The game has really changed

[4srolex]

My buddy bought the 1st Daytona C at this AD. He got the call on 12-24-16 and was out of town so I had to pick it up for him because the watch had to be bought in store and he could not give his credit card number over the phone. I asked today what it would take to buy a white dial 116500 and was told I would get preference if I bought another watch but it would not guarantee me a SS Daytona. He told me with a straight face times have changed and that’s what it would take to get a white dial 116500. I gave him the same straight face and told him get me a D Blue and White dial 116500 at the same time and we have a deal. I think Rolex is really missing the boat with the allocation issue with SS sport watches and alienating their customers. I feel like my money is no good with Rolex with the current condition. I really miss the days where you could walk into an AD and get the watch that you wanted without all the mandated stipulations.


I’ve always liked the 116515 and was able to try on the Oysterflex version. This AD had a Sub ND and Sub Date on display so they had some inventory of SS sport watches.


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[Clay]

That's why I buy used...

[DoctorA]

Had A very similar experience the other day! It’s plaguing all ADs I guess!!

[bbressler]

Forget about the 116500/deep blue and get that 116515!

[iLLGT2]

get into PM rolex and you'll forget all about steel lol

[101031-28]

Originally Posted by bbressler

Forget about the 116500/deep blue and get that 116515!

+1

[DCheeta]

The game has certainly changed dramatically in just the past year. Hell, six months. I’ve seen white Daytonas for sale for over $20,000. 20! It’s crazy.

Truth be told, I like the new gold Daytonas on Oysterflex more than the SS versions. Grab that bad boy!

[Lol-x]

Rolex doesn't realise that if it cuts supply, as it has, it will result in people ultimately going to other watch brands to scratch that itch.

[desertyank]

Originally Posted by 4srolex

My buddy bought the 1st Daytona C at this AD. He got the call on 12-24-16 and was out of town so I had to pick it up for him because the watch had to be bought in store and he could not give his credit card number over the phone. I asked today what it would take to buy a white dial 116500 and was told I would get preference if I bought another watch but it would not guarantee me a SS Daytona. He told me with a straight face times have changed and that’s what it would take to get a white dial 116500. I gave him the same straight face and told him get me a D Blue and White dial 116500 at the same time and we have a deal. I think Rolex is really missing the boat with the allocation issue with SS sport watches and alienating their customers. I feel like my money is no good with Rolex with the current condition. I really miss the days where you could walk into an AD and get the watch that you wanted without all the mandated stipulations.


I’ve always liked the 116515 and was able to try on the Oysterflex version. This AD had a Sub ND and Sub Date on display so they had some inventory of SS sport watches.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Just curious what his response to this was :

I gave him the same straight face and told him get me a D Blue and White dial 116500 at the same time and we have a deal.

[GB-man]

Yeah times have changed. If you don't have a connection wait it out.

[Chadridv]

Originally Posted by 4srolex

I really miss the days where you could walk into an AD and get the watch that you wanted without all the mandated stipulations.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I totally hear ya, but you’d have to go back probably 15-20 years to be able to walk into an AD and buy a SS Daytona.

I feel like those have have been hard to get for a while now.

[HogwldFLTR]

So much cheaper to buy a grey Daytona then to have to ante up for the additional piece. (unless of course you plan on buying that model anyway)

[soundserious]

When was the day you could walk into an AD and get a steel Daytona? 1983?

[henrylee]

Originally Posted by Lol-x

Rolex doesn't realise that if it cuts supply, as it has, it will result in people ultimately going to other watch brands to scratch that itch.

Yea I've been interested in Omegas and IWC's lately. They lost my business and my friends. Will be growing my watch collections with Omegas, IWC, and more Seikos.

[RolexNorth]

I was at a very well known grey market dealer in my city the other day and he's been in business for over 20 years selling Rolex, Patek, AP, you name it. He said to me point blank that this new road that Rolex is on couldn't be better for his business. He's making a killing selling over priced models because Rolex refuses to stock their authorized dealers better. He was wearing the SS SkyD with blue dial. He handed it to me to look at it. A real nice watch. He had 2 guys come in to his shop who saw him wearing it offering him in excess of $30,000 for the watch!!!! This is a model listed at around $15,000 on the Rolex website!!! He doesn't want to sell it. In anycase, he's got EVERYTHING in demand in his display. White dialled ceramic Daytona $27,000, SD43 $18,000, BLNR $13,999 for which a dude from Florida was flying into the city just to buy it, $15,000 for a Hulk, it goes on and on. He had people in his store on Saturday morning. I walked over to an official Rolex AD a block away and there was nobody in the store looking at their Rolex's.

He told me he can get me anything. Including Patek Nautilus, etc. He just told me if you want something, give me a couple weeks and I'll have it for you.

Rolex's attempt to stifle the grey market by removing stickers and not honouring 5 year warrantees is a moot point.

[HogwldFLTR]

Originally Posted by Lol-x

Rolex doesn't realise that if it cuts supply, as it has, it will result in people ultimately going to other watch brands to scratch that itch.

