benefit of doubt, I suggested for him to pay for repair and I will provide the repair chit from rolex. He says it's not his fault that it's dented. He didn't realised it and he told me photos was sent etc.
He even told me I am the "pro" and I should be the one to know what to look out for.
How the hell am I supposed to know there's a frigging dent when it wasn't highlighted.

God my luck but its OK. Decided that the $150 usd is not worth the arguments.
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Old 8 November 2018, 02:46 AM   #5
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When he took his “high resolution “ photos aka blurry pics he would have seen the dents for sure . Seller should pay for the repair if not represented directly. That is far from mint.
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Old 8 November 2018, 03:19 AM   #6
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Not so nice of our Alex.
In the end of the day you lost only a 150. A dent in the case would have been much worse. Time to enjoy it
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Old 8 November 2018, 03:53 AM   #7
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exactly my point. so i rest my case with such a seller.

just a reminder to the rest of the buyers. :)

thank you guys
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Old 8 November 2018, 04:04 AM   #8
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when he marked it as sold he was so excited to have his first reference in who’s who! probably won’t be the best one after this!


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Old 8 November 2018, 04:50 AM   #9
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Surprised you wrote this about me while we were still exchanging on whatsapp. But okay, allow me then for my defense to give my explanation of what happened.

You say : "He stated in his AD that the watch is Mint, free of dents, dings or cuts. But when i received it, it has 2 dents on the crown."
Me : My ad stated is a brand new-mint condition submariner showing almost no signs of wear, no beat up, no dings.
I honestly never seen any 'dent' in the crown but as i said it's almost new as it's been months i got it. You basically need a microscope to notice that if this is really my watch crown you're showing.

1. We had agreed to the price of $7900 USD and I will provide the shipping label.
That's correct.

2. Ask for a video call to verify that the watch is indeed in his possession.
Had the video call, it was blur but i did saw the watch and I am ready to wire him the funds.
Me : It was blurry from your side because you were outside as you told me. I was doing my best to not shake the watch under strong light. Cannot control focus on iphone. I have the webcam recorded where buyer asking me to get closer which i did and webcam went clear for him hence he said 'looks all good'. All recorded.
Also, why not giving me another appointment from your place so you can inspect it better if it was blurry? Why rushing? i was certainly not in rush (see attachment)

3. Ask for photos but received some blur photos and some clear photos. None of them showed the dent on the crown and I took his words for it.
Me : Wrong. this was asked on whatsapp and i took pictures the best i could. Buyer replied 'looks good' after receiving the pictures. Besides that, as professional reseller, buyer should have guided me as what specific angle shots were needed for his appreciation prior to make a decison to buy or not. I honestly never seen this issue and was very shocked to learn about it this morning but even if i take this issue into consideration that there was a dent and that i never seen it before which is possible since you need a microscope to see it, why seller rushed out and didn't take time to ask me more pictures in specific angles? i was very cooperative and took time with my phone new pictures of different angles including crown part. (see attachment)

4. Received the watch and upon a further inspection, it was pointed out to me that the watch is dented at the crown at 2 parts.
Me: Caught off guard both of us by your client who used a microscope to see these details. I'm sorry about that but i never seen this before as i have myself taken high resolution pictures never showing this issue before. I do not have the watch in my possession to see it with my eyes but again, let's this into consideration this could have been there and none of us seen it. Okay, but why in the world buyer who is in reality a professional reseller didn't ask me more precise pictures before agreeing on the deal? i would have been more than happy to take this shots.

5. Went back to his ad to verify photos on it, inspect the blur photos he sent me. Realised the dent was there, it was only visible if you zoom real hard into it and you know what you're looking for.
Me: Why don't you mention to the community the clear photos i sent you with my phone through whatsapp as you asked for them? (see attachment)
Also, you say it clearly 'it was only visible if you zoom real hard onto it'. Sorry but i couldn't see this with naked eye. I wear glasses and i'm not equiped with microscope at home. This is impossible to watch at naked eye. You need to be a professional to see this microscopic detail.

6. Talked to Alex21, he told me he was shocked and surprised. I told him i have taken photos of the watch upon arrival, didn't see the dent at the point of time but now that i see it, its there pretty obvious.
Me: Yes i'm still shocked by this. I never seen this as i was not even wearing it for a while. You said it yourself above, you didn't seen it yourself as it must be zoomed real hard to watch this detail.

