The real story behind ADs lists!!!

[Dyim]

Originally Posted by BNABOD

Yup but you don’t need to buy a scarf and a pony to get the one you really want. Either way I am not paying over msrp for anything and certainly not a watch . To each his own


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You just described Hermes with their Kelly and Birkin. Same game.

And I don't think they ever put those out front on display either. Always at the back. Sounds familiar?

They have lots of other leather bags in addition to B and K. Just like DJ and professional series in the Rolex line up. I guess Rolex is pulling a Hermes!

[kearez]

I really don 't see the issue with this. Want a larger discount on your watch? Buy more at the same time. As others have stated there is no "list", the high spenders will get first choice on all the "hot" items. Money talks.

I'm sure if you wanted to see this person head to AD have a look at PM watches maybe a few DateJusts with diamonds for a wife or girlfriend and then enquire about a Daytona, Hulk etc bet a few will come out of the safe ready to be bought.

If you want the Daytona, 5711, 5712 etc watch pay the premium for it.

[Rrpdc]

Originally Posted by doboy007

it seems like a common practice in asian countries from what i read on trf.

+1.

[No SUBctitute]

Originally Posted by khunpepe

1. I asked for Deepsea D Blue, sales rep said no we haven’t got one.

2. She said “Would you like to put your name on a waiting list”

3. I said yes

4. I was told that the wait could be a couple of months to six months as I was 4-5 on the list.

5. She informed me on the price, and yes it has premium on it.

6. She said we only offered the hot items to selected customers, only to those who we feel are ok with the price.

7. The next day I received a call from her and she said the watch just arrived today.

8. I asked what happened to 4-5 guys before me. They are not ready she said.

9. She said put down 10% deposit and she can hold the watch until the end of February.

10. So everything worked out and I have a D Blue on my wrist.

What I see above is a brilliant salesperson. It looks like ten steps to maximizing profit from the customer.

Did it ever occur to you that there is another forum call "rolexADforums" and the salesperson posted the below after you bought the watch:

"This guy came in looking for a DeepSea Blue like many others have. But when customers come in to look at it they don't always buy. And, if they do, its hard getting them to buy at a premium. So, I figured out a sales method which is more likely to result in a sale, and at a premium price!

I told the customer we didn't have any but that I could put his name on a list. At the point he said "yes" I began to smile because I realized I likely just made a sale at a premium price of a watch I have in the back safe. After he said he wanted to be on the list, I told him it would be months and months before I had one for him, as there were 4-5 people on the list ahead of him. Then I told him the price, which was above list price. He was so happy that he got on the "list" and that he might get the chance to buy one in many months that he didn't even blink at the price. In order to increase the likelihood that he will pull the trigger when I later tell him I had a watch for him, I then reminded him that we only offer hot models like this to select customers. I could tell by his reaction that he was grateful I was offering a hot model to him.

The next day I called the customer to tell him that the hot watch he wanted which we didn't have in stock had magically come in. Additionally, I let him know that lucky for him the others on the waiting list were not ready to buy yet, thus he could buy it immediately. He told me he couldn't come in for a couple months, and I told him to just give me a 10% downpayment and I would hold it for him. Thankfully, he didn't wonder why I was so willing to hold for months for him an out of stock watch (that I sell at a premium) that has a waiting list of nearly half a dozen people. It feels great whenever I put the extra profit above list price into my pocket!"

That is a brilliant sales job. These salespeople do this for a living and have likely been doing it for years. Not all are this smart, but many are. How likely is it that the very next day that you asked for an out of stock watch one arrived at the store. And then how likely do you think it is that all the others on the waiting list were no longer interested in buying the watch. It is possible that things happened as she said, but it is quite unlikely. These salespeople are cut from the same cloth as car and mattress salespeople. Most everything they tell you is to maximize the amount and speed with which you part with your money. There are some super straight forward AD salesman. There are also many who engage in sales tactics which are misleading or deceitful. Buyer beware!

[peacocknation]

Originally Posted by No SUBctitute

What I see above is a brilliant salesperson. It looks like ten steps to maximizing profit from the customer.

Did it ever occur to you that there is another forum call "rolexADforums" and the salesperson posted the below after you bought the watch:

"This guy came in looking for a DeepSea Blue like many others have. But when customers come in to look at it they don't always buy. And, if they do, its hard getting them to buy at a premium. So, I figured out a sales method which is more likely to result in a sale, and at a premium price!