Well, I really like my quirky Mark II co-axial. I find it more useful than my Daytona. Its water resistance is the same. Its tachymeter glows in the dark. It doesn't have screw downs on the push button activators. The bracelet is easily adjustable similar to Subs. And it has a date. Essentially the same as the other Speedys but I like the style more. Oh, it's a lot cheaper than the Daytona as well. I got the Daytona before the Mark II. I had to own a Daytona but it really is replaceable, imho.

[mahefa]

Rolex has a benefit of being by far the most robust and durable automatic watch together with Seiko. Patek and AP are complete jokes in that sense, althought beautiful watches.

Truth is that these days products which are not scarce or hard to get, will lose resale value. Back in the days global watch market information was not available in seconds, like it is now. I value high quality product and good resale value. If every Rolex would be available like Casios, the resale value would be like Casios.

It is very simple.

[rallyx]

Originally Posted by henrylee

Yea I've been interested in Omegas and IWC's lately. They lost my business and my friends. Will be growing my watch collections with Omegas, IWC, and more Seikos.

Yep, let's all take our business to other brands. I'm sure that'll learn'em.

[mahefa]

Originally Posted by henrylee

Yea I've been interested in Omegas and IWC's lately. They lost my business and my friends. Will be growing my watch collections with Omegas, IWC, and more Seikos.

I think i will go with Seiko too. I do not abandon Rolex, but some Seiko models really interest me. Unfortunately can’t buy these brands as new ones, as their resale value melts very very quickly.

[GB-man]

Originally Posted by soundserious

When was the day you could walk into an AD and get a steel Daytona? 1983?

May 2015 for me. I passed on a white 116520 because they were not discounting beyond 3% and they were going for less on here.

[4srolex]

He was surprised at my quick retort that I wanted a D Blue and White Dial Daytona because both of the watches are hard to get. I would have bought both watches on the spot if he took it out from the back safe.

Originally Posted by desertyank

Just curious what his response to this was :

I gave him the same straight face and told him get me a D Blue and White dial 116500 at the same time and we have a deal.

I have never had a problem sourcing a Rolex, you could always get on a list and know you would be called when inventory came in. I was offered a White dial 116520 from my AD when I told him I wanted one. He brought it out for me but I couldn't read the sub dials so I passed.

Originally Posted by Chadridv

I totally hear ya, but you’d have to go back probably 15-20 years to be able to walk into an AD and buy a SS Daytona.

I feel like those have have been hard to get for a while now.

I was offered a 5712 back in April 2016 for 30K and some change OTD. The AD's couldn't give them away. Now they are selling for 42K by the Greys. When I say the game has changed, it really has - I sold a BNIB Black dial and a White dial 116500 at the end of the year thinking I could upgrade to a 5712. No Patek AD will even put my name on a list so it's not only Rolex but PP that are changing the landscape. If Seinfeld had an episode on watches, I would be hearing the current sentiments of " NO Watch for You! "

Originally Posted by RolexNorth

I was at a very well known grey market dealer in my city the other day and he's been in business for over 20 years selling Rolex, Patek, AP, you name it. He said to me point blank that this new road that Rolex is on couldn't be better for his business. He's making a killing selling over priced models because Rolex refuses to stock their authorized dealers better. He was wearing the SS SkyD with blue dial. He handed it to me to look at it. A real nice watch. He had 2 guys come in to his shop who saw him wearing it offering him in excess of $30,000 for the watch!!!! This is a model listed at around $15,000 on the Rolex website!!! He doesn't want to sell it. In anycase, he's got EVERYTHING in demand in his display. White dialled ceramic Daytona $27,000, SD43 $18,000, BLNR $13,999 for which a dude from Florida was flying into the city just to buy it, $15,000 for a Hulk, it goes on and on. He had people in his store on Saturday morning. I walked over to an official Rolex AD a block away and there was nobody in the store looking at their Rolex's.

He told me he can get me anything. Including Patek Nautilus, etc. He just told me if you want something, give me a couple weeks and I'll have it for you.

Rolex's attempt to stifle the grey market by removing stickers and not honouring 5 year warrantees is a moot point.

[tyler1980]

Originally Posted by Lol-x

Rolex doesn't realise that if it cuts supply, as it has, it will result in people ultimately going to other watch brands to scratch that itch.

i agree... or it will push people into the PM daytona on OF. I prefer those to the SS anyway. Its easier to justify for sure when factoring in secondary pricing for the SS and actual availability at an AD. Thats what Rolex is trying to get people to do, but its dangerous as it could backfire as you suggested.

[Chewbacca]

the new CEO must be loving this.

At zenith, he couldn't give away a $7k Chrono without diving from space.

Here, he's flipping a coin to decide on where to send watches and whether there'll be a 10 or 20pct price increase.

No one else to blame but management incompetence when you trumpet advantages of vertically integrated benefits for the manufacturer and consumer and this is the result.