7. Asked for a solution, to have him pay for repairs of 150 USD to replace the crown at Rolex Service Centre. He only pay upon the receipt of the replacement but he refused, saying that he done his part by sending me clear , high resolution photos and we did the video call.
Me: You didn't asked me for a solution. You gave me your solution to pay the repair of 150USD or you will comment about me on TRF. I offered you a solution that you don't mention there as : send me back the watch for a full refund. You laughed at me. (LOL)
You threaten me to comment about me if i don't pay the repair. I'm sorry but i told you this is not fair as you, the buyer, had to follow the protocol of transaction and check everything prior to buying. You could asked me with your expert eyes what shots were needed so you could double check if the watch was what you wanted or not. On top of that, i clearly stated this in my ad :
- B After a visual inspection and if only you're satisfied, then we can talk about shipping, insurance and bank wire details.

I sincerely did everything possible to protect and satisfy both parties. Apparetntly, It didn't work out. Sorry it turned out this way for both parties. If one day i sell again, i will insist in my ad that buyer is fully responsible after full inspection with webcam and photos. Or i might simply not sell to international again. I'm very disappointed to see that a professional reseller did not make full inspection by guiding me in what more photo angles he needed for his decision. Again, i'm not a professional. To me, this microscopic detail is ridiculous but i respect resellers for whom this detail is very important for sale.

8. Decided, it's not worth it to further argue on such cases since no solution can be agreed on. i just want to make sure this is made know to everyone here.
Me: You left the conversation on whatsapp when i asked you. Here's the solution: send me back the watch for full refund.
At this point, you were already commenting about me there. Sad but i was cooperating to help you out.
I won't pay the repair as i feel it's not fair for me as i already lowered my price and on top of that i clearly gave the chance to buyer to inspect the watch the way he wanted. On top of that, buyer got total refund from shipping due to delay. (see attachment)
Despite the fact that you're making a confortable profit, you still want me to absorb this cost so it won't affect your profit. Please don't be too greedy. You already got a super deal. Again, i'm sorry, but as a reseller, please read the ad correctly and do your inspection prior to take a decision. There was no rush. I never seen this issue and you should have seen it if you knew which parts are very important to your professional eyes. I'm not a professional like you are.

You said : Sellers, please declare anything and describe your watch properly, be truthful about it. If only the buyer could inspect it upon arrival, find a solution and fix it. or have the watch sent back.
Me : Buyers, especially reseller, it is your responsability to do your due diligeance and do a good inspection before buying. Do not do webcam while you're outside with bad connection. Ask for a new appointment if necessarly, ask for high resolution photos from specific angles as only professional eyes want to see.

Again, i'm sad it went out south for both parties after buyer declined my solution and bad mouthed about me there. Sad.
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Old 8 November 2018, 05:00 AM   #10
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Sorry if it took time to reply quickly but i had to cover his name in our correspondance (i see it was waist of time since he gave my name already)
I'd like to post the pictures i sent to him through whatsapp so you can have all the elements to judge me. First attempt wasn't possible since pics were big size. I'm resizing them to fit there.
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Old 8 November 2018, 05:05 AM   #11
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For what its worth I would not have done the transaction just based on his "fishy" AD and previous posts. But at least you got the watch and the repIr is not that much. Decieving seller!
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Old 8 November 2018, 05:15 AM   #12
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For what its worth I would not have done the transaction just based on his "fishy" AD and previous posts. But at least you got the watch and the repIr is not that much. Decieving seller!
Fishy? explain please. I was honest and my ad was very clear. Where in my ad do you see anything fishy? Please develop your statement. Thank you.
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Old 8 November 2018, 05:25 AM   #13
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Sorry to hear OP.