I told the customer we didn't have any but that I could put his name on a list. At the point he said "yes" I began to smile because I realized I likely just made a sale at a premium price of a watch I have in the back safe. After he said he wanted to be on the list, I told him it would be months and months before I had one for him, as there were 4-5 people on the list ahead of him. Then I told him the price, which was above list price. He was so happy that he got on the "list" and that he might get the chance to buy one in many months that he didn't even blink at the price. In order to increase the likelihood that he will pull the trigger when I later tell him I had a watch for him, I then reminded him that we only offer hot models like this to select customers. I could tell by his reaction that he was grateful I was offering a hot model to him.

The next day I called the customer to tell him that the hot watch he wanted which we didn't have in stock had magically come in. Additionally, I let him know that lucky for him the others on the waiting list were not ready to buy yet, thus he could buy it immediately. He told me he couldn't come in for a couple months, and I told him to just give me a 10% downpayment and I would hold it for him. Thankfully, he didn't wonder why I was so willing to hold for months for him an out of stock watch (that I sell at a premium) that has a waiting list of nearly half a dozen people. It feels great whenever I put the extra profit above list price into my pocket!"

That is a brilliant sales job. These salespeople do this for a living and have likely been doing it for years. Not all are this smart, but many are. How likely is it that the very next day that you asked for an out of stock watch one arrived at the store. And then how likely do you think it is that all the others on the waiting list were no longer interested in buying the watch. It is possible that things happened as she said, but it is quite unlikely. These salespeople are cut from the same cloth as car and mattress salespeople. Most everything they tell you is to maximize the amount and speed with which you part with your money. There are some super straight forward AD salesman. There are also many who engage in sales tactics which are misleading or deceitful. Buyer beware!

As a professional B2B sales person calling on Fortune 500 companies, this type of behavior, if real, is incredibly disturbing to me and is what gives sales people a bad rap. You don't close business and take extra profit by lying.

I will say this though - other parts of the world are not as truthful when it comes to business deals as Americans are. Don't get me wrong - there are Americans who lie, but it's more the exception in a business setting. Other cultures are more ok with lying and bullying, buyer beware - and fight fire with fire.

[DoctorA]

Originally Posted by peacocknation

As a professional B2B sales person calling on Fortune 500 companies, this type of behavior, if real, is incredibly disturbing to me and is what gives sales people a bad rap. You don't close business and take extra profit by lying.

I will say this though - other parts of the world are not as truthful when it comes to business deals as Americans are. Don't get me wrong - there are Americans who lie, but it's more the exception in a business setting. Other cultures are more ok with lying and bullying, buyer beware - and fight fire with fire.

Unfortunately in the Rolex ADs world it is the standard not the exception!!
It has nothing to do with the country or the ADs nationality!
How many of us were told you will but out on a list and we all know what a “list” is
How many times an AD said “we don’t have a daytona in stock” while it’s sitting in their vault
How many times a hot item came out of the vault when bundled with something else?

This is not to say that all sales people are bad or to say that I’m generalizing but unfortunately lately that’s been the practice by most ADs
I won’t justify for them and say supply and demand! Morals don’t change based on Supply and demand
My personal opinion and my $0.02!!!

[EDL7]

Rolex itself is the cause of all of this..
But maybe they have us all fooled...the AD's that is..
They sell to the greys at retail or close..then the greys sell at a big markup...and then the AD's make more moolah by selling out of the safe in the backroom..at even more "expanded" prices...
Who woulda thunk..
Kinda turns my stomach though..this level of deceit..bordering on sadistic..
Just to squeeze the last nickel out of every customer they can..with a smile on their face..like they are doing them a big favor..and the customer falling for it lock stock and barrel..

[topfuel25]

You know something is very wrong when there are a number of Daytona SS stocks with local AD warranty card on sale by grey sellers.

[Old Geezer]

Originally Posted by christopheran

My AD showed me a white Daytona c, SS SkyDweller, and LVc when he sold me a BLNR. He said they were “sold,” but they may become available if I was interested in a DateJust or something... I actually want a DJ41, but don’t wanna drop $20k at once after spending $9k on the BLNR.

AD in Germany while on a business trip offered me a Daytona if I bought a DD. They also had LVc, BLNR and all variations of Subs in the case claiming they were sold. They showed me black and white Daytonas but those were not displayed. At a discount on the DD I may have considered it even though I don’t like the game but they wanted full price.