[Chadridv]

Originally Posted by 4srolex;

I was offered a 5712 back in April 2016 for 30K and some change OTD. The AD's couldn't give them away. Now they are selling for 42K by the Greys. When I say the game has changed, it really has - I sold a BNIB Black dial and a White dial 116500 at the end of the year thinking I could upgrade to a 5712. No Patek AD will even put my name on a list so it's not only Rolex but PP that are changing the landscape. If Seinfeld had an episode on watches, I would be hearing the current sentiments of " NO Watch for You! "

Haha, that is an appropriate reference. You have a product, you’re in the business of making money, I have money and want to give it to you. Please take my money!!! Lol.

But I was talking about Daytonas, not Pateks. I thought you were talking about Daytona’s too. I don’t know enough about Patek to really comment on whether or not the “game has changed”.

As far as Daytona’s go though, like I said, they’ve been hard to get for a long time. Perhaps they’re harder than ever to get, but it’s not a totally different game IMO, at when talking about the past 15-29 years.

Edit: just realized your response was toward someone else, I read it cause it was directly under my quote. So what you said about the 116520. Anyhow, I hear ya. The 116520 was definitely easier to get than the 116500, but more toward the end of its run.

[tyler1980]

Originally Posted by 4srolex

H



I was offered a 5712 back in April 2016 for 30K and some change OTD. The AD's couldn't give them away. Now they are selling for 42K by the Greys. When I say the game has changed, it really has - I sold a BNIB Black dial and a White dial 116500 at the end of the year thinking I could upgrade to a 5712. No Patek AD will even put my name on a list so it's not only Rolex but PP that are changing the landscape. If Seinfeld had an episode on watches, I would be hearing the current sentiments of " NO Watch for You! "

I agree Patek is also hard, but i would not compare to Rolex mainly because of production volume. Rolex makes more watches per year than Patek has in their entire history, or it least its in the ballpark. The mass production scale of Rolex is massive, and granted there are more buyers for Rolex, but they also have the capacity where as i dont think Patek does to the same extent.

Its competing for a scarce watch vs competing for an artificially scarce watch. Both limit production below demand, obviously, but Rolex has taken it to a new level. Those Pateks would be scarce regardless in the current market, even if they made more. I bet they could sell 50,000 a year no problem and thats their annual total production.

[4srolex]

I was talking about Rolex too. I have always been able to buy any model if I wanted it but now it's hard to buy one even if you have the money because there is no inventory. When the 116500 were announced, you could put your name on a list and eventually get one. Try putting your name on a list on the 116500 today, it's not going to happen because the list is so long AD's are not going to do it. The AD told me my BLNR is really hard to get now because of the inventory constraints. I kind of feel bad for the AD and the potential customers who have the money to buy a watch but can't acquire one. It's the FOMO effect- fear of missing out.

Originally Posted by Chadridv

Haha, that is an appropriate reference. You have a product, you’re in the business of making money, I have money and want to give it to you. Please take my money!!! Lol.

But I was talking about Daytonas, not Pateks. I thought you were talking about Daytona’s too. I don’t know enough about Patek to really comment on whether or not the “game has changed”.

As far as Daytona’s go though, like I said, they’ve been hard to get for a long time. Perhaps they’re harder than ever to get, but it’s not a totally different game IMO, at when talking about the past 15-29 years.

Edit: just realized your response was toward someone else, I read it cause it was directly under my quote. So what you said about the 116520. Anyhow, I hear ya. The 116520 was definitely easier to get than the 116500, but more toward the end of its run.

[Ichiran]

Originally Posted by 4srolex

I was talking about Rolex too. I have always been able to buy any model if I wanted it but now it's hard to buy one even if you have the money because there is no inventory. When the 116500 were announced, you could put your name on a list and eventually get one. Try putting your name on a list on the 116500 today, it's not going to happen because the list is so long AD's are not going to do it. The AD told me my BLNR is really hard to get now because of the inventory constraints. I kind of feel bad for the AD and the potential customers who have the money to buy a watch but can't acquire one. It's the FOMO effect- fear of missing out.

They kept all these 500c, hulk, batman and SS Skydweller in their fireproof vaults. They are all there, but not for simple-sale.

[topfuel25]

Originally Posted by Ichiran

They kept all these 500c, hulk, batman and SS Skydweller in their fireproof vaults. They are all there, but not for simple-sale.

you aren't suppose to know or reveal this

[joli160]

Originally Posted by Lol-x

Rolex doesn't realise that if it cuts supply, as it has, it will result in people ultimately going to other watch brands to scratch that itch.

Or it makes certain models even more desirable as we see what is happening in todays market

[HL65]

Originally Posted by joli160

Or it makes certain models even more desirable as we see what is happening in todays market

Scarcity always creates demand. I promise you if it was the opposite and Rolex was flooding the market with sought after watches and values were not holding people would complain about how Rolex resale stinks.

PS Go try to buy a Patek 5711 or AP 15202 and let me know how that works for you. The top watch houses are all experiencing the same thing. The most sought after pieces are much more difficult to get thus the massive premiums in secondary market. So if one wants to get watches readily available you can you just won't get the models everyone wants!

Best advice: Build a solid relationship with an AD and you will get watches you want. I have gotten every hot Rolex from my AD over the years by being a long term loyal client. For the record and as an owner of Rolex I love what management is doing to protect the brand and build solid value. So the game is the game either figure out a way to play it and win or find another game.