There is no way on earth a dent on the crown like that went unnoticed.
I swear i never seen this dent before! I do not have perfect eyes and honestly i doubt anybody could see this without a loupe or microscope.
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Old 8 November 2018, 05:36 AM   #14
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When he took his “high resolution “ photos aka blurry pics he would have seen the dents for sure . Seller should pay for the repair if not represented directly. That is far from mint.
No i didn't see that and i swear it is the truth. I still can't beleive this issue could come from my watch but like i stated it before, if this happened to my watch, i never seen it. I know i'm portrayed as the bad guy here but i offered him full refund in exchange to send me back my watch.
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Old 8 November 2018, 05:39 AM   #15
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Not so nice of our Alex.
In the end of the day you lost only a 150. A dent in the case would have been much worse. Time to enjoy it
I didn't see this and still can't beleive this dent comes from my watch. Apparently it's microscopic dent on crown that has too be zoomed very much so to be seen but i offered him to send it back to me for full refund.
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Old 8 November 2018, 05:55 AM   #16
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Alex, here is my opinion, you should refund the buyer $150. That would solve everything and you would be regarded as a trusted seller. It's a small price to pay to make everything right. Cheers!
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Old 8 November 2018, 05:58 AM   #17
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Yeap. He told me he wasn't aware of it.
And he sustain his claim by telling me that he did send me photos (which are blur).
I expect the seller to highlight to me any imperfections if any.
I wouldn't know and what to look for.
I couldn't highlight it since i never seen it. Why blaming me without taking into consideration that this hard to watch detail with naked eye was difficult to notice. Even you didn't see it. As pro reseller, you should have guided me. I'm sorry for this but i wish you could have taken your time verifying everything. Again, i was not aware of this issue at all. It was in its box as i shown it to you on webcam.

Quote:
This is how the forum goes. Trusting each other and expect people to fix the problems.

I have my fair share of seller sending me watches not as stated in their ad but all of them fixed the problem by giving discount or paying for repairs etc.

Giving him the benefit of doubt, I suggested for him to pay for repair and I will provide the repair chit from rolex. He says it's not his fault that it's dented. He didn't realised it and he told me photos was sent etc.
He even told me I am the "pro" and I should be the one to know what to look out for.
How the hell am I supposed to know there's a frigging dent when it wasn't highlighted.
Wrong, I never said it's not my fault! Prove it or take it back.

How the hell are you supposed to know? you're a pro reseller and you know what to look for. Why not asking me about crown like you asked me more pictures about the bracelet which i did?? Bracelet, crown, crystal, etc.. i don't know, you know better than me what your clients will watch. And i did all you asked for. I could do more like if you said :"could you take more pictures of the crown please?". I would have done it in heart beat like i ran for the shipping so you can get it on time.

[/QUOTE]God my luck but its OK. Decided that the $150 usd is not worth the arguments.[/QUOTE]
Not worth the arguments? but you already fought for your $150 on whatsapp and on forum. You bad mouthed on me while you were still on whatsapp with me arguing. What more do you want? i told you i take back the watch for full refund.
You sound like a victim who has been scammed or something. No you have not been a victim my friend. I say it again, i never seen this microscopic detail. i offered you full refund.
You're sad because of greed. You got the watch for 7900USD, cheapest price ever on forum + you got full refund from fedex shipping but you still feel sad because of 150USD shrinking your profit. I hear you, for God sake send me back the watch and i will give you full refund as quick as possible. End of story.
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Old 8 November 2018, 06:20 AM   #18
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Alex, here is my opinion, you should refund the buyer $150. That would solve everything and you would be regarded as a trusted seller. It's a small price to pay to make everything right. Cheers!
Thank you Chunky for your opinion but you see i still have doubt about this dent coming from my watch to be honest. I agree with you though it's small price but when he wrote all of this about me to make me look like a scammer, it really hurt me because i put all my heart to satisfy the buyer. I spent time and energy for my first sale to please the buyer and was always there for him. It's just not cool he bad mouthed me there. Everybody jumped on me as bad seller while i was still checking my pictures high res. on my pc and holding buyer on whatsapp for conflict resolution. We could have found a solution. People already crucified me without even reading my arguments. Buyer is obviously presented as the victim and seller as the bad guy. My reputation is already damaged now despite all my efforts. I will never sell international again, never ever.
Cheers!
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Old 8 November 2018, 07:22 AM   #19
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when he marked it as sold he was so excited to have his first reference in who’s who! probably won’t be the best one after this!


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Yes i was indeed excited because he received my watch. I was obviously happy that all went well for both of us prior to receiving his message on whatsapp. Sad.
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Old 8 November 2018, 07:39 AM   #20
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[/QUOTE]There is no way on earth a dent on the crown like that went unnoticed.[/QUOTE]

Second thought. There is no way it went unnoticed you said?
Buyer (pro reseller) got the watch on Monday and notice it on Wednesday despite the fact that he got the watch in hands for couple of days.
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Old 8 November 2018, 07:44 AM   #21
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Wrong, I never said it's not my fault! Prove it or take it back.
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Thank you Chunky for your opinion but you see i still have doubt about this dent coming from my watch to be honest.
The above statements appear somewhat inconsistent.