[Kigan]

Originally Posted by tng11

<... > it's a sad state of affairs where ads (i gather not a small portion of them either) are lying to customers with intent to deceive and manipulate them. I would respect them much more if they had just outright said "look, i know you're waiting for a daytona, but you haven't bought enough from us yet. If you buy x, then i can offer you one, otherwise it's not happening." blunt, but truthful at the very least.
<... >

+1

[Rolex74]

If the AD would have pulled that with me I would walk and tell them how shady they are, sorry it is just a watch, no matter how much you may like it there is no reason to be taken advantage of.

[topfuel25]

Originally Posted by Rolex74

If the AD would have pulled that with me I would walk and tell them how shady they are, sorry it is just a watch, no matter how much you may like it there is no reason to be taken advantage of.

The fact is there are many willing buyers especially the mainland Chinese whom will buy into their game. Just look at how ADs in Hong Kong work...

[Rolex74]

Originally Posted by topfuel25

The fact is there are many willing buyers especially the mainland Chinese whom will buy into their game. Just look at how ADs in Hong Kong work...

Some people like being taken advantage of, sad to say

[drmizzou]

Originally Posted by DoctorA

Unfortunately in the Rolex ADs world it is the standard not the exception!!
It has nothing to do with the country or the ADs nationality!
How many of us were told you will but out on a list and we all know what a “list” is
How many times an AD said “we don’t have a daytona in stock” while it’s sitting in their vault
How many times a hot item came out of the vault when bundled with something else?

This is not to say that all sales people are bad or to say that I’m generalizing but unfortunately lately that’s been the practice by most ADs
I won’t justify for them and say supply and demand! Morals don’t change based on Supply and demand
My personal opinion and my $0.02!!!

So it’s Monday. Are you going to buy them!?

[gegarrenton]

Originally Posted by DoctorA

Totally agree. And it’s what shocked me the most that they can do rudely put those contingencies after flat out lying to my face that they don’t have one

I guess the saying “used care salesman” will change to “new Rolex saleman”!!!!

No offense to any sale’s person!!..................(except for my Rolex AD!!)

And you are still considering buying from him. lol.

[adg31]

If they are like this before you buy, just think about all the great service and help you can look forward to in the years ahead once they've got your money...


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[samson66]

Originally Posted by BNABOD

Yup but you don’t need to buy a scarf and a pony to get the one you really want. Either way I am not paying over msrp for anything and certainly not a watch . To each his own


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I just have to say I got a great laugh at that "scarf and pony" line! Great stuff...

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[BNABOD]

Originally Posted by samson66

I just have to say I got a great laugh at that "scarf and pony" line! Great stuff...

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The beauty is that the AD will almost make you think you need one too...and you shall debate and then finally decide to adopt said pony to later trade it for a race horse


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[HK Islandboy]

Originally Posted by kearez

I really don 't see the issue with this. Want a larger discount on your watch? Buy more at the same time. As others have stated there is no "list", the high spenders will get first choice on all the "hot" items. Money talks.

I'm sure if you wanted to see this person head to AD have a look at PM watches maybe a few DateJusts with diamonds for a wife or girlfriend and then enquire about a Daytona, Hulk etc bet a few will come out of the safe ready to be bought.

If you want the Daytona, 5711, 5712 etc watch pay the premium for it.

Well put - I very much agree

[Ichiran]

At the end of the day, the biggest spender has the right to choose whichever watches he/she likes. The 2nd biggest spender chooses the remaining, and the 3rd biggest spender still gets to choose.

The rest pray.. or pay premium at the greys.

[adg31]

Originally Posted by Ichiran

At the end of the day, the biggest spender has the right to choose whichever watches he/she likes. The 2nd biggest spender chooses the remaining, and the 3rd biggest spender still gets to choose.



The rest pray.. or pay premium at the greys.

...and so we come right back to the removal of stickers, retention of Warranty Cards, engraving of case backs and similar activity supposedly undertaken by Rolex and their AD's to help combat the rise and rise of the grey market!


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[topfuel25]

no doubt I agree that greys/flippers with hoarding and premium should go....so I support the new AD procedures

[amh]

How about this simple rule for ADs: "Thou shalt not keep lists, or keep stock in the safe."

- Everyone would be on equal footing, essentially "first come, first served"
- The grey market would be subdued since people are able to buy more quickly from ADs

It would be difficult to enforce I suppose, but I don't know how Rolex enforces some of the current rules either (eg. ripping off stickers.) (Rolex Gestapo?)

[cht]

Originally Posted by khunpepe

Last week I just picked up my Deep Sea D Blue from AD which I put some deposit for.

I would like to share my story in this regards.
About three weeks ago I stopped to have a look at an AD in BKK, they claimed they are no.1 so I asked for Deepsea D Blue sales rep said no we haven’t got one
She sadi “Would you like to put your name on a waiting list”
I said yes and was told that the wait could be a couple of months to six months as I was 4-5 on the list.
She informed me on the price, and yes it has premium on it.
We chatted for a while and I asked her about this practice of bundling and price at a premium. The answers she gave me were quite interesting.
She said we only offered the hot items to selected customers, only to those who we feel are ok with the price. To the local yes, and to some tourists from mainland China.
To western tourists we just say we are out of stock.
We chatted for a while longer as I wanted her to know that I was serious about buying before I walked out.
The next day I received a call from her and she said the watch just arrived today.
I asked what happened to 4-5 guys before me. They are not ready she said.
I told her that I won’t be in BKK for another month so will you be willing to wait.
She said put down 10% deposit and she can hold the watch until the end of February.
So everything worked out and I have a D Blue on my wrist.


My lessons from this purchase are as follow
1. Go in express your intention to buy
Most people go in do you have this xxx xxx xxx models? How much is it? Then walk out
2. Sit down and spend sometime knowing your sales rep
They are the one who decide who gets the watch. They are trained to judge you.
If they think you are serious then you will pass the test
3. Ask to be put on the list
4. Ask for the contact details of your sales rep
Build personal relationships with your sales rep, drop in to say hi, text to ask for other models every once in a while
5. Always be ready to pull the trigger
Act fast, the watch will not be put on reserve for long, once you get a call get to the AD as fast as you can

To sum up, I personally don’t like this kind of practice, but I don’t travel overseas a lot. And sometimes finding the watch at grey dealers are not that easy. For Deep sea D Blue, grey dealers will offer one at RRP so price at AD therefore will carry premiums. All ADs in the country do the same so you either take it or leave it.

Originally Posted by No SUBctitute

What I see above is a brilliant salesperson. It looks like ten steps to maximizing profit from the customer.

Did it ever occur to you that there is another forum call "rolexADforums" and the salesperson posted the below after you bought the watch:

"This guy came in looking for a DeepSea Blue like many others have. But when customers come in to look at it they don't always buy. And, if they do, its hard getting them to buy at a premium. So, I figured out a sales method which is more likely to result in a sale, and at a premium price!

I told the customer we didn't have any but that I could put his name on a list. At the point he said "yes" I began to smile because I realized I likely just made a sale at a premium price of a watch I have in the back safe. After he said he wanted to be on the list, I told him it would be months and months before I had one for him, as there were 4-5 people on the list ahead of him. Then I told him the price, which was above list price. He was so happy that he got on the "list" and that he might get the chance to buy one in many months that he didn't even blink at the price. In order to increase the likelihood that he will pull the trigger when I later tell him I had a watch for him, I then reminded him that we only offer hot models like this to select customers. I could tell by his reaction that he was grateful I was offering a hot model to him.

The next day I called the customer to tell him that the hot watch he wanted which we didn't have in stock had magically come in. Additionally, I let him know that lucky for him the others on the waiting list were not ready to buy yet, thus he could buy it immediately. He told me he couldn't come in for a couple months, and I told him to just give me a 10% downpayment and I would hold it for him. Thankfully, he didn't wonder why I was so willing to hold for months for him an out of stock watch (that I sell at a premium) that has a waiting list of nearly half a dozen people. It feels great whenever I put the extra profit above list price into my pocket!"

That is a brilliant sales job. These salespeople do this for a living and have likely been doing it for years. Not all are this smart, but many are. How likely is it that the very next day that you asked for an out of stock watch one arrived at the store. And then how likely do you think it is that all the others on the waiting list were no longer interested in buying the watch. It is possible that things happened as she said, but it is quite unlikely. These salespeople are cut from the same cloth as car and mattress salespeople. Most everything they tell you is to maximize the amount and speed with which you part with your money. There are some super straight forward AD salesman. There are also many who engage in sales tactics which are misleading or deceitful. Buyer beware!

This is exactly what I was thinking...but as long as the dealer made some great extra money and khunpepe has what he now thinks is some "hot watch" that he enjoys, then I guess everything is ok in the end.