Although you ask for the watch to be sent back and a refund, its not a situation that really calls for a return/refund as the issue is not something that really strikes at the fundamental nature of the transaction.

The buyer ordinarily in this case would have the option to seek a refund or alternatively receive what is a relatively small sum to compensate him for the issue.

Anyway this is a private transaction and its up to the buyer and seller to work it out.
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Old 8 November 2018, 08:37 AM   #22
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The above statements appear somewhat inconsistent.

Although you ask for the watch to be sent back and a refund, its not a situation that really calls for a return/refund as the issue is not something that really strikes at the fundamental nature of the transaction.

The buyer ordinarily in this case would have the option to seek a refund or alternatively receive what is a relatively small sum to compensate him for the issue.

Anyway this is a private transaction and its up to the buyer and seller to work it out.
He said : Giving him the benefit of doubt, I suggested for him to pay for repair and I will provide the repair chit from rolex. He says it's not his fault that it's dented. He didn't realised it and he told me photos was sent etc.
Me : I said i never said 'It's not my fault' regarding his statement. I was just in shock and looking for my pictures high res on pc to check this 'dent' if it was there or not.


You said : [QUOTE Anyway this is a private transaction and its up to the buyer and seller to work it out.[/QUOTE]

Agreed. This a private transaction and was willing to give him full refund. I understand he doesn't want full refund since this is a great deal and 150USD will only shrink his comfortable profit since he already got full refund from fedex. I get it, there was a deal between us and this is none of my business how much profit he makes.
However, i was on whatsapp with him for conflict resolution and told him to hold on while i was checking my pictures high res on pc. Was looking for them when i learned he already bad mouthed me on TRF. Okay, no problem, let's put aside the pictures and resolution of conflict. I had to act quick to give my full version because people were already portraying me as the bad guy. Anyway, my decision is already taken, i won't sell again to international. I never thought this type of scenario could happened. I should have written a clause saying : "After inspection, if you buy it, you're responsible". How in the world i'm certain him or his client didn't damage the crown accidentally? because he has more references than me? Although i personally do trust him and see no reason why he would lie to me since he paid me first but still, i wish a better protection should have been put in place to protect both of us.
As said before, there was no rush, i would have done more pictures to fullfill buyer requests, more time of webcam if necessarly to make sure both parties agreed on watch that has been shown. I definitely think now i have failed to protect myself with this clause from international buyers.
My advice is stick with local buyers only and meet at AD. The only way to sell a Rolex with no trouble.
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Old 8 November 2018, 09:26 AM   #23
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Thank you Chunky for your opinion but you see i still have doubt about this dent coming from my watch to be honest. I agree with you though it's small price but when he wrote all of this about me to make me look like a scammer, it really hurt me because i put all my heart to satisfy the buyer. I spent time and energy for my first sale to please the buyer and was always there for him. It's just not cool he bad mouthed me there. Everybody jumped on me as bad seller while i was still checking my pictures high res. on my pc and holding buyer on whatsapp for conflict resolution. We could have found a solution. People already crucified me without even reading my arguments. Buyer is obviously presented as the victim and seller as the bad guy. My reputation is already damaged now despite all my efforts. I will never sell international again, never ever.
Cheers!
The dents are obvious from your own pictures. If you care about your reputation here as a seller, refund the $150.
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Old 8 November 2018, 10:14 AM   #24
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The dents are obvious from your own pictures. If you care about your reputation here as a seller, refund the $150.
The dents are not obvious with naked eye and were obvious only when zoomed in. I honestly never noticed that. Looking forward with OP to resolve this issue.
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Old 8 November 2018, 11:17 AM   #25
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Its weird how there are such dents in the crown are there but the crown guards are unmarked.
That tends to indicate that the dents are either a manufacturing defect (and occurred prior to assembly) or they deliberate made because it takes precision to do that without damaging the crown guards.
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Old 8 November 2018, 11:36 AM   #26
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Its weird how there are such dents in the crown are there but the crown guards are unmarked.
That tends to indicate that the dents are either a manufacturing defect (and occurred prior to assembly) or they deliberate made because it takes precision to do that without damaging the crown guards.
I'm honestly stunned by the news. I still can't beleive how this could have happened. I really have no idea. manufacturing defect i don't think so, bought it from AD. I strongly doubt it that AD hasn't noticed this dents. Tried to comprehend this dents but it beats me. This story is really strange to me.
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Old 8 November 2018, 12:28 PM   #27
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To Op, a question just crossed my mind though.