[adg31]

I'm fairly sure that Rolex must know exactly what their AD's do with their watch stock via sales data and Warranty Card receipts.
If a dealer keeps getting stock of supposedly rare models but not submitting Warranty details back to them do we suppose that Rolex would not ask questions - especially when other AD's are crying out for stock of these items?
Although Rolex may not officially sanction it, I can't believe that a business so commercially aware could be kept in the dark about this type of activity.


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[GB-man]

Originally Posted by amh

How about this simple rule for ADs: "Thou shalt not keep lists, or keep stock in the safe."

- Everyone would be on equal footing, essentially "first come, first served"
- The grey market would be subdued since people are able to buy more quickly from ADs

It would be difficult to enforce I suppose, but I don't know how Rolex enforces some of the current rules either (eg. ripping off stickers.) (Rolex Gestapo?)

Nah that would make it easier. Greys would merely need on inside man in each AD to tip the buyers on arrivals and they buyers would hit the store and empty the case.

[amh]

Originally Posted by GB-man

Nah that would make it easier. Greys would merely need on inside man in each AD to tip the buyers on arrivals and they buyers would hit the store and empty the case.

Don't they already do that?

[enjoythemusic]

Originally Posted by amh

Don't they already do that?

Yes. Thus guys who are avid collectors are SOL.

[904VT]

Originally Posted by No SUBctitute

What I see above is a brilliant salesperson. It looks like ten steps to maximizing profit from the customer.

Did it ever occur to you that there is another forum call "rolexADforums" and the salesperson posted the below after you bought the watch:

"This guy came in looking for a DeepSea Blue like many others have. But when customers come in to look at it they don't always buy. And, if they do, its hard getting them to buy at a premium. So, I figured out a sales method which is more likely to result in a sale, and at a premium price!

I told the customer we didn't have any but that I could put his name on a list. At the point he said "yes" I began to smile because I realized I likely just made a sale at a premium price of a watch I have in the back safe. After he said he wanted to be on the list, I told him it would be months and months before I had one for him, as there were 4-5 people on the list ahead of him. Then I told him the price, which was above list price. He was so happy that he got on the "list" and that he might get the chance to buy one in many months that he didn't even blink at the price. In order to increase the likelihood that he will pull the trigger when I later tell him I had a watch for him, I then reminded him that we only offer hot models like this to select customers. I could tell by his reaction that he was grateful I was offering a hot model to him.

The next day I called the customer to tell him that the hot watch he wanted which we didn't have in stock had magically come in. Additionally, I let him know that lucky for him the others on the waiting list were not ready to buy yet, thus he could buy it immediately. He told me he couldn't come in for a couple months, and I told him to just give me a 10% downpayment and I would hold it for him. Thankfully, he didn't wonder why I was so willing to hold for months for him an out of stock watch (that I sell at a premium) that has a waiting list of nearly half a dozen people. It feels great whenever I put the extra profit above list price into my pocket!"

That is a brilliant sales job. These salespeople do this for a living and have likely been doing it for years. Not all are this smart, but many are. How likely is it that the very next day that you asked for an out of stock watch one arrived at the store. And then how likely do you think it is that all the others on the waiting list were no longer interested in buying the watch. It is possible that things happened as she said, but it is quite unlikely. These salespeople are cut from the same cloth as car and mattress salespeople. Most everything they tell you is to maximize the amount and speed with which you part with your money. There are some super straight forward AD salesman. There are also many who engage in sales tactics which are misleading or deceitful. Buyer beware!

I'm so not sure. I'd strongly disagree here with the methods being brilliant. I'd call this scum selling as required by low-skilled salespeople. It doesn't take much talent to make a sale via lying to customers. If this was my AD, the employee would be fired on the spot. Being successful at selling high-end, luxury goods over the long-run, demands knowledgeable, customer-service focused sales reps.

No repeat customers with this method. Certainly no integrity. If the salesperson is on these forums, I'd love to see them disclose which AD they work for. Guarantee it won't happen.

This very practice, artificially manipulates markets and contributes to ADs being able to sell watches out the backdoor at a premium. If they didn't, we would all be able to access more of the watches we want from our ADs at MRSP. They are creating artificial demand that was never there to begin with in a thinly veiled attempt to make some extra money i.e. more than Rolex says they should sell at. Btw, ADs make considerable margins as it is, so I have no compassion.

[skates]

If an authorized dealer told me I had to buy another watch or 2 to get a daytona Id do it any day of the week! Vip and clients who purchased often get first dibs in any business. Do anyone have access to a reasonable price daytona?