You posted this picture showing the dents and titled :
The day i received the watch and i took this - I have the fedex delivery date and timestamp of the photo

Based on your picture and your saying (whatsapp chat), how come you told me this issue on Wednesday november 7th when in fact you received the watch on Monday 5th which is 2 days before?

Why not telling me right away this issue the very same day you took this picture and claiming you "noticed' these dents?
In one hand, this picture showing the dents pretendingly seen the same day you received the watch, on the other hand you seemed very happy chatting with me the very same day you took that picture and even telling me you're selling the watch the next day..
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Old 8 November 2018, 01:46 PM   #28
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Originally Posted by Alex21 View Post
To Op, a question just crossed my mind though.

You posted this picture showing the dents and titled :
The day i received the watch and i took this - I have the fedex delivery date and timestamp of the photo

Based on your picture and your saying (whatsapp chat), how come you told me this issue on Wednesday november 7th when in fact you received the watch on Monday 5th which is 2 days before?

Why not telling me right away this issue the very same day when you took this picture and claiming you "noticed' these dents and took picture?
In one hand, this picture showing the dents pretendingly seen the same day you received the watch, on the other hand you seemed very happy chatting with me the very same day you took that picture and even telling me you're selling the watch the next day..


I'd like to hear the answer to this also....
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Old 8 November 2018, 02:22 PM   #29
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To Op, a question just crossed my mind though.

You posted this picture showing the dents and titled :
The day i received the watch and i took this - I have the fedex delivery date and timestamp of the photo

Based on your picture and your saying (whatsapp chat), how come you told me this issue on Wednesday november 7th when in fact you received the watch on Monday 5th which is 2 days before?

Why not telling me right away this issue the very same day you took this picture and claiming you "noticed' these dents?
In one hand, this picture showing the dents pretendingly seen the same day you received the watch, on the other hand you seemed very happy chatting with me the very same day you took that picture and even telling me you're selling the watch the next day..
Like i told you over whatsapp.

Watch was received on Monday 5th November.
I took pictures and sent it to a client.
All looks good. Why? because nobody knew there was a 2 dents.

My client met me up on Wednesday 7th November to pick up the watch.
Upon further real life inspection, using a loupe, he told me there was 2 dent.
Took the photos and sent you immediately.
went back to check my photos taken upon receiving the watch from fedex.
the photos taken at 12.35pm shows 2 dents on the crown, why did i notice? because i knew what i need to look out for.

you can only see it when you know what you're looking for. like you said, you didn't notice it as well (again, benefit of the doubt)

Watch is in my possession inside the box from Monday 5th November 12.35pm to Wednesday 7th November 1.30pm (My local time).

It's ok if you do not want to admit that there's a dent.
I can give you the benefit of the doubt that the dent is unnoticeable under the naked eye.
But the dent is PHYSICALLY there. Based on the past photos you sent me and the one listed on your AD, it's visible only if you know what you're looking for. But you argued that it's the reflection.
I think you need to improved your photo taking skills on your phone.
The photos you sent me is off focus and definitely, somehow or rather, when you're taking the photos, the dent can be spotted.

I am only asking for repair cost to be reimbursed back to me. But you refused. I don't mind splitting it and to be fair to both of us. You kept arguing that its not your fault

So i decided not to pursue the matter and changed my feedback towards you as a buyer.
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Old 8 November 2018, 02:23 PM   #30
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I'm honestly stunned by the news. I still can't beleive how this could have happened. I really have no idea. manufacturing defect i don't think so, bought it from AD. I strongly doubt it that AD hasn't noticed this dents. Tried to comprehend this dents but it beats me. This story is really strange to me.
it isn't strange at all.

it's either you're lying or i am.

i don't see why i need to cheat you out of 150 usd.

i don't see a need to start something like this to destroy my good standing reputation.